Home of the Squeezebox™ & Transporter® network music players.
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2

    Artist vs. composer

    I have a small problem or "thing" that annoys me. I have a lot of music in my library in many different genres. Among those genres are some classical music. Whem I rip my cd's with Itunes, the name of the orchestra usually goes to the artist field and the composer to the composer field. Nothing strange there. Now, when I wan't to play some Wagner, I can't find it, because he is listed under composer, which is not in the list. I have found the feature to include the composer in the artist list, and it have helped me to find Wagner in the list, but I would like to exclude the artist for these records. Right now, my artist list is a bit of a mess, because, for every record, both the artist and the composer is represented. For "Der Ring des Nibelungen", I have both Wagner and Badische Staatskapelle, and I would like to exlude them. Not that I have anything against them, but it's quite unlikely that I would use the as a search criteria. The same problem is present with rock, pop and other genres.

    I think, that what I need is a feature that lists artist for all albums and a feature that permits me to, for any single album, to say "For this album, I would like to list the composer _instead_ of the artist".

    Of course, I could edit the information for the albums in question, but I would loose some information about the album that way, and I would like to avoid that.

    What are you doing about this? Have you edited the information for the songs or do you just accept either the bloated artist list or the missing composer names? Is there a plugin that can enable the feature I request? (I haven't found any) or is it possible to write a plugin that does this?

    Regards,
    Jesper Andersen

  2. #2
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    11,042
    Quote Originally Posted by jka View Post
    I think, that what I need is a feature that lists artist for all albums and a feature that permits me to, for any single album, to say "For this album, I would like to list the composer _instead_ of the artist".

    Of course, I could edit the information for the albums in question, but I would loose some information about the album that way, and I would like to avoid that.

    What are you doing about this? Have you edited the information for the songs or do you just accept either the bloated artist list or the missing composer names?
    If you like it to behave differently you can register a feature request at:
    http://bugs.slimdevices.com
    Before you register a new feature request, try to search to check if there already is one available.

    Personally I just choose to have the bloated artist list, but I've only tagged composers on the few classical albums I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by jka View Post
    Is there a plugin that can enable the feature I request? (I haven't found any) or is it possible to write a plugin that does this?
    I think the closest match for a plugin you are going to find is the Custom Browse plugin. It makes it possible to create separate browse menus for "Artists" and "Composers". You can also create different browse menus for classical music and non classical music, only showing the composers in the classical music and only showing the artists for non classical music. If you know some SQL and XML I think it would even be possible to create a browse menu that works exactly as you want using the Custom Browse plugin.

    I also think it would be possible to write a plugin that removed the artists from the database on tracks that also have a composer. If you just figure out the SQL statement to do this, I even think it would be pretty simple. I posted a plugin in the following thread that runs a SQL statement after a rescan, if you have the correct SQL statement to remove the necessary database entries and know a little bit about development you should be able to use this plugin as a start:
    http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...837#post202837
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Developer of many plugins/applets

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    I think the closest match for a plugin you are going to find is the Custom Browse plugin. It makes it possible to create separate browse menus for "Artists" and "Composers". You can also create different browse menus for classical music and non classical music, only showing the composers in the classical music and only showing the artists for non classical music. If you know some SQL and XML I think it would even be possible to create a browse menu that works exactly as you want using the Custom Browse plugin.
    Thanks, it sounds like the plugin I need. I will take a look at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    I also think it would be possible to write a plugin that removed the artists from the database on tracks that also have a composer. If you just figure out the SQL statement to do this, I even think it would be pretty simple. I posted a plugin in the following thread that runs a SQL statement after a rescan, if you have the correct SQL statement to remove the necessary database entries and know a little bit about development you should be able to use this plugin as a start:
    http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...837#post202837
    The problem is, that I don't want it for all records. For example, Dire Straits, Money For Nothing has Dire Straits as artist and Mark Knopfler/Sting as composer. In this case, I would like to keep the artist in the list.

    But thanks for the fast reply and the hint on the plugin. I'll give it a try.

    Regards,
    Jesper

  4. #4
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    11,042
    Quote Originally Posted by jka View Post
    The problem is, that I don't want it for all records. For example, Dire Straits, Money For Nothing has Dire Straits as artist and Mark Knopfler/Sting as composer. In this case, I would like to keep the artist in the list.
    There is no reason that the SQL can't exclude certain albums or artists from the delete operation, it will just make the SQL statement a bit more complex.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Developer of many plugins/applets

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Olde London Town
    Posts
    1,111
    CustomeBrowse should help you. I have mixed genres, so have a used the Composers menu, which reads from the COMPOSER tag. I don't filter this by genre, as I never tag non-classical music with composer.

    Home/Composers
    Items 1 to 65 of 438
    Abel, C F
    Adams, J
    Albeniz, I
    Albero, S
    Albert, H
    ...

    Then I have a 'Artists by Letter' Browse Menu, which I filter to exclude my various "Classical" genres, so I get -

    Home / Artists / C

    Items 1 to 65 of 65
    Cactus
    Cadillac Blues Band
    Caitlin Cary & Thad Cockrell
    Candy Dulfer
    Canned Heat
    Captain Beefheart & The Magic Band
    The Cardigans
    ...

    This works for me, as 99% of the time I want to browse classical by the composer, but I could easily add a "Classical Artists by Letter" Browse Menu with a suitable genre filter.
    Last edited by amcluesent; 2007-09-02 at 12:36.

  6. #6
    Senior Member ceejay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Worcestershire, UK
    Posts
    2,314
    Quote Originally Posted by jka View Post

    Of course, I could edit the information for the albums in question, but I would loose some information about the album that way, and I would like to avoid that.
    You need to start by recognising that none of this stuff was designed with classical music in mind. That done, you can move on to solving your problem: its not too hard and you don't have to throw away any information.

    If "Artist" is the main search field you are going to use (and Slimserver makes that a natural thing to do) then just make sure that Artist always contains the data you are going to want to search on. For classical music that's usually the composer, for non-classical its usually the performer/band.

    So let iTunes fill in the Composer and Band tags, and let it fill in Artist with whatever it will. Then, for Classical music, simply ensure that the Band/Performer tags have the right data in, and copy Composer to Artist. You can set up a very simple action script in mp3tag, for example, to automate this.

    This might be a little extra work, but it is probably insignificant compared to the work you are doing anyway (should be doing!!) to fix the rubbishy information that is always downloaded for classical albums...

    YMMV
    Ceejay

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    105
    I basically agree with this last post. Slimbox/Slimserver doesn't appear to be designed with organizing Classical music in mind. So whatever you do it's a compromise. I have a large Classical music collection and I do the available iTunes fields in the following way.

    Name (i.e. Track) = Movement or Song name (ex. 1. Allegro)
    Artist = Composer (ex. Mozart, Wolfgang Amadaus (1756-1791))
    Composer = Orchestra and Conductor (ex. Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Sir Charles Mackerras, John O'Conor (piano))
    Album = Piece (ex. Piano Concerto No. 24 in C minor, K.491)
    Grouping = Album Name (ex. Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 17 & No. 24, John O'Conor)

    I too use Custom Browse, but mainly for setting up personal menus, not for doing anything special for Classical music. As the previous poster mentions, the tags that you get automatically are not usually very good. I just retag to consistently abide by the scheme above. This works out very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceejay View Post
    You need to start by recognising that none of this stuff was designed with classical music in mind. That done, you can move on to solving your problem: its not too hard and you don't have to throw away any information.

    If "Artist" is the main search field you are going to use (and Slimserver makes that a natural thing to do) then just make sure that Artist always contains the data you are going to want to search on. For classical music that's usually the composer, for non-classical its usually the performer/band.

    So let iTunes fill in the Composer and Band tags, and let it fill in Artist with whatever it will. Then, for Classical music, simply ensure that the Band/Performer tags have the right data in, and copy Composer to Artist. You can set up a very simple action script in mp3tag, for example, to automate this.

    This might be a little extra work, but it is probably insignificant compared to the work you are doing anyway (should be doing!!) to fix the rubbishy information that is always downloaded for classical albums...

    YMMV
    Ceejay

  8. #8
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    11,042
    If anyone decides to try the Custom Browse/Custom Scan plugins with Classical Music there are two wiki pages related to this on my wiki:

    To get a completely dynamic browse menu where you can browse your tags in any order and number of levels:
    http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index...._music_by_tags

    To get a number of custom browse menus adjusted for usage with classical music:
    http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index...._to_SlimServer

    Feedback is welcome both on the plugins and the wiki information.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Developer of many plugins/applets

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    South Coast, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,256
    jka, have you read the wiki ? >>-> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cg...ideToClassical
    A camel is a racehorse designed by a committee.

    Seen sprayed on the outside wall of the local library -
    Three things I hate in life :
    1. Vandalism
    2. Irony
    3. Lists

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    749
    The method that I'm using on rips from 300+ classical CDs is to have the composer's name in the Artist field, with the Album field containing the title of the piece plus the performer or conductor in parentheses.

    Example
    Artist: Beethoven
    Album: Symphony No.5 (Karajan)

    The parentheses provide a searchable means of distinguishing between Album name and performer/conductor, without involving the Composer field that isn't used in some software.

    It's not ideal, but it lets me accomplish everything I want to do.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •