Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?

[omega]

One more thing..

when you try this "PAUSE" fix..

You have to try on varius Tracks / Different Music.
It´s easier to hear on some music / Good recordings.

Steel Guitars (Not disted) Live for example.

Listen on recording with a lot of "Room" in it.

Listen for change in "Stereo" depth sonic image, upper high high frequency !

Space and reverbation of instruments.
Like Piano string etc.

Once you her it´s easy to pick up the change from more and more tracks.

/Mats :-)

[seanadams]

I'm one of those open minded people that will give things a go before passing comment ....

Me too, and I wish Omega were open minded enough to consider the possibility that his mind is involved in the hearing process. I think he should give that theory a go before passing comment.

[zanash]

My unit is wireless .....

as to the rest I know very little ....

but its odd to have a similar issue ?

[omega]

Hi Again!

seanadams, you say you can´t hear "The effect"
What Stereo gear did you use during the test? External DAC ? and fixed output in player setting, Stream Flac as Wave etc?
How many tracks did you test ? For how long did you test?, Had you allready make up your mind?

What Speakers etc ? It´s harder to hear "The effect" trough headphones (I haven´t tried this , but "hammer65" have)

Can you tell me what appens when i press power off on the SB3? (Even if you can´t hear this thing, And think it´s only in my and hammer65 minds.)
I think there is some Digital Synk reset or buffer thing during power OFF?

And when you change track, the digital synkrionsation between SB3 and external dac gets "Out of synk" ?
I think it´t a easy to fix if you know what happens during Power on/oFF, Change track etc.

Me and "Hammer65" are thinking about to measure this through the analogoutputs from our external dacs.
And do a full 3D spektrum analyze on it.

seanadams, do you have measure equipment ?


I have the "Digital Outputs Always at on" Setting in Slimserver / SB3.


I haven´t test the internal Dac i don´t think anyone will be able to hear "The Effect" trough the SB3 Analog outputs.?

If i change the volume from "Fixed" to "Adjustable" in player settings, Then the "PAUSE" Fix don´t work. (We are not able to hear any differance)
But as a wrote earlier the "Fixed" sounds way better than "Adjustable"

It´s easier to hear on my system because i have a "A universally applicable omnidirectional tweeter"

"Hammer65" QUAD ESL and they don´t get so high in frequency. ("The focus on midrange")

This can´t realy be a Placebo thing Both of us can hear this cleary and my girfriend to.

Later in this week my brother is coming Visiting me, ang a will put him in the "Test seat"

Anyone planing visiting Sweden, Stockholm, Me and "hammer65" can do a Demo for you.
I am ready for all "Blid test" there is !

We realy want a fix for this because SB3 is Great, we all LOVE IT !

Best regards to all of you!

/Mats :-)

[vrobin]

I don't know the truth or placebo part of this thread, but... damn, reading you really scare me! Wether you're a troller, a placebo victim or a real good ear... please, take it easy!

[aubuti]

seanadams, do you have measure equipment ?

LOL! Do you think Sean might have had some measure equipment when he invented the Slimp3 and the SB?

This can´t realy be a Placebo thing Both of us can hear this cleary and my girfriend to.

Looking forward to hearing the results of your blind A/B tests.

FYI, I tried your test, and couldn't hear it the effect you claim. That could be because my audio equipment is only "hi-fi", not "high end".....

[Phil Leigh]

Mine's pretty high-end "ish" - couldn't hear it though...

But - I don't have one of these:

"A universally applicable omnidirectional tweeter"

But I do have Townsend Supertweeters.

[PhilNYC]

I tried this and couldn't hear any difference with either my Transporter, SB2, or SB3. My music collection is stored in Apple Lossless, but I convert to WAV in Slimserver before sending to the TP/SB. In all cases, I'm using a wireless connection. Using a Dodson DA-218 DAC with the Transporter, a Bel Canto DAC3 with the SB3, and a Zhaolu DAC2.0 with the SB2. Speakers being used are the Focus Audio FS-888, FS-688, and Acoustic Zen Adagios. Preamps include a Blue Circle BC3000mkII w/GZpz power supply, Bel Canto Pre3, and no preamp (SB2 is hooked directly to the amp). Amps include a Blue Circle BC206 hybrid stereo amp, a pair of Bel Canto ref1000 monoblocks, and a Bel Canto S300 stereo amp.

For some context regarding what I do hear, I hear differences when using an Elpac power supply with my SB2; I hear differences between various interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords; and in certain systems I can hear differences in vibration control devices et al. But I couldn't hear a difference in this particular case.

My two cents...

[omega]

Hi Phil Leigh,

Do you have "Fixed Volume" Setting And no auto gain settings?
Optical or Coaxial output ?
Stream Wave as Flac?

How long / Many recordings did you test?

What server / Firmware Version ?

"Sweetspot" listening etc?

Just came home from the office,
Tested again, a can clearly hear this..

listened to "Phil Keaggy" "Acoustic Sketches"
I can realy here it so clear on some tracks
(More air) strange but i can´t ignore this.

Anyway later this week i plan to measure, (Hope it is measurable)
This people are going to help me.

http://www.audiolab.se/adl/index.htm

But any way i understand you people, you must think me and "Hammer65" is mad?

I can´t blame you.
You done my test and couldn't hear it though.
Thats make us so frustrating Why is we able to hear it ?

There must be some more people out there hearing this?

"Hammer65" and i both have Tubes in our system maby it´s easier to hear with that ?

I realy don´t know..

"Hammer65" think is´s something with the klocks / Synk.

You know we don´t think this is a placebo thing.
I realy don´t beleive in "mass psychosis."
Mabye it´s the northen light or all the LSD we take here i sweden for keep us happy? :-)

Anyway i feel what way this is leading..
Most peolple don´t care litening to us crazy swedes.

I can live with this bugg,
I am happy to have a workaround for it.
Nowdays i´am quite fast with the remote :-)
Just hit the "Pause" Off / On "Pause"

If i listen to a hole record "the good sound" is there all the time.
So the fix is only needed when jumping between tracks

Feels a littlebit sad because i recommended the SB3 for "Hammer65"

But "Hammer65" bougth a "old" SB2 today.
He are going to give med a call later today,
But i think the "Problem is in the Firmware or slimserver.

We will continue invetigating this,
Post anything we found out.

I planning to get a "TVIX" but im not sure how it´s sound from the digital outputs (Jitter, Buffers etc)

But High end is fun, it´s qute fun but frustrating to running into problems like this one,


/Mats :-)

[snarlydwarf]

If i listen to a hole record "the good sound" is there all the time.
So the fix is only needed when jumping between tracks

How have you configured ReplayGain?

[Phil Leigh]

Omega,
Yes I have digital volume fixed (and analogue volume at 63 - i.e. off!), no auto gain and I stream FLAC (as I can hear NO difference streaming WAV or FLAC). Digital o/op is coax into TACT RCS 2.2x (and then Altmann JISCO+UPCI into MR X-DACv3 - all coax...)

I tried it 4 or 5 times with a couple of revealing albums with nice reverb tails - Dire Straits/Communique and Keb Mo' Peace...

6.3.1+latest firmware.

[omega]

This is me and "Hammers" Player Audio Settings:

Turn OFF Audio:Outputs always on
Crossfade:None
Crossfade Duration:0
Digital Volume Controligital output level is Fixed
Preamp Volume Control:0
Audio Startup time:0
Bitrate limiting:No Limit
Volume Adjustment/Replay Gainisable Volume Adjustment.
MP3 Streaming Methodirect Streaming

And Stream Flac as Wave, External DAC. Power supplys filters good cables etc etc..

/Mats

[Phil Leigh]

Omega - try it with Preamp Volume Control = 63 (ie the analogue stages are turned off) - does it still work?

[omega]

Hi Agian Phil Leigh!

Thanks for giving this a try! :-)

Can you test one more thing?
If you have a Optical cable, Try the Optical Out from SB3
Mabye your "Altmann JISCO+UPCI" is helping you ?
Please try without the "Altmann JISCO+UPCI" over Optical.

Both me and Hammer65 hear the differance in Stream Flac as Wave.
And many more in this forum.
Anyway i hear the bugg with Flac streamed as FLAC.

Do you have the X-PSU also ? (I Have)

Best regards

/Mats the strange Swed ! :-)

[Phil Leigh]

Hi Agian Phil Leigh!

Thanks for giving this a try! :-)

Can you test one more thing?
If you have a Optical cable, Try the Optical Out from SB3
Mabye your "Altmann JISCO+UPCI" is helping you ?
Please try without the "Altmann JISCO+UPCI" over Optical.

Both me and Hammer65 hear the differance in Stream Flac as Wave.
And many more in this forum.
Anyway i hear the bugg with Flac streamed as FLAC.

Do you have the X-PSU also ? (I Have)

Best regards

/Mats the strange Swed ! :-)

Mats - I can't try optical at the moment as I don't have a cable. However, can you clarify...do you hear this effect with both "stream flac as wav" and "stream flac as flac"?

I do have the X-PSU.

If I take the Altmann boxes out of the loop I don't like the sound and the effect of taking them out is bigger than the one you describe (I think).

Have you tried setting preamp volume to 63 (off) yet?
Phil