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  1. #1
    Mike Beranek
    Guest

    Is the DAC in the Squeeze the same as S3?

    Greetings -

    I'm going to purchase a new Squeezebox or Slimp3 for another area of the
    home and have two q's.

    I was wondering if the DAC in the Squeezebox is the same as the Slimp3? I'd
    like to "improve" the sound quality and would go with the Squeezebox if it
    would help on the analog output side.

    Also, if I understand correctly, using the digital output requires an
    incremently expensive integrated/external DAC.

    Does anyone make >$300US receiver/amp with a decent DAC that can take
    advantage of the digital output on the SB?


    Thanks,
    Mike Beranek

  2. #2
    Pat Farrell
    Guest

    Is the DAC in the Squeeze the same as S3?

    At 09:15 PM 3/7/2004, Mike Beranek wrote:
    >I was wondering if the DAC in the Squeezebox is the same as the Slimp3?


    I'll let someone else address this one.

    >Also, if I understand correctly, using the digital output requires an
    >incremently expensive integrated/external DAC.
    >Does anyone make >$300US receiver/amp with a decent DAC that can take
    >advantage of the digital output on the SB?


    I would not phrase it this way. Using the digital output requires
    something that can accept the digital signal, which may be
    more expensive. Usually, but not always, more expensive means
    better quality.

    I would not expect any ~$300 receiver or amp to be significantly better
    quality than the DAC in a SqueezeBox. Mostly because in a ~$300 amp,
    you have to spend some money on the amp part, maybe a tuner, some
    switches, etc. so there isn't much left for the DAC to be better than the
    one in the SqueezeBox. BTW, the squeezebox DAC is not
    terrible. It is not bad. It is pretty good, and a good deal. It is
    a good value for the money, IMHO. It just isn't as wonderful as
    a $1000 DAC.

    Stereophile has a glowing review of Music Hall Mambo integrated amplifier
    in this month's issue, at about $1200 for amp with a very good DAC,
    it begs to be connected to a SqueezeBox.

    The really cool thing about a SqueezeBox is that it is so inexpensive
    that you can get one, and listen and decide if the internal DAC is good enough.
    If you are feeding it MP3s or WMAs, I have a hard time seeing how
    it could be the weak link. And if you want more, you can spend between
    $80 and $5000 on fancier DACs.

    HTH
    Pat

  3. #3
    Roy M. Silvernail
    Guest

    Is the DAC in the Squeeze the same as S3?

    On Sun, 2004-03-07 at 21:34, Pat Farrell wrote:

    > I would not expect any ~$300 receiver or amp to be significantly
    > better
    > quality than the DAC in a SqueezeBox. Mostly because in a ~$300 amp,
    > you have to spend some money on the amp part, maybe a tuner, some
    > switches, etc. so there isn't much left for the DAC to be better than
    > the
    > one in the SqueezeBox.


    I can't necessarily agree, Pat. I have a Samsung Home Theater system
    that cost $299 at Best Buy. I've done A-B comparisons between the
    analog outs and the TOSLINK digital. The optical out sounds noticeably
    cleaner than the analog outs, with a certain subjective crispness that
    the analog outs don't have. This isn't to say the analog outs sound
    "bad". Just that to my (far from golden, I admit) ears, the DAC in the
    receiver sounds a bit better. Now, this could just mean that the analog
    inputs on this receiver are sub-wonderful, but the difference is
    definitely there.

    > If you are feeding it MP3s or WMAs, I have a hard time seeing how
    > it could be the weak link. And if you want more, you can spend between
    > $80 and $5000 on fancier DACs.


    I'm curious what DACs come in at the lower end of the price spectrum.
    The little bit that I've looked, it seemed that $800 was a low figure.
    I'd be likely to try out something in the $200 range just for grins, but
    I can't really justify 2x system price for an outboard DAC. I'd have to
    go Onkyo shopping first (and I seem to recall the Onkyo build-in DAC is
    pretty nice).
    --
    Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
    Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
    SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
    http://www.rant-central.com

  4. #4
    Pat Farrell
    Guest

    Is the DAC in the Squeeze the same as S3?

    At 10:27 PM 3/7/2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
    >I'm curious what DACs come in at the lower end of the price spectrum. The
    >little bit that I've looked, it seemed that $800 was a low figure. I'd be
    >likely to try out something in the $200 range just for grins, but I can't
    >really justify 2x system price for an outboard DAC. I'd have to go Onkyo
    >shopping first (and I seem to recall the Onkyo build-in DAC is pretty nice).


    M-Audio and others have a lot of DAs at lower prices.
    Someone earlier on this list mentioned their
    "transit" with is about $80.
    The M-Audio SuperDAC2496 is about $300
    http://m-audio.rjmg.com/index.cfm?pid=3279

    Hang around the "pro audio" (home recording studio) folks
    or the audiophile folks, and you'll see lots of DAs.

    The RME line has a very solid reputation, they have a new product,
    stereo DAC announced with no price.
    http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi2.htm



    Pat

  5. #5
    Senior Member morris_minor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Farrell View Post
    At 10:27 PM 3/7/2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
    >I'm curious what DACs come in at the lower end of the price spectrum. The
    >little bit that I've looked, it seemed that $800 was a low figure. I'd be
    >likely to try out something in the $200 range just for grins, but I can't
    >really justify 2x system price for an outboard DAC. I'd have to go Onkyo
    >shopping first (and I seem to recall the Onkyo build-in DAC is pretty nice).


    M-Audio and others have a lot of DAs at lower prices.
    Someone earlier on this list mentioned their
    "transit" with is about $80.
    The M-Audio SuperDAC2496 is about $300
    http://m-audio.rjmg.com/index.cfm?pid=3279

    Hang around the "pro audio" (home recording studio) folks
    or the audiophile folks, and you'll see lots of DAs.

    The RME line has a very solid reputation, they have a new product,
    stereo DAC announced with no price.
    http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi2.htm



    Pat
    I use an M-Audio USB Transit hooked up to my Mac Mini to record vinyl from my Gyrodec SE > Era V Gold with great results. I'm a firm believer in checking out pro-audio gear as you miss out on the audiophile bullshit )

  6. #6
    Senior Member slimpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Beranek View Post
    I was wondering if the DAC in the Squeezebox is the same as the Slimp3? I'd
    like to "improve" the sound quality and would go with the Squeezebox if it
    would help on the analog output side.
    Have a look at the hardware comparison page in the wiki:
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cg...wareComparison
    Not only has the sb3 a better dac but also all other parts are far superior to the ones used in the slimp3.
    The sb3 supports more file formats (FLAC!) than the slimp3 and its larger buffer makes it less prone to music drop-outs.

    -s.

  7. #7
    Senior Member slimpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy M. Silvernail View Post
    I have a Samsung Home Theater system
    that cost $299 at Best Buy. I've done A-B comparisons between the
    analog outs and the TOSLINK digital. The optical out sounds noticeably
    cleaner than the analog outs, with a certain subjective crispness that
    the analog outs don't have. This isn't to say the analog outs sound
    "bad". Just that to my (far from golden, I admit) ears, the DAC in the
    receiver sounds a bit better. Now, this could just mean that the analog
    inputs on this receiver are sub-wonderful, but the difference is
    definitely there.
    Unless your system has a direct analog pass-trough (not common at the quoted price) it will convert the analog input signal to digital and then back to analog again. No need to explain that music quality suffers under those circumstances.

    -s.

  8. #8
    Senior Member slimpy's Avatar
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    This thread is over 3 years old!
    Silly me, I should have looked at the date before posting...

    Edit: at least I wasn't the one who revived it...

    -s.

  9. #9
    Founder, Slim Devices seanadams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy M. Silvernail View Post
    I have a Samsung Home Theater system
    that cost $299 at Best Buy. I've done A-B comparisons between the
    analog outs and the TOSLINK digital. The optical out sounds noticeably
    cleaner than the analog outs, with a certain subjective crispness that
    the analog outs don't have.
    It is almost certain that this receiver is digitizing its analog inputs - most do. In that case, the sound quality that you get when using its digital inputs will set the "upper bound", and anything you connect to the analog inputs will be limited by BOTH the quality of the ADC in the receiver, and the quality of the DAC in the source, and the interconnects and so on. Because of this, your result is unsurprising and also rather meaningless. A more valid test would be to compare SB3s analog output (level matched) to some DAC or other analog output.

    Generally speaking, digital sources such as SB3 should be connected digitally unless you are feeding a purely analog (pre)amp.

  10. #10
    Founder, Slim Devices seanadams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimpy View Post
    This thread is over 3 years old!

    Heh


    ........

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