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  1. #561
    Member wcndave's Avatar
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    Just heard the news...

    few comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    don't panic. All your stuff will still work. .... The only current issue I see is that the future hardware might not be compatible with existing hardware. In terms of LMS and your own music. This can work forever without logitech's intervention.
    As noted elsewhere I think, this means never upgrading. My Synology NAS has a "click and install" LMS, I use my NAS for lots of other things. I now need to get a new one, only for music, and never upgrade it or patch security holes etc... not great solution, but will have to be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > Does this mean that in the event of one's internet connection going down
    > (which used to happen frequently when I was with my former ISP, the major UK ISP), the UE Radio cannot be controlled to play locally stored music?


    Yes, that's true.
    Really bad. I have a very very flakey connection indeed in the mountains of Italy and this means my whole house music system would not work.

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    The trend, whether you and I like it or not, is online streaming. The collector who has thousands (I'm not even talking about tens of thousands!) of tracks on his disc and prefers to manage them over using an online stereaming service is a dieing breed.
    Not sure I agree, the biggest untapped segment will be the "non techies and non-early adopters" who have hundreds of CDs and decide that it's now probably time to embrace music stored centrally somehow and want a fairly decent quality solution.

    I think the reason this never got mainstream was i) no end to end process, including the ripping, for legal reasons, and ii) they could not make the interfaces / setup idiot proof.

    Here's what I see the needs to be source wise:

    1. Local music ripped and stored on PC / NAS
    2. Listen to Internet Radio
    3. Listen through services like LastFM
    4. Upload your collection online so you always have it wherever you are

    Then you have "how" we listen

    A) living room stereo "high end"
    B) kitchen / bedroom style booms
    C) On computer
    D) Mobile Players

    Let's compare old and new on this basis


    1A SB: perfect with transporter / touch / classic
    1A UE: Not available
    1B SB: Perfect, no internet required, no lag
    1B UE: Available but flawed.. can i plug a subwoofer in like i do now in kitchen boom?
    1C SB: Easy if you want this
    1C UE: Not seen anything that suggests one can do this - use winamp again?
    1D SB: Not available
    1D UE: Still not available

    ---- SB ------ UE ----
    2A - yes ---- no
    2B - yes ---- yes
    2C - yes ---- no?

    3A --- yes--- no
    3B --- yes --- yes
    3C --- why? --no?

    4A/B/C/D - no -- still no

    which means we lose a load of stuff, and do not gain any significant killer features like online collection to mobile devices or something...

    in addition a proportion like to have a dedicated touch / duet controller setup at least to go with their hi-fi living room setup, and that is now relegated to mobile apps.
    my kids won't have smartphones for another 5-6 years....

    all in all doing a market analysis of the needs versus the products does not seem to have been high on their list...

    oh and i see the touch is no $700+ in US, and i cannot find them in Italy / UK for much less than ú350, so I have found out about this a few months too late :'(

  2. #562
    Senior Member agillis's Avatar
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    At this point you need to shell out $700 or build your own!

    http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...t-for-under-30
    rip, tag, get cover artů All you do is insert the CD!
    http://vortexbox.org

    agillis
    Lead Developer VortexBox

  3. #563
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcndave View Post
    Here's what I see the needs to be source wise:

    1. Local music ripped and stored on PC / NAS
    2. Listen to Internet Radio
    3. Listen through services like LastFM
    4. Upload your collection online so you always have it wherever you are

    Then you have "how" we listen

    A) living room stereo "high end"
    B) kitchen / bedroom style booms
    C) On computer
    D) Mobile Players

    ...

    which means we lose a load of stuff, and do not gain any significant killer features like online collection to mobile devices or something...

    ..

    all in all doing a market analysis of the needs versus the products does not seem to have been high on their list...
    UE Smart Radio isn't designed for people like you, as you have already noticed, it's not even designed for people who listen to premium online streaming services. IMHO, the control interface is designed for people who listen to 10-20 different internet radio stations and these people don't care much about the audio quality and most of them doesn't have an amplifier in their living room so A and B is the same and C is what they are searching a replacement for, so it's really only D that's missing but I'm honestly not sure these users even want D and if they do they just use their smart phone (if they have one). So as long as 2B is a "yes" in your example Logitech has successfully provided what their target user for UE Smart Radio is interested in. The question is just how big the 2B user category is, even if most of us doesn't think there are a lot of users who are only interested in 2B it might be bigger than we think among the masses, it wouldn't surprise me if the most common Squeezebox user today owns a single Squeezebox Radio.

    So I think it's important to realize that UE Smart Radio isn't a Squeezebox and it will never be a Squeezebox (unless you manually downgrade it to Squeezebox firmware), it's an internet radio device with some premium features. Unfortunately the current price is not set according to an internet radio, it's set for a Squeezebox kind of device, which probably means that there are currently a limited amount of people who really loves it. I suspect the users who only needs something for the 2B category really is looking for devices at $99 and below.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Lead platform developer of ickStream Music Platform - A world of music at your fingertips

    (Also developer of many plugins/applets)

  4. #564
    With iPeng on iOS you get a mobile player as an optional in-app purchase. Works really well. There is also iPeng UE, but I'm not sure it also has this feature. http://penguinlovesmusic.de/ipeng-th...squeezecenter/

  5. #565
    Member wcndave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    UE Smart Radio isn't designed for people like you... So as long as 2B is a "yes" in your example Logitech has successfully provided what their target user for UE Smart Radio is interested in....Smart Radio isn't a Squeezebox and it will never be a Squeezebox (unless you manually downgrade it to Squeezebox firmware), it's an internet radio device with some premium features. Unfortunately the current price is not set according to an internet radio, it's set for a Squeezebox kind of device, which probably means that there are currently a limited amount of people who really loves it. I suspect the users who only needs something for the 2B category really is looking for devices at $99 and below.
    Yes, i suppose that was my point.

    Before you had a range of device that covered everything from high range audiophiles to CD collectors, to something to do the washing up to.

    Some posters were saying some categories don't exist much anymore, however i suspect that the latter two are both high growth potential, and Squeeze was the only one that handled them all in a complete house system.

    Therefore reducing the range to the one item that the kind of people who frequent this forum will care about the least is a real shame...

    I am building a and was waiting until then to get a couple of booms, and 2 or 3 touches, however I am not left with no real options :-(

  6. #566
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichieB View Post
    With iPeng on iOS you get a mobile player as an optional in-app purchase. Works really well. There is also iPeng UE, but I'm not sure it also has this feature. http://penguinlovesmusic.de/ipeng-th...squeezecenter/
    iPeng UE currently does NOT have the playback feature and I don't know if it ever will.

    Other than with the Squeezebox, a UE player can't work entirely locally but needs to use the uesmartradio.com infrastructure and at least for MySqueezebox.com Logitech explicitly disallowed that.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

  7. #567
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcndave View Post
    Some posters were saying some categories don't exist much anymore, however i suspect that the latter two are both high growth potential, and Squeeze was the only one that handled them all in a complete house system.

    Therefore reducing the range to the one item that the kind of people who frequent this forum will care about the least is a real shame...
    Yes, the people on this forum is no longer the ones Logitech want to sell UE Smart Radio to. We are music enthusiasts and that's no longer Logitech's main target.

    Quote Originally Posted by wcndave View Post
    I am building a and was waiting until then to get a couple of booms, and 2 or 3 touches, however I am not left with no real options :-(
    You can probably get used ones on eBay and similar sites, but I understand your frustration, we all feel more or less exactly the same.

    However, if you aren't in a urgent need, I would just wait, I'm sure some company eventually decides to take advantage of the market segment Logitech no longer is interested in. Developing new products will take a bit of time, so for any company that started to develop new products just after Logitech stopped selling Squeezebox it's likely going to take at least another 6-12 months before the products are ready to be released on the market.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Lead platform developer of ickStream Music Platform - A world of music at your fingertips

    (Also developer of many plugins/applets)

  8. #568
    Senior Member maggior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    Yes, the people on this forum is no longer the ones Logitech want to sell UE Smart Radio to. We are music enthusiasts and that's no longer Logitech's main target.


    You can probably get used ones on eBay and similar sites, but I understand your frustration, we all feel more or less exactly the same.

    However, if you aren't in a urgent need, I would just wait, I'm sure some company eventually decides to take advantage of the market segment Logitech no longer is interested in. Developing new products will take a bit of time, so for any company that started to develop new products just after Logitech stopped selling Squeezebox it's likely going to take at least another 6-12 months before the products are ready to be released on the market.
    Even used on eBay at this point will command a good price I believe. I'm fortunate to have built out my system for my needs before the bottom dropped out. Though I almost missed out on Booms because when I needed my last one, I had to resort to eBay. I work with a few guys that have Booms (partly on my suggestion) and were dumbfounded when they heard they were discontinued. The love 'em!

    Though more expensive and perhaps not available where you are, there is Sonos. You can use Andoid and iPhone/iPod to control them, or you can purchase their dedicated controller.

    I wonder if the niche is big enough to support both Sonos and the gap left by Logitech? We'll find out over the next year I think.
    Rich
    ---------
    Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 Duet, 1 Receiver, 1 Touch, iPeng on iPod Touch, SqueezeCommander, OrangeSqueeze, and SqueezePlayer on Xoom and Galaxy Player 4.2. CentOS 6.3 Server running LogitechMediaServer 7.7.2 and SqueezeSlave.
    Current library stats: 40,810 songs, 3,153 albums, 582 artists.
    http://www.last.fm/user/maggior

  9. #569
    Member wcndave's Avatar
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    I am not sure that it was just enthusiasts who were dropped here. I would say its anyone who had a decent cd collection, or has a living room stereo and a kitchen/bedroom boombox.

    For me this covers nearly everyone!

    Sonos, there are a few things apart from the price i did not like when last i checked.

    Wireless only? Limited number of files? No server for central mgmt?

    I forget now, however was more than the price.

    I still think they have dropped the millions of ppl who match the above criteria and were ready to go media-less

    The touch sold amazingly well with zero marketing!

  10. #570
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcndave View Post
    I am not sure that it was just enthusiasts who were dropped here. I would say its anyone who had a decent cd collection, or has a living room stereo and a kitchen/bedroom boombox.

    For me this covers nearly everyone!

    Sonos, there are a few things apart from the price i did not like when last i checked.

    Wireless only? Limited number of files? No server for central mgmt?

    I forget now, however was more than the price.

    I still think they have dropped the millions of ppl who match the above criteria and were ready to go media-less

    The touch sold amazingly well with zero marketing!
    Yea apart from the file limit 65k probably less with a lot of tag content (for example music ip analysis and embedded art ) and weird architecture sonos it does not for example support multiple artist tags and it also has a silly limit on the size for cover art
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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