Is the DAC in the Squeeze the same as S3?

[Mike Beranek]

Greetings -

I'm going to purchase a new Squeezebox or Slimp3 for another area of the
home and have two q's.

I was wondering if the DAC in the Squeezebox is the same as the Slimp3? I'd
like to "improve" the sound quality and would go with the Squeezebox if it
would help on the analog output side.

Also, if I understand correctly, using the digital output requires an
incremently expensive integrated/external DAC.

Does anyone make >$300US receiver/amp with a decent DAC that can take
advantage of the digital output on the SB?


Thanks,
Mike Beranek

[Pat Farrell]

At 09:15 PM 3/7/2004, Mike Beranek wrote:
>I was wondering if the DAC in the Squeezebox is the same as the Slimp3?

I'll let someone else address this one.

>Also, if I understand correctly, using the digital output requires an
>incremently expensive integrated/external DAC.
>Does anyone make >$300US receiver/amp with a decent DAC that can take
>advantage of the digital output on the SB?

I would not phrase it this way. Using the digital output requires
something that can accept the digital signal, which may be
more expensive. Usually, but not always, more expensive means
better quality.

I would not expect any ~$300 receiver or amp to be significantly better
quality than the DAC in a SqueezeBox. Mostly because in a ~$300 amp,
you have to spend some money on the amp part, maybe a tuner, some
switches, etc. so there isn't much left for the DAC to be better than the
one in the SqueezeBox. BTW, the squeezebox DAC is not
terrible. It is not bad. It is pretty good, and a good deal. It is
a good value for the money, IMHO. It just isn't as wonderful as
a $1000 DAC.

Stereophile has a glowing review of Music Hall Mambo integrated amplifier
in this month's issue, at about $1200 for amp with a very good DAC,
it begs to be connected to a SqueezeBox.

The really cool thing about a SqueezeBox is that it is so inexpensive
that you can get one, and listen and decide if the internal DAC is good enough.
If you are feeding it MP3s or WMAs, I have a hard time seeing how
it could be the weak link. And if you want more, you can spend between
$80 and $5000 on fancier DACs.

HTH
Pat

[Roy M. Silvernail]

On Sun, 2004-03-07 at 21:34, Pat Farrell wrote:

> I would not expect any ~$300 receiver or amp to be significantly
> better
> quality than the DAC in a SqueezeBox. Mostly because in a ~$300 amp,
> you have to spend some money on the amp part, maybe a tuner, some
> switches, etc. so there isn't much left for the DAC to be better than
> the
> one in the SqueezeBox.

I can't necessarily agree, Pat. I have a Samsung Home Theater system
that cost $299 at Best Buy. I've done A-B comparisons between the
analog outs and the TOSLINK digital. The optical out sounds noticeably
cleaner than the analog outs, with a certain subjective crispness that
the analog outs don't have. This isn't to say the analog outs sound
"bad". Just that to my (far from golden, I admit) ears, the DAC in the
receiver sounds a bit better. Now, this could just mean that the analog
inputs on this receiver are sub-wonderful, but the difference is
definitely there.

> If you are feeding it MP3s or WMAs, I have a hard time seeing how
> it could be the weak link. And if you want more, you can spend between
> $80 and $5000 on fancier DACs.

I'm curious what DACs come in at the lower end of the price spectrum.
The little bit that I've looked, it seemed that $800 was a low figure.
I'd be likely to try out something in the $200 range just for grins, but
I can't really justify 2x system price for an outboard DAC. I'd have to
go Onkyo shopping first (and I seem to recall the Onkyo build-in DAC is
pretty nice).
--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

[Pat Farrell]

At 10:27 PM 3/7/2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
>I'm curious what DACs come in at the lower end of the price spectrum. The
>little bit that I've looked, it seemed that $800 was a low figure. I'd be
>likely to try out something in the $200 range just for grins, but I can't
>really justify 2x system price for an outboard DAC. I'd have to go Onkyo
>shopping first (and I seem to recall the Onkyo build-in DAC is pretty nice).

M-Audio and others have a lot of DAs at lower prices.
Someone earlier on this list mentioned their
"transit" with is about $80.
The M-Audio SuperDAC2496 is about $300
http://m-audio.rjmg.com/index.cfm?pid=3279

Hang around the "pro audio" (home recording studio) folks
or the audiophile folks, and you'll see lots of DAs.

The RME line has a very solid reputation, they have a new product,
stereo DAC announced with no price.
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi2.htm



Pat

[morris_minor]

At 10:27 PM 3/7/2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
>I'm curious what DACs come in at the lower end of the price spectrum. The
>little bit that I've looked, it seemed that $800 was a low figure. I'd be
>likely to try out something in the $200 range just for grins, but I can't
>really justify 2x system price for an outboard DAC. I'd have to go Onkyo
>shopping first (and I seem to recall the Onkyo build-in DAC is pretty nice).

M-Audio and others have a lot of DAs at lower prices.
Someone earlier on this list mentioned their
"transit" with is about $80.
The M-Audio SuperDAC2496 is about $300
http://m-audio.rjmg.com/index.cfm?pid=3279

Hang around the "pro audio" (home recording studio) folks
or the audiophile folks, and you'll see lots of DAs.

The RME line has a very solid reputation, they have a new product,
stereo DAC announced with no price.
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi2.htm



Pat

I use an M-Audio USB Transit hooked up to my Mac Mini to record vinyl from my Gyrodec SE > Era V Gold with great results. I'm a firm believer in checking out pro-audio gear as you miss out on the audiophile bullshit )

[slimpy]

I have a Samsung Home Theater system
that cost $299 at Best Buy. I've done A-B comparisons between the
analog outs and the TOSLINK digital. The optical out sounds noticeably
cleaner than the analog outs, with a certain subjective crispness that
the analog outs don't have. This isn't to say the analog outs sound
"bad". Just that to my (far from golden, I admit) ears, the DAC in the
receiver sounds a bit better. Now, this could just mean that the analog
inputs on this receiver are sub-wonderful, but the difference is
definitely there.

Unless your system has a direct analog pass-trough (not common at the quoted price) it will convert the analog input signal to digital and then back to analog again. No need to explain that music quality suffers under those circumstances.

-s.

[slimpy]

This thread is over 3 years old!
Silly me, I should have looked at the date before posting...

Edit: at least I wasn't the one who revived it...

-s.

[seanadams]

This thread is over 3 years old!

Heh


........

[iPhone]

This thread is over 3 years old!
Silly me, I should have looked at the date before posting...

Edit: at least I wasn't the one who revived it...

-s.

Heh


........

But from reading it, looks like good answers. And hasn't technology changed in three years. Doesn't the tread need updated for that reason alone (since it has been brought back to life)? BTW, how long do threads stay open? Do they have a born on date and a stale date? I am new to the forum so I am semi-serious.

[seanadams]

I have a Samsung Home Theater system
that cost $299 at Best Buy. I've done A-B comparisons between the
analog outs and the TOSLINK digital. The optical out sounds noticeably
cleaner than the analog outs, with a certain subjective crispness that
the analog outs don't have.

It is almost certain that this receiver is digitizing its analog inputs - most do. In that case, the sound quality that you get when using its digital inputs will set the "upper bound", and anything you connect to the analog inputs will be limited by BOTH the quality of the ADC in the receiver, and the quality of the DAC in the source, and the interconnects and so on. Because of this, your result is unsurprising and also rather meaningless. A more valid test would be to compare SB3s analog output (level matched) to some DAC or other analog output.

Generally speaking, digital sources such as SB3 should be connected digitally unless you are feeding a purely analog (pre)amp.