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  1. #1

    Monkey's audio APE format is not searchable?

    Dear friends, i am new to LMS and like it after 1 month usage, but noticed a small problem:
    I have a lot of "one image" ape files, the system plays them correctly, but can't search in it. If i try to search, the playing jumps to the start position. (the same problem is come, when i try to skip tracks in "cuesheet + one ape file" albums.
    I miss something, or is this a known issue?

    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Do you use the artist or album menu or "music folder" music folder does not work really well with any kind of cue + file .

    Even if it is not a known issue ,given that the development is pretty slow/dead re the server software ,the viable solution is to adopt a format with better support in the server .

    Flac + cue or better a separate track per song flac .

    As ape is lossles conversion should go without any losses in sound quality .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  3. #3
    Dear Mnyb
    Thank you for quick reply.
    I tried in album, and music folder mode too. I believe, it is not cuesheet related problem, because in album mode, the individual tracks with correct metadata displayed (it came from the cue file).

    It is simply can't do random time-positioning in one file. (ape)

    With other formats (wav,flac,mp3,ogg) working perfectly.

    My setup:
    Server: Debian Linux, Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.2 - r33893

    Client: Player Model: Squeezeslave, Firmware: 7 and Player Model: SqueezePlay Firmware: 7.8.0-r0 (same problem in both, so it is a server side issue)

    Thanks for tips to convert ape to flac, i'm sure that this would be a solution, just can't imagine, why this is not working with ape.
    I prefer one big file with albums, it has the original gaps and structure as it was on the original media.
    (With ape, i often use embedded cuesheet and album art too)


    Thanks!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    The whole discussion seems familiar , I just cant find the tread or bug report about it I know it is there somewhere ? Fyi LMS seems to use mac version 3.99 not exactly spanking new , but i bet there are some custom changes to it as usual with LMS help binaries

    Flac also works with embedded cue (not that i use it ) gapless should still work with separate files btw .

    But maybe some of the cue sheet users have an idea ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  5. #5
    Former Squeezebox Guy andyg's Avatar
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    You can't seek in APE files because the binary decoder we use does not support it. There is no good reason to use this esoteric format and you would be better off doing a 1-time bulk conversion to FLAC.

  6. #6
    Dear andyg & Mnyb

    Thanks for reply

    I noticed, that mac v.:3.99 is a bit outdated, so i tried 4.11 version based on this site:

    http://code.google.com/p/opensourcel...wiki/MACDebian

    Replaced the original 3.99 mac binary to 4.11, but the same problem still exist.
    So the newer mac version still don't have the absolute time positioning "feature" ?!
    (or automatically disabled in LMS for ape file types?)

    It is so interesting, because the ver.: 3.89 beta has the following feature:

    "Added sample-perfect seeking (can seek precisely to any sample)"

    according to:
    http://www.monkeysaudio.com/versionhistory.html

    Thank You!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickeyratt View Post
    Dear andyg & Mnyb

    Thanks for reply

    I noticed, that mac v.:3.99 is a bit outdated, so i tried 4.11 version based on this site:

    http://code.google.com/p/opensourcel...wiki/MACDebian

    Replaced the original 3.99 mac binary to 4.11, but the same problem still exist.
    So the newer mac version still don't have the absolute time positioning "feature" ?!
    (or automatically disabled in LMS for ape file types?)

    It is so interesting, because the ver.: 3.89 beta has the following feature:

    "Added sample-perfect seeking (can seek precisely to any sample)"

    according to:
    http://www.monkeysaudio.com/versionhistory.html

    Thank You!
    Hmm I still suggest using the provided mac binary it could have some slim devices provided patches .

    If you convert to flac you get some more benefits .

    Native support on the player ,as of now the server using the mac binary to transcode as the players themselves don't support ape so cpu use go down by a magnitude (yes the transcoders usually use much more cpu than the whole server ).
    Well known and well supported format and god tag support , including replaygain ? I don't know but hydrogen audio claims that rg tags don't work with ape , but i would not know as this is a feature i don't use .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  8. #8
    Former Squeezebox Guy andyg's Avatar
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    Seeking would need to be added to the convert.conf entry for ape (see faad's entry for an example of how it's done with $START$ and $END$). 3.99 didn't have any command-line seeking options and from what I can tell 4.11 doesn't either, so you may be in for a large amount of hacking if you really want to implement this.

    BTW the build we ship is not modified with any custom changes, and technically APE isn't even really an open source project anyway... From Wikipedia:

    While the license text claims to permit using the official Monkey's Audio codec in GPL projects, several Linux distribution maintainers have found the license to be contradictory. It does not permit redistribution or modification, and thus is not considered open source or free software.
    These poor Gentoo guys made a valiant effort to figure out the license but eventually gave up: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94477 Maybe we shouldn't even be distributing binaries and should just remove all support...

    APE sucks, my advice is to just give up on this old format and use FLAC for all the reasons previously mentioned. If you need another good reason:

    Monkey's Audio main drawbacks are the fact that it employs a symmetric algorithm, meaning the decoding takes comparable resources to encoding

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyg View Post
    Seeking would need to be added to the convert.conf entry for ape (see faad's entry for an example of how it's done with $START$ and $END$). 3.99 didn't have any command-line seeking options and from what I can tell 4.11 doesn't either, so you may be in for a large amount of hacking if you really want to implement this.

    BTW the build we ship is not modified with any custom changes, and technically APE isn't even really an open source project anyway... From Wikipedia:



    These poor Gentoo guys made a valiant effort to figure out the license but eventually gave up: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94477 Maybe we shouldn't even be distributing binaries and should just remove all support...

    APE sucks, my advice is to just give up on this old format and use FLAC for all the reasons previously mentioned. If you need another good reason:
    Interesting read , I've remember we had this debate before but could not fin the tread or the bug about it ? This format is clearly redundant, with this kind of license even more so . There are to many audio file formats, consumers only need to two a lossy and lossless one .
    If some one could convince apple to support flac (at gunpoint i assume ) it will be done shortly .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  10. #10
    Thank You all for valuable answers.
    If i will have a lot of time someday, i will play to include ffmpeg in convert.conf.
    (ffmpeg is used in MPD, which also has ape support)

    For me, the main reason to best to avoid ape is:
    "Monkey's Audio main drawbacks are the fact that it employs a symmetric algorithm, meaning the decoding takes comparable resources to encoding" -thanks to andyg!

    So i started convert my ape files to flac

    Thanks again!

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