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  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by madpatrick View Post
    I understand the 100% fixed outpout, but somhow i want also control the volume a little bit with LMS.
    This is where I feel that you and others have a misunderstanding of what happens when you use the 100% fixed output level player audio setting. With this setting, you have full control of the AVR volume using whatever LMS client app you use, from 'mute' up to the maximum level you specify in the plugin settings menu. There is no downside to doing this. Please try it and then tell me what problems, if any, it causes for you -- not 'in theory' but actual problems.

    Therefor i try to achieve a level of 80% of LMS to tweak the volume a little bit remotly. If i want to get volume very high i will walk to the Amp to control the volume.
    If you set the output level to fixed at 100%, you will never have to walk to the amp again! ;-)
    Sam

  2. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBulluss View Post
    That idea I really like! Again, maybe peculiar to my system is that Z2 is outside and quite a distance from the amp, and as such the remote doesn't work when outside. Yes, I know, set it before you go outside, but I usually turn the LMS on with Z2 when already outside.

    I will give the 4.1 beta a run :-)

    Cheers, David
    Hi David. I have a request for you. After you install the 4.1 beta, set the 'Player->Audio-Volume Control' to fixed at 100% for your Zone 2 player and do some testing with your client app of all the scenarios that you are concerned about. After that, come back here and report what specific problems you encounter. I am seeing too many theoretical objections to using 100% fixed output based on misconceptions about what it does. We need to get back to solving real-world problems on this forum and not hypothetical ones. Thanks for your past cooperation and support in beta testing. Your input is appreciated.
    Sam

  3. #623
    Senior Member madpatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamY View Post
    This is where I feel that you and others have a misunderstanding of what happens when you use the 100% fixed output level player audio setting. With this setting, you have full control of the AVR volume using whatever LMS client app you use, from 'mute' up to the maximum level you specify in the plugin settings menu. There is no downside to doing this. Please try it and then tell me what problems, if any, it causes for you -- not 'in theory' but actual problems.

    If you set the output level to fixed at 100%, you will never have to walk to the amp again! ;-)
    Now i understand it.
    Changed the setting to fixed 100% and by the volume changing in LMS the AVR volume is changing
    Great, that it did not see this earlier. Forget my previous posts 🤓
    -
    Patrick

  4. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by madpatrick View Post
    Now i understand it.
    Changed the setting to fixed 100% and by the volume changing in LMS the AVR volume is changing
    Great, that it did not see this earlier. Forget my previous posts 🤓

    Lol!!! I wish I could forget them. 😜
    Seriously I'm happy that things are working the way you want, Patrick. It might be my imagination but I think that your English is improving too!
    Sam

  5. #625
    Senior Member Aesculus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madpatrick View Post
    I'm using on my Denon not the dB scale, but the 0-98 scale.
    So the 27 is then i think 27% and -53db ?

    I understand the 100% fixed outpout, but somhow i want also control the volume a little bit with LMS.
    Therefor i try to achieve a level of 80% of LMS to tweak the volume a little bit remotly. If i want to get volume very high i will walk to the Amp to control the volume.

    My question is maybe not clear explained by me.
    The question was if it is possible to change the maximum volume field in to % instead of the dB scale ?
    This will not change the functionality of the setting, but makes it easier to setup or control. Maybe not so easy to change

    Again, i appreciate your effort for this plugin very much !
    So under the covers the Denon is using a 0-99 scale too. But this setting in the plugin tells us how far up that scale we can go. For example if you selected 0 as your maximum then the Denon will reject any volume command smaller (more volume).

    Here is the scale: :00 to 99 , 80=0dB, 99=---(MIN)

    So the settings in the plugin does not change anything in the Denon or LMS player, it just lets us know how big of a volume your Denon is willing to accept. So we use this to set the range of the LMS player so 100% of the player equals the largest level your Denon will accept. You can actually enter a lower value than what you set in the Denon and we would therefore never reach that level of volume. But if you went the other way then any level in the LMS player that would exceed the Denon's setting would be rejected. In essence that would mean a great deal of the range of your LMS players volume adjustment would not be used and the rest would cause a larger change than is ideal.

    Anyway a bit confusing, but the good news is that once you figure out the formula you only need to enter it one time, unless you change this value on your Denon.

    Originally I did not think there was a way to ask the Denon for this setting as there are no commands to do so. But in preparing for the 4.2 ability to adjust the channel volumes it turns out the Denon gives me back this setting as a bonus. So it is highly probable I will be removing this setting in the plugin in the future. Stand by.
    Chris

  6. #626
    Senior Member madpatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamY View Post
    Lol!!! I wish I could forget them. 😜
    Seriously I'm happy that things are working the way you want, Patrick. It might be my imagination but I think that your English is improving too!
    Thank. Did not noticed the improvement, but thank for the compliment.
    Sure due to the plugin improvement 😆
    -
    Patrick

  7. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBulluss View Post
    Yes, I understand that logic, but for may set-up the missing part of the puzzle is that I sometimes run Z1 on the same amp I am running Z2 and I always set Z1 manually (it has the main household TV etc. running through it and source gets changed unpredictably by grand kids, spouse etc.) so I set it manually depending on the mood at a volume and adjust music vol using LMS. Hence keeping LMS variable suits.

    Cheers, David
    At the risk of being redundant...

    Running with the Zone 2 LMS player output level set to 100% does not mean that you lose the ability to set the Zone 2 AVR volume from your LMS client app. And it has absolutely no effect on your main zone settings. On the contrary, it will allow you to do EXACTLY what you are trying to do. Just set the Zone 2 player output level to 100% in LMS, define your Zone 2 Quick Select to set the initial Zone 2 preamp volume when it is powered on, and use your client app from wherever you are, whether it's on the porch, at the neighbor's house, or anywhere else in range of your wifi router, to control every aspect of the player, including the volume. It's a no-brainer, and is the way the plugin was meant to work. I am still waiting for someone to present me with a valid scenario that would require, or even make sense for, running the plugin with variable LMS player output. I'm starting to understand why Peter's Denon plugin requires that it to be set to 100% or it won't even start up. I blame much of the confusion regarding this issue on the wording of the LMS player menu option description, which is unclear and prone to misinterpretation. Anyway, give it a try and keep enjoying your Squeezebox experience.
    Sam

  8. #628
    Senior Member DavidBulluss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamY View Post
    At the risk of being redundant...

    Running with the Zone 2 LMS player output level set to 100% does not mean that you lose the ability to set the Zone 2 AVR volume from your LMS client app. And it has absolutely no effect on your main zone settings. On the contrary, it will allow you to do EXACTLY what you are trying to do. Just set the Zone 2 player output level to 100% in LMS, define your Zone 2 Quick Select to set the initial Zone 2 preamp volume when it is powered on, and use your client app from wherever you are, whether it's on the porch, at the neighbor's house, or anywhere else in range of your wifi router, to control every aspect of the player, including the volume. It's a no-brainer, and is the way the plugin was meant to work. I am still waiting for someone to present me with a valid scenario that would require, or even make sense for, running the plugin with variable LMS player output. I'm starting to understand why Peter's Denon plugin requires that it to be set to 100% or it won't even start up. I blame much of the confusion regarding this issue on the wording of the LMS player menu option description, which is unclear and prone to misinterpretation. Anyway, give it a try and keep enjoying your Squeezebox experience.
    What if I am using only one LMS player feeding to both Z1 & Z2 of the amp? Both zones are receiving the same signal simultaneously. I will have a play with it all as suggested.

    Cheers, David
    Serverrpi3 pCP7.0.1 LMS8.1.2
    MediaUSB hard drive
    Lounge/dining areasSBT > Denon AVR2113 > Bose Acoustimass10 / Krix Seismix3 18" 300w RMS custom cinema sub (& AR 77XB t/table, Stanton 680MkII / Grado F-1+ > NAD7155 to phono pre-amp > Amp+)
    Family/kitchenSBT > Denon AVRX3000 zone 1 > Krix Acoustix F, Centrix C, Holographix R & Original Seismix 7 15" 400w RMS sub
    Alfrescoas above zone 2 > Krix Tropix
    OthersSB Player/androids > Bose Soundlink Mini
    SBT/SB Player Remotes Squeeze Ctrl/androids

  9. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBulluss View Post
    What if I am using only one LMS player feeding to both Z1 & Z2 of the amp? Both zones are receiving the same signal simultaneously. I will have a play with it all as suggested.
    Okay. Now I understand what you're trying to do. First of all, let's assume that you are running with player volume fixed at 100%. Since, as you know, each LMS player can be assigned to only one zone in the plugin menu, my first question is "Which zone did you assign it to?". Whichever it is, when you are in that zone, you have full control of the player with your client app, including the AVR volume for that zone. When you are in the other zone, however, the volume must be controlled by that zone's remote or the front panel controls. So, from what you have said about your setup, I would think you have assigned the plugin to Zone 2, since it is far away from your AVR. When you are in the main zone, you can control all aspects of the player except the volume via the app, and control the volume via the AVR remote, just as with any other input source. That is probably how I would do it anyway. The only caveat is that you would have to power on the player, and thus Zone 2, in order to use the client app to control the player in the main zone. Of course, you could simply mute the player in the client app after turning it on, which would mute Zone 2, as long as you didn't try to use the client volume controls, which would unmute it. The bottom line is that you are trying to use the plugin in a way it was not designed to be used --- to control two different AVR zones with one player.

    Coincidentally, however, another plugin user made an enhancement request just yesterday to allow for this situation to be supported. The way it would be done is to allow for switching zones on the fly via the client app menu. So, in your scenario, if you were listening to music in Zone 2 and wanted to continue listening in the main zone, you would switch zones in the app. This would power on the main zone and switch the control to it, while optionally powering off the Zone 2 in the process. What are your feelings about that possibility?
    Sam

  10. #630
    Senior Member DavidBulluss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamY View Post
    Coincidentally, however, another plugin user made an enhancement request just yesterday to allow for this situation to be supported. The way it would be done is to allow for switching zones on the fly via the client app menu. So, in your scenario, if you were listening to music in Zone 2 and wanted to continue listening in the main zone, you would switch zones in the app. This would power on the main zone and switch the control to it, while optionally powering off the Zone 2 in the process. What are your feelings about that possibility?
    That would be a great solution. You are correct that I have the app set up for Z2 and I do control Z1 using the remote as I am near the amp while using Z1. I find that as winter sets in (as it is now on my side of the equator) I use Z2 less and less until spring comes around, and during that time am using Z1 more and more.

    Cheers, David
    Serverrpi3 pCP7.0.1 LMS8.1.2
    MediaUSB hard drive
    Lounge/dining areasSBT > Denon AVR2113 > Bose Acoustimass10 / Krix Seismix3 18" 300w RMS custom cinema sub (& AR 77XB t/table, Stanton 680MkII / Grado F-1+ > NAD7155 to phono pre-amp > Amp+)
    Family/kitchenSBT > Denon AVRX3000 zone 1 > Krix Acoustix F, Centrix C, Holographix R & Original Seismix 7 15" 400w RMS sub
    Alfrescoas above zone 2 > Krix Tropix
    OthersSB Player/androids > Bose Soundlink Mini
    SBT/SB Player Remotes Squeeze Ctrl/androids

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