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  1. #21
    MrSinatra
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    one question i've wondered over the years is at what point does something a 3rd party does become part of the devs responsibilities?

    i've followed winamp and phpbb and lots of other such projects over the years, and what i notice is the best and most broad 3rd party stuff eventually gets adopted by the main devs so as to remove the responsibility from the orig author, (and uncertainty from users). this doesn't mean its a hostile takeover either, just a recognition that whatever the function it needs to be "official." sometimes the author shares the code, sometimes the devs have to mimic it from scratch.

    and this also doesn't mean it necessarily becomes part of the core app either (tho it could), there are times it remains a plugin or whatever, its just that the main devs takeover providing the function and its development.

    it seems to me that logitech/slim aren't doing that much at all. i'm sure resources is part of it, but then again, winamp and phpbb among others manage it. one reason i don't use very many plugins is precisely because it seems at any moment they can and indeed do become out of date.

    erland asked before for others to take over his tremendous work he's done for free for so long. it seems only obvious to me that plugins that are such necessary extensions to the app be handled by logitech. if i knew that the devs were committed to erlands functions, then i would start using them, but the very real chance they wither and die on the vine is why i don't.

    perhaps this is wild speculation, but i do think that soon they will start selling server as a device, and perhaps that will become the only way to get server updates, or at least, get the newest updates before other channels. if they go to such a solution, i could see where maybe they first concentrate on this new uniform server platform, and then when they have it all seamlessly integrated with mysb.com etc, then they develop APIs for it, as the benchmark for all future work, as well as "take over" or incorporate some of the more popular 3rd party stuff.

    but anyway, i think 3rd party devs would be more gung ho if they felt encouraged and responded to, and if they thought one day their work could be "adopted" by the main devs if successful enough.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post
    Logitech needs to start with some decent developer documentation. Asking people to look at the source or former plugins should be a backup, not the primary mode of information.

    Take some time, document what you want to carry forward, and give your developers a fighting chance.
    Hear, hear!!!! I've often complained (at least to myself) about the complete lack of documentation, and the complete lack of consistency from one version to the next.
    See my plugins at http://www.koldware.com/SlimStuff
    The Synchronizer, GrabPlaylist, ResetVolume, and RemovePlayedSongs
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    SqueezeBox 2 -> Rotel RSX-1056 -> Totem Acoustic Dreamcatchers
    SqueezeBox 3 -> Rotel RX-1052 -> Vandersteen 1B's
    SqueezeBox 1 -> AudioEngine A2's
    SqueezeBox Boom x 2
    SqueezeBox Radio
    SliMP3 -> Retired

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sandee View Post
    I'd like to know what your alternatives are. What company is doing a
    better job? Or what company is even *trying* to do a better job?

    Ben
    None, but if you take away for instance Koldingers Synchronizer plugin then it is very difficult to have some kind synchronisations in a large scale. It is just to much work to synchronise 4 players the standard way, so if that kind of functionality is lost I will switch to Sonos, because they know how to make this work.

    Yes I know I will loose a lot of other functionality provided by plugins, but I will loose that anyway if the third party developers is stopping.
    /Kuben72

    2 Duet, 1 SB3, 1 Boom and 2 Radios

  4. #24
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuben72 View Post
    None, but if you take away for instance Koldingers Synchronizer plugin then it is very difficult to have some kind synchronisations in a large scale. It is just to much work to synchronise 4 players the standard way, so if that kind of functionality is lost I will switch to Sonos, because they know how to make this work.
    Well, you could get yourself an iPod touch and iPeng; which, of course, is 3rd party SW, too. So we're back to square 1...
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

  5. #25
    NOT a Slim Devices Employee kdf's Avatar
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    The end of third party development ?

    kolding wrote:
    > Aesculus;488689 Wrote:
    >
    >> Logitech needs to start with some decent developer documentation.
    >> Asking people to look at the source or former plugins should be a
    >> backup, not the primary mode of information.
    >>
    >> Take some time, document what you want to carry forward, and give your
    >> developers a fighting chance.
    >>

    >
    > Hear, hear!!!! I've often complained (at least to myself) about the
    > complete lack of documentation, and the complete lack of consistency
    > from one version to the next.
    >
    >

    Let's not ruin what could be gained from this discussion by starting up
    with unfounded absolutes. It's this kind of stuff that alienates those
    who have spent time (and may in future) adding to the wiki, the POD
    information (aka, looking at the code), and more. Yes, there needs to
    be better documentation, but there is far from a complete lack.

    -k


  6. #26
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdf View Post
    Let's not ruin what could be gained from this discussion by starting up
    with unfounded absolutes. It's this kind of stuff that alienates those
    who have spent time (and may in future) adding to the wiki, the POD
    information (aka, looking at the code), and more. Yes, there needs to
    be better documentation, but there is far from a complete lack.
    Maybe not a complete lack, but it's clearly deteriorating.

    The future development direction is towards the Jive platform and for that one there is very little information in the Wiki and what is there is often inaccurate or plain out wrong because things have been changed since it has been written.

    Check out the three recent threads by aesculus here in the developer forum. He's trying to simply add menus to his plugin and is experiencing all kinds of issues. Also look who's responding and helping out (basically Erland, Erland and also Erland).
    Phil's playlist manager plugin is not available for that platform because he didn't get any help adding the interface since when, a year ago?

    This is BASIC stuff and there still is no documentation for it that allows plugin developers to get things started. That's pretty close to nil.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

  7. #27
    Watcher of the Windows build
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sandee View Post
    I'd like to know what your alternatives are. What company is doing a
    better job? Or what company is even *trying* to do a better job?
    Ben
    Every time that a company starts to sit on their laurels because it thinks it has the bull by the horns it's bad news. In the tech gadget-software arena having 3rd party development support is what keeps innovation alive. For a company to stand tall and to look around and believe that there are no alternatives... is a loosing preposition. I don't have to name them, but there are plenty of companies that have become road-kill because of that attitude... I'm not an apple fan, but I admire S. Jobs because he has cornered the MP3 mass market, but he keeps moving the envelope forward.

    A lot of companies are going to be doing a better job soon. If you had access to the tech labs of some of the companies that make stereo systems... you'll find that they're trying to incorporate the functionality of something "similar" to the Squeezebox into their receivers. This will kill two birds... it will compete with the iPod docks and products similar to the SQBX. There used to be PDA business and a cell phone business... Now it's safe to say that there is only a Smartphone business... The Smartphone will soon also swallow the stand alone GPS business. This does not mean the the SQBX will disappear all together as there will always be market for separated "dedicated" components... but the mass market will be lost to the makers of receivers with similar SQBX functionality... Heck... Logitech might want to partner with some of the makers of these receivers and have the SQBX circuitry incorporated in their products... Vudu just formed a partnership with Blue-ray/DVD makers to have their streaming solution embedded. I doubt that they'll make another Vudu box... I don't know if I'm making sense... but these "will" be the alternatives and companies with years and years of "dedicated" engineering experience on sound systems will turn their big ships in this direction. Digitized-Streamed music is the future (nothing new here)... These companies will "eventually" do a better job.
    Last edited by tamanaco; 2009-11-26 at 10:14.

  8. #28
    Senior Member GeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sandee View Post

    I'd like to know what your alternatives are. What company is doing a
    better job? Or what company is even *trying* to do a better job?

    Ben
    My alternative is to stick with the current generation of players, and the last reliable version of SBS that supports these plug-ins, and not invest any more money in a system that doesn't meet my needs. Frankly, the software is more important to me than the hardware at this point. Owning a Touch would be groovy, but I get almost everything I need from the existing kit...certainly more than I would get if these plug-ins were left behind.
    Last edited by GeeJay; 2009-11-26 at 10:29. Reason: edit

  9. #29
    Senior Member Philip Meyer's Avatar
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    The end of third party development ?

    >Phil's playlist manager plugin is not available for that platform
    >because he didn't get any help adding the interface since when, a year
    >ago?

    More than that.
    I looked at other plugins to try to reverse-engineer the API. I actually got the menu appear, but without any options in it.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    This thread is rather depressing...
    Can we not have some statement of commitment from the Logitech "powers that be" on this?

    I personally bought in to the whole SD experience largely because of the open source/community aspect. It's a USP for me.

    If it's going to be diminished/de-emphasised/{insert management spin word-du-jour} then I'd like to know.

    I know its easy to conflate things - and that we live in difficult times - but:
    1) 3rd-party devs unhappy - this licencing issue is really pathetic. SORT IT OUT - what are you scared of?
    2) no more BBQ's
    3) the Touch hardware guys have gone very dark...
    4) The global ordering and distribution situation is a farce
    5) The availability of accessories/parts is "difficult" (I'm being kind)
    6) Reports of occasional patchy/poor support (allegedly)

    ... and a bunch of other stuff I can't be bothered to type out right now.

    I've been a staunch supporter and advocate for years. I want to stay that way. But it's getting harder.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

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