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  1. #21
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Best Bang for buck is integrated Amps , nowadays preamps are not doing much once they had phono section mm and mc tone controls and stuff .

    Input selector and volume can reside in the amp , you may optimise the amp for this and for modest power this can actually be better ! separate pre and power only becomes necessary these days when it's start to outgrow the box with powerful amps.

    Box and PSU cost more than one thinks to do.

    I do not have any experience with big Tanoy speakers thou
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
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    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  2. #22
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    get active speakers.

    they are superior to passive speakers. then go from SB>speakers.

    sorted.

    if you cant do that, I would go with an integrated from a company like Jolida(the 102b is an excellent P/P design) , budget price for good products.
    Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D

    Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctavist View Post
    get active speakers.

    they are superior to passive speakers. then go from SB>speakers.

    sorted.

    if you cant do that, I would go with an integrated from a company like Jolida(the 102b is an excellent P/P design) , budget price for good products.
    I think OP already has a pair of passive Tanoy's
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  4. #24
    Senior Member totoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Best Bang for buck is integrated Amps , nowadays preamps are not doing much once they had phono section mm and mc tone controls and stuff .

    Input selector and volume can reside in the amp , you may optimise the amp for this and for modest power this can actually be better ! separate pre and power only becomes necessary these days when it's start to outgrow the box with powerful amps.

    Box and PSU cost more than one thinks to do.

    I do not have any experience with big Tanoy speakers thou
    But if all you need is passive volume control, you can get a pretty powerful amp with the volume control, and lose nothing (as I keep harping on about). It's hard for me to see a better deal than that.

    If you want a really cool running amp, then one of the class d amps I pointed out would be great. If you don't you can go even cheaper and get something along these lines.

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CZ0RL0/...SIN=B000CZ0RL0
    sb touch -> classdaudio sds-450 -> audio physic tempo 4 + rel storm 3 & rythmik f12se

  5. #25
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaimeclifton View Post
    I have just purchased a SB touch and have been looking around these forums getting very confused about all of the many abbreviations and options.
    My question is simple;
    1. I have a SB touch and a brand new set of Tannoy floor standing speakers. What is the best way of connecting one to the other, in terms of quality of sound. My only source is going to be the SB and im going to stream all of my music via Spotify.
    Obviously im going to need an amp. Does this need to be an intergrated amp or can it just be a power amp as im only using the SB.
    Is the Squeezebox the only source component you are going to use? If the answer is "yes" you could go with the power-amp plus volume control (or attenuators) discussed here, but try to keep it simple.

    If the answer is no, and you might, in the future, be connecting a CD player, DAB radio or other source or want to keep things simple then get a good quality integrated amp.

    Is it best to have an external dac (do you have any dac recommendations under £600) and if so, do i have do disable an option in the SB if I use one.
    Not initially. The Touch already has an excellent internal DAC that you will struggle to better without paying a lot of money. If you are using the analogue RCA plugs there is no need to disable anything. If you are interested in music rather than hi-fi it would be better to spend the money on a few more CDs and keep it simple.

    Philosophical note from somebody who in their 20s had a severe case of "upgraditis" and was living in "tweak hell"; Go to a decent hi-fi dealer with a proper listening room who is prepared to give you some time (I took a day of holiday and did not regret it). Take your speakers (if they don't have your model) and do some blind listening to amplifiers. Pick the one that sounds best in your price range, buy it, plug it in and forget it.

    Don't buy an amplifier, DAC or any other piece of equipment based only on what I, a magazine review, or anybody else tells you without listening to it first - ideally compared to other amps.

    Don't dismiss second hand or ex-demo equipment. I bought my amplifier after a blind listening test. The dealer chucked it into the test saying I had to hear it even though the price was less than half my budget. I did not know what it was before I heard it. It was over 10 years old then and, despite being half the price, it blew anything newer I tried in the same test out of the water. It is still my main amplifier and is now 30 years old!

    What is the best way of connection between the SB to the amp? Simply via phono cables
    If connected to a decent amplifier then the RCA (phono) cables will be fine.

    or should I use a coaxial input if the amp has one and likewise with the dac?
    If you don't get a DAC you can forget the coax output.

    Edit: My story from another thread
    Last edited by TheLastMan; 2012-02-27 at 03:51.
    Matt
    SqueezeBoxes: 3 x piCorePlayers with two Duets, one no longer in active service.
    Server: Synology DS214 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.9.1
    Network: TP-Link Archer VR200 router, 3 x Netgear Orbi WiFi mesh access points (amazing!).
    Livingroom: Duet, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: piCorePlayer, Tibo powered speakers.
    Dining: piCorePlayer, second hand Cambridge amp and speakers.
    Portable: piCorePlayer with LMS and copy music library.

  6. #26
    Senior Member totoro's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMan View Post
    Is the Squeezebox the only source component you are going to use? If the answer is "yes" you could go with the power-amp plus volume control (or attenuators) discussed here, but try to keep it simple.

    If the answer is no, and you might, in the future, be connecting a CD player, DAB radio or other source or want to keep things simple then get a good quality integrated amp.


    Not initially. The Touch already has an excellent internal DAC that you will struggle to better without paying a lot of money. If you are using the analogue RCA plugs there is no need to disable anything. If you are interested in music rather than hi-fi it would be better to spend the money on a few more CDs and keep it simple.

    Philosophical note from somebody who in their 20s had a severe case of "upgraditis" and was living in "tweak hell"; Go to a decent hi-fi dealer with a proper listening room who is prepared to give you some time (I took a day of holiday and did not regret it). Take your speakers (if they don't have your model) and do some blind listening to amplifiers. Pick the one that sounds best in your price range, buy it, plug it in and forget it.

    Don't buy an amplifier, DAC or any other piece of equipment based only on what I, a magazine review, or anybody else tells you without listening to it first - ideally compared to other amps.

    Don't dismiss second hand or ex-demo equipment. I bought my amplifier after a blind listening test. The dealer chucked it into the test saying I had to hear it even though the price was less than half my budget. I did not know what it was before I heard it. It was over 10 years old then and, despite being half the price, it blew anything newer I tried in the same test out of the water. It is still my main amplifier and is now 30 years old!


    If connected to a decent amplifier then the RCA (phono) cables will be fine.

    If you don't get a DAC you can forget the coax output.

    Edit: My story from another thread
    Really nicely summarized.
    sb touch -> classdaudio sds-450 -> audio physic tempo 4 + rel storm 3 & rythmik f12se

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMan View Post
    Is the Squeezebox the only source component you are going to use? If the answer is "yes" you could go with the power-amp plus volume control (or attenuators) discussed here, but try to keep it simple.

    If the answer is no, and you might, in the future, be connecting a CD player, DAB radio or other source or want to keep things simple then get a good quality integrated amp.


    Not initially. The Touch already has an excellent internal DAC that you will struggle to better without paying a lot of money. If you are using the analogue RCA plugs there is no need to disable anything. If you are interested in music rather than hi-fi it would be better to spend the money on a few more CDs and keep it simple.

    Philosophical note from somebody who in their 20s had a severe case of "upgraditis" and was living in "tweak hell"; Go to a decent hi-fi dealer with a proper listening room who is prepared to give you some time (I took a day of holiday and did not regret it). Take your speakers (if they don't have your model) and do some blind listening to amplifiers. Pick the one that sounds best in your price range, buy it, plug it in and forget it.

    Don't buy an amplifier, DAC or any other piece of equipment based only on what I, a magazine review, or anybody else tells you without listening to it first - ideally compared to other amps.

    Don't dismiss second hand or ex-demo equipment. I bought my amplifier after a blind listening test. The dealer chucked it into the test saying I had to hear it even though the price was less than half my budget. I did not know what it was before I heard it. It was over 10 years old then and, despite being half the price, it blew anything newer I tried in the same test out of the water. It is still my main amplifier and is now 30 years old!


    If connected to a decent amplifier then the RCA (phono) cables will be fine.

    If you don't get a DAC you can forget the coax output.

    Edit: My story from another thread
    Some crucial points there: I would add that taking speakers into someone else's room is a no-no: it pays to think of your speakers and room as two components of the same cabinet (which it is!) There's no substitute for listening to equipment in your own room and system, for an extended period of time, not just a 'flash' audition: very often, your opinion of/acclimation to a piece of equipment changes considerably in the first week: I know that it's easy to impress a customer on a quick listen, but the keepers are sometimes those whose merits emerge gradually. Rather like people!

    You basically have to address three questions:
    1. Is it worth it to spend on a better DAC than the one you already have?
    I would suggest that the entry point here is around £150. If you're not into at least that kind of spend, I'd stick with what you have. Similarly, if you're streaming MP3/Spotify or compressed formats, you're already living with a significant compromise, and would want to budget judiciously. However, the DAC is a big factor in the quality of your system, and you might be surprised by how good your Squeezebox can sound driving something exciting.

    2. If you upgrade the DAC to an off-board model, do you shop for one with a volume control?
    If you decide on 'integrated' amplification, then no. If you decide on direct-to-power amplification, or active speakers, yes. A dedicated preamp at this price point is probably a bad idea, too: analog volume controls are expensive to build well, and sound grotty on a budget. The Endler attenuators sound good (and are cheap) but are clunky. There are several pro audio devices that are worth looking into.

    In terms of amplification, everything depends on your budget: there are now several integrated DAC/amplifiers that would give you a one-box solution that plays to the strengths of your Squeezebox (which isn't its analog stage!) On a budget, there's really nothing to touch the speed, value for money and transparency of Tripath amps paired with a good power supply.

    This is a golden age of good, cheap performance, so shop around: get home trials, and be prepared to look off the beaten track for the best deals: high street resellers are generally still peddling solutions from the 1980s from the big monolithic companies.

  8. #28
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    I would buy used you'd get a hell of a lot more amp for your money.

    I was going to mention a (digital) T-Amp possibly a Topping (I have one and it's very good) I also have AudioNote gear too so I come from a good point of reference when saying the Topping sounds good. The "Ice" amp one of the guys posted a link is also very good indeed, As for spending $700 plus on an Arcam FMJ or the likes, thats not what I'd do (I have an Alpha 7r by the way and a 10P) the Alpha 7 is a really superb amp, but I think a T-amp or "Ice" is certainly worth thinking long and hard about, the performance of these types of amps is simply amazing.

    Only a couple of days left on this> was a $1600 amp in its day

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAIM-NAIT-5-...item3a6ff4b973

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proceed-Madr...item256d4b5d98

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bryston-4B-P...item4cfee3dbd6

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/musical-fide...item3a70841c3f

    See, get the idea!
    You can get something worth double or even triple your budget, that will far outperform anything in the NEW $700 category
    Last edited by mashley; 2012-02-28 at 21:04.

  9. #29
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by item_audio View Post
    Some crucial points there: I would add that taking speakers into someone else's room is a no-no: it pays to think of your speakers and room as two components of the same cabinet (which it is!) There's no substitute for listening to equipment in your own room and system, for an extended period of time, not just a 'flash' audition: very often, your opinion of/acclimation to a piece of equipment changes considerably in the first week
    I agree, but I know of no dealer that will let you take home new, boxed, equipment to try. Most are loathe to loan demonstration equipment out to customers as they may need it in the meantime. However, a few will let you buy and then return second hand kit that would otherwise sit on their shelves. The main thing is to build up a decent relationship with a dealer. Far better than saving a few quid by buying discounted stuff on the internet and ending up disappointed.

    Personally I found that my own speakers in the dealer's listening room was a reasonable compromise. Better than listening to the amp via a different brand or model in any case.

    1. Is it worth it to spend on a better DAC than the one you already have?
    He is going to be listening to compressed formats streamed by Spotify. I would be very surprised if any DAC made an appreciable improvement. Different maybe, but better in any really obvious way? I doubt it. However, if he finds a decent dealer he should be able to find that out for himself and not rely on the unreliable opinions of the likes of me!
    Matt
    SqueezeBoxes: 3 x piCorePlayers with two Duets, one no longer in active service.
    Server: Synology DS214 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.9.1
    Network: TP-Link Archer VR200 router, 3 x Netgear Orbi WiFi mesh access points (amazing!).
    Livingroom: Duet, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: piCorePlayer, Tibo powered speakers.
    Dining: piCorePlayer, second hand Cambridge amp and speakers.
    Portable: piCorePlayer with LMS and copy music library.

  10. #30
    pski
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    Quote Originally Posted by totoro View Post
    The volume control in the sb3 was digital and done in software. So yes, attenutators for protection were a really good idea.
    The volume control in ALL the products is digital. My confirmation was that the limit parameter only had an effect on the analog outputs.

    Do attenu-tators turn your 'taters into antenna?

    Thank you in advance for your clarification.

    P

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