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  1. #1
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Attention Audio Mythbusters!

    Audiodiffmaker

    We've discussed this before... but things have moved on!

    http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm


    A new version of the software (3.2) is available that is much more intelligent/usable than before. Fascinating stuff. That's the weekend gone.

    First off: streaming WAV vs. FLAC... guess what? - absolutely no difference on the analogue audio outs of an SB3. Don't believe me - try it for yourself.

    Next up... 7.2.1 vs 7.4 ...

    Then - v. expensive digital cable vs blue jeans $18 special, stock PSU vs linear, 96/24 track downsampled to 48/24... oh the fun!



    Mains leads, interconnects, feet, the list is endless

    I wonder what will make a difference... oh yes, flac vs 320 MP3...
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  2. #2
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    Phil, please post the results.
    (I used Liberty's LAUD suite to measure loudspeakers, rooms etc years ago, in fact I still have an old Win98 PC in the shed just for LAUD)
    A camel is a racehorse designed by a committee.

    Seen sprayed on the outside wall of the local library -
    Three things I hate in life :
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    I'll be posting results as soon as I can. I have some stuff to do first... I need to make up a proper cable for SB testing.

    First off I'm going to concentrate purely on the analogue output of the SB and what SC AUDIO and streaming settings affect it (or not). Then I'll move on to external DAC testing.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    Audiodiffmaker
    First off: streaming WAV vs. FLAC... guess what? - absolutely no difference on the analogue audio outs of an SB3. Don't believe me - try it for yourself.
    When I first came across lossless formats a couple of years ago, I made the following test (not my idea, seen this somewhere):

    - Ripping a CD track to WAV with EAC
    - Converting the track to APE
    - Invert the phases of the original WAV (using Samplitude)
    - Play both tracks at the same time (using Samplitude)

    Result: complete absolute silence even at maximum volume

    I've never done this test with FLAC. But since then I have no doubts that lossless actually is lossless...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quad View Post
    When I first came across lossless formats a couple of years ago, I made the following test (not my idea, seen this somewhere):

    - Ripping a CD track to WAV with EAC
    - Converting the track to APE
    - Invert the phases of the original WAV (using Samplitude)
    - Play both tracks at the same time (using Samplitude)

    Result: complete absolute silence even at maximum volume

    I've never done this test with FLAC. But since then I have no doubts that lossless actually is lossless...
    That's what I would expect - you are operating purely in the digital domain and cancellation of two identical phase-inverted numeric files is pretty much guaranteed to be perfect.

    These tests are in the analogue domain and so will reveal what is happening AFTER the DAC - the place where the magic happens. Any changes caused by jitter, drifting clocks, random electrons etc will be audible. So far this is proving fascinating.

    For example, the difference between a FLAC and 190/256/320 MP3 is pretty startling. The difference between streaming FLAC vs PCM seems to be... none. The effect of muting the analogue circuits of the SB3 on the digital output seems to be...none.

    However, it's early days and I want to make sure my test results are repeatable.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    ... oh and comparing a 96/24 and 44.1/16 version of the same file is very ... interesting
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  7. #7
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    Oh, now I see. You were not talking about WAV vs. FLAC. It was _streaming_ WAV vs. FLAC. Everything after the magic, got it...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quad View Post
    Oh, now I see. You were not talking about WAV vs. FLAC. It was _streaming_ WAV vs. FLAC. Everything after the magic, got it...
    Yes - sorry I should have been clearer!...

    This is proving to be fun - it's getting addictive. Anyone want to buy some expensive SPDIF coax cables?
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    Yes - sorry I should have been clearer!...

    This is proving to be fun - it's getting addictive. Anyone want to buy some expensive SPDIF coax cables?
    Ha-ha!

    When it comes to MP3 I would like to know about VBR vs CBR. IME VBR is better, I would even rather have VBR 'Max quality' (~256) than CBR320 because it is more compact.

    Of course, measuring a difference isn't conclusive (there may be still no audible difference) whereas measuring no difference is conclusive.
    Darren
    Last edited by darrenyeats; 2009-02-14 at 12:21. Reason: Clarified meaning
    Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

    SB Touch

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    This is proving to be fun - it's getting addictive. Anyone want to buy some expensive SPDIF coax cables?
    LOL. This is going to be very interesting. I will hold my purchase order for a linear PSU until I have seen your test results...

    Regards, Marcel.
    FLAC > Squeezebox 3 > Coaxial Belden 1694A > Sigtone Shek d2 > Blue Jeans LC-1 > Mission Cyrus One > Bi-wired Canare 4S11 > Linn Tukan + REL Q200E

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