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  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    why is the sb3 remote SO unreliable?

    I've had a squeezebox 3 since Christmas. I use it almost all the time as an internet radio player through the squeezenetwork (ie, the computer is usually turned off, or not running squeezecenter).
    My wireless router is connected via a FIOS fiber optic connection up to the side of the house...I can stream full screen video with NO problems, so I know my connection is not the problem.
    Aside from the annoying buffering, this thing fails to respond to the remote FAR too often...20% to 30% of the time. Either it's WAY too slow to accept a command (several seconds go by ... what's it doing??) or it doesn't accept it at all. I have to physically unplug the SB to "reset" the damn thing. It loses the connection far too often, and won't respond to on/off commands, or the "hold-down" left button.
    Coming from a remote control mfr., I fund this intolerable. It's just way too flaky a unit for dependable operation. Is there any way to remedy this?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    It sounds like the remote might be faulty. Why not call Logitech support.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    How is the SB connected to the router?
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ModelCitizen's Avatar
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    I guess you've tried new batteries?
    :-)

    MC
    Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known
    Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen

  5. #5
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    why is the sb3 remote SO unreliable?

    > I've had a squeezebox 3 since Christmas. I use it almost all the time as
    > an internet radio player through the squeezenetwork


    What you see might be the latency between your house and the SN servers.
    Where do you live? Where is your player connecting to
    (Settings/Information)? What kind of connection are you using?

    Michael

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2005
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    1,283

    why is the sb3 remote SO unreliable?

    Mick Seymour wrote:
    > It sounds like the remote might be faulty. Why not call Logitech
    > support.
    >


    To me it sounds more like the problem is in his network (internet)
    connection.

    Regards,
    Peter


  7. #7
    Founder, Slim Devices seanadams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izzym View Post
    I've had a squeezebox 3 since Christmas. I use it almost all the time as an internet radio player through the squeezenetwork (ie, the computer is usually turned off, or not running squeezecenter).
    My wireless router is connected via a FIOS fiber optic connection up to the side of the house...I can stream full screen video with NO problems, so I know my connection is not the problem.
    Aside from the annoying buffering, this thing fails to respond to the remote FAR too often...20% to 30% of the time. Either it's WAY too slow to accept a command (several seconds go by ... what's it doing??) or it doesn't accept it at all. I have to physically unplug the SB to "reset" the damn thing. It loses the connection far too often, and won't respond to on/off commands, or the "hold-down" left button.
    Coming from a remote control mfr., I fund this intolerable. It's just way too flaky a unit for dependable operation. Is there any way to remedy this?
    To rule out network or server issues, try navigating the firmware setup menu. Just use the up and down arrows within a menu. If the setup menu is responsive then you can be certain that the IR hardware is OK, otherwise it is certainly defective. Also note that an IR issue would _not_ cause delays, only lost commands.

    If it's not the IR then it must be either a network or a server-side issue. There are possible network problems besides bandwidth that could be at fault, for example an IP conflict or bridging loop. Also, successfully streaming video is not evidence of a low-latency, low-packet-loss link. Those problems can be masked by sufficient buffering, while still causing problems for interactive traffic. Try running a ping and see if there is loss or delay that happens concurrently with the UI lag.

    The server software could be bogged down for some reason. A good way to test that is to connect directly to Squeezenetwork instead. If SN is faster over the internet than your local system, then you've probably narrowed it down to the server. It could be hurting for RAM or could be busy scanning the disk for some reason (it's done scanning your library, right?). Running Squeezecenter on another computer would be a good test.

    Our phone support is very experienced with this kind of troubleshooting. You should try them next if none of the above helps.

  8. #8
    Senior Member snarlydwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izzym View Post
    Aside from the annoying buffering, this thing fails to respond to the remote FAR too often...
    That implies to me that it is a network reliability issue. The usage of a slim device is different than a PC: PC's usually have tons of RAM to buffer things, so a short dropout on a wireless network just means a short dropout on keeping the buffer full.. there is still plenty there to play stuff.

    With less memory, though, you're more likely to run out of buffered data and that means sound dropouts.

    If the network drops, the SB can not send back the "I hit volume" notice to the server... it gets held up by other data that is destined for the server.

    You may want to check The Usual Suspects:

    1) Make sure your router is running current firmware. Some nasty bugs have been fixed in routers that affect their reliability. (And if it's two years old and has no upgrades.. your router maker sucks and doesn't maintain their products... like mine.)

    2) Use NetStumbler or similar tools to find what networks are near you: if your neighbor starts his BitTorrent client and snarfs pr0n all evening and is on the same channel, or even a 'nearby' channel, his traffic will look like noise to your connection. Because the frequency range of 802.11g is pretty narrow, there are really only 3 channels: 1,6 and 11. The rest overlap. Since most routers in North America come set to channel 6, 1 or 11 may be less noisy.

    3) Built into SC is a network bandwidth test... it just floods the SB with data (which is ignored) and sees how much data it can send before the network starts falling apart. It shouldn't fall apart at all, but other issues (lots of metal or thick brick walls, microwaves, cordless phones, etc) can affect it.

    If you can run it wired, go for it: 802.11g is unlicensed airspace for the simple reason that it sucks and businesses didn't want it. All sorts of devices leak noise into that area (like Microwave ovens) and since it's unregulated... more devices sit there making it worse. (Think of what would happen if the FCC didn't tell radio stations what frequency to use, "just find something free in the AM band, and you'll be fine!" Which would often work, but at night when the atmosphere reflects more radio waves back to earth... that station 500 miles away would make your local station unlistenable.)

  9. #9
    Junior Member
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    Eastern PA
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    ok...

    Quote Originally Posted by seanadams View Post
    To rule out network or server issues, try navigating the firmware setup menu. Just use the up and down arrows within a menu. If the setup menu is responsive then you can be certain that the IR hardware is OK, otherwise it is certainly defective. Also note that an IR issue would _not_ cause delays, only lost commands.

    If it's not the IR then it must be either a network or a server-side issue. There are possible network problems besides bandwidth that could be at fault, for example an IP conflict or bridging loop. Also, successfully streaming video is not evidence of a low-latency, low-packet-loss link. Those problems can be masked by sufficient buffering, while still causing problems for interactive traffic. Try running a ping and see if there is loss or delay that happens concurrently with the UI lag.

    The server software could be bogged down for some reason. A good way to test that is to connect directly to Squeezenetwork instead. If SN is faster over the internet than your local system, then you've probably narrowed it down to the server. It could be hurting for RAM or could be busy scanning the disk for some reason (it's done scanning your library, right?). Running Squeezecenter on another computer would be a good test.

    Our phone support is very experienced with this kind of troubleshooting. You should try them next if none of the above helps.
    The remote itself is fine: batteries are fresh, you can see the transmitter light with a cell phone camera, the SB3 responds eventually, etc.
    The router (an Actiontec MI424WR) appears to have the most current firmware. I didn't see any conflicts in its setup (but I just discovered this program today, and have to dig a little deeper in all the settings).

    Sometimes the up/down arrows respond, other times NOTHING does. The only solution is to unplug & reconnect the power.
    Your suggestions about "running a ping"...I don't know how to do that. Nor do I understand what a "bridging loop" is, or a "UI lag".
    As I've said, I'm ONLY using this with the squeezenetwork, my computer is OFF, so it's not scanning a library or disk! The SB3 is connecting directly with the router, so I don't get how running squeezecenter on a different computer helps.
    Am I unreasonable to expect the OFF button to override whatever the unit is doing & turn the damn thing off?? No other remote, with any other comsumer electronics gear I've ever owned, is this flaky.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
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    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by snarlydwarf View Post
    That implies to me that it is a network reliability issue. The usage of a slim device is different than a PC: PC's usually have tons of RAM to buffer things, so a short dropout on a wireless network just means a short dropout on keeping the buffer full.. there is still plenty there to play stuff.

    With less memory, though, you're more likely to run out of buffered data and that means sound dropouts.

    If the network drops, the SB can not send back the "I hit volume" notice to the server... it gets held up by other data that is destined for the server.

    You may want to check The Usual Suspects:

    1) Make sure your router is running current firmware. Some nasty bugs have been fixed in routers that affect their reliability. (And if it's two years old and has no upgrades.. your router maker sucks and doesn't maintain their products... like mine.)

    2) Use NetStumbler or similar tools to find what networks are near you: if your neighbor starts his BitTorrent client and snarfs pr0n all evening and is on the same channel, or even a 'nearby' channel, his traffic will look like noise to your connection. Because the frequency range of 802.11g is pretty narrow, there are really only 3 channels: 1,6 and 11. The rest overlap. Since most routers in North America come set to channel 6, 1 or 11 may be less noisy.

    3) Built into SC is a network bandwidth test... it just floods the SB with data (which is ignored) and sees how much data it can send before the network starts falling apart. It shouldn't fall apart at all, but other issues (lots of metal or thick brick walls, microwaves, cordless phones, etc) can affect it.

    If you can run it wired, go for it: 802.11g is unlicensed airspace for the simple reason that it sucks and businesses didn't want it. All sorts of devices leak noise into that area (like Microwave ovens) and since it's unregulated... more devices sit there making it worse. (Think of what would happen if the FCC didn't tell radio stations what frequency to use, "just find something free in the AM band, and you'll be fine!" Which would often work, but at night when the atmosphere reflects more radio waves back to earth... that station 500 miles away would make your local station unlistenable.)
    1) I'm pretty sure my firmware is current. (See my previous post)
    2) Never heard of Netstumbler...where can I get it? How does one go about changing the channels on a router? Ugh...I'll have to take a very close look at that router manual & software.
    3) SC...you mean squeezecenter? I'm NOT using that, but does squeezenetwork do the same thing?
    Wired is NOT an option...my system is in the basement, and the router is all the way upstairs in the bedroom. Wireless operation was a key reason for getting this.
    I live in an Eastern PA suburb(Allentown area) & don't think there's anything out of the ordinary RF wise.

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