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Thread: HDCD ripping

  1. #21
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Floding View Post
    Even if there is some compression, it is hardly noticable. It is way, way less than the voluntary compression done to make pop CDs sound "hot" today.
    Absolutely. HDCD's (ripped or raw) generally sound fine and even better when going through an HDCD DAC. An HDCD will usually have a lot of care put into its production mastering. I've never heard a "bad" HDCD (regardless of whether the DAC was HDCD capable or not). They certainly don't sound hyper-compressed and there is no point in trying to "downconvert" an HDCD wav to non-HDCD thinking it will sound better. It will sound the same...unless you have an HDCD DAC in which case it will sound worse than it might because you have just pointlessly removed the benefit of HDCD.

    I have 50+ HDCD's. I don't have an HDCD DAC at the moment. The next DAC I get will certainly have HDCD - I miss it more than I expected.

    I live in eternal hope that we might get 24-bit masters to download in the future - which would render HDCD irrelevant.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Skunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    I've never heard a "bad" HDCD (regardless of whether the DAC was HDCD capable or not).
    Neil Young Broken Arrow, Mirrorball,

    edit: and Year of the Horse (hit submit accidentally). Plus I was going to say I enjoy the stereo version of Pet Sounds on HDCD, despite its artifice (mono tapes).
    Last edited by Skunk; 2007-02-22 at 11:10.

  3. #23
    Senior Member jmourik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    I don't have an HDCD DAC at the moment. The next DAC I get will certainly have HDCD
    Any dac that has hdcd decoding you know of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    I live in eternal hope that we might get 24-bit masters to download in the future - which would render HDCD irrelevant.
    Yes, that would be great. Don't think the big record companies will go for that though...

  4. #24
    Senior Member mudlark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmourik View Post
    Any dac that has hdcd decoding you know of?


    Yes, that would be great. Don't think the big record companies will go for that though...
    It appears Linn records have.....

    http://www.linnrecords.com/recording...el-vol--1.aspx

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  5. #25
    Senior Member 325xi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    I've never heard a "bad" HDCD (regardless of whether the DAC was HDCD capable or not).
    RR Reveries was sounding bad whatever I tried... Don't think it's HDCD related though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    ...there is no point in trying to "downconvert" an HDCD wav to non-HDCD thinking it will sound better. It will sound the same...unless you have an HDCD DAC in which case it will sound worse than it might because you have just pointlessly removed the benefit of HDCD.
    This is not about downconverting. HDCD decoder dynamically builds the "final" signal using standard CD data as a base, and additional HDCD information. What I think about is to do the same thing just once, on a computer, resulting in 24 bit wav file that represents finally decoded HDCD recording. Not sure it's possible, but that would make sense to me. On CD you're limited to 16bit, so you have to do it dynamically. There's no reason to have such a limitation on pc.


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  6. #26
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skunk View Post
    Neil Young Broken Arrow, Mirrorball,

    edit: and Year of the Horse (hit submit accidentally). Plus I was going to say I enjoy the stereo version of Pet Sounds on HDCD, despite its artifice (mono tapes).
    I haven't heard those Neil Young discs...(although strangely I am a big but rather selective NY fan...)

    and yes the PS is great fun!

  7. #27
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 325xi View Post
    RR Reveries was sounding bad whatever I tried... Don't think it's HDCD related though...


    This is not about downconverting. HDCD decoder dynamically builds the "final" signal using standard CD data as a base, and additional HDCD information. What I think about is to do the same thing just once, on a computer, resulting in 24 bit wav file that represents finally decoded HDCD recording. Not sure it's possible, but that would make sense to me. On CD you're limited to 16bit, so you have to do it dynamically. There's no reason to have such a limitation on pc.
    Oh I see - yes that makes sense. Would be neat if that could be done...If you manage to figure out how to do this I'd be VERY interested.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmourik View Post
    Any dac that has hdcd decoding you know of?


    Yes, that would be great. Don't think the big record companies will go for that though...
    There's quite a few HDCD capable DACS.

    Most of them are not in current production though.

    Linn appears committed to making high-bit downloads available. Naim and other small independants will follow. I have an email from Linn confirming that they are going to increase their available catalogue on 24-bit - which is great news because I love their jazz stuff.

    Sadly I suspect that the major labels will not follow suit...because they will want DRM etc... It's about time record companies stopped treating their customers as "criminals in the making"...


    Anyway,

  9. #29
    Senior Member Skunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    There's quite a few HDCD capable DACS.

    Most of them are not in current production though.
    Re. WMP licensing:
    To obtain the HDCD source code, docutmetation, etc., there is a $10,000 fee- plus a $0.10 per unit royalty. I do wish more DAC makers would invest in this, becasue HDCD can be sent over the network. Ideally Sb4 would support it and eliminate the DAC.

    I think the Pacific Microsonic ASIC that did HDCD, before microsoft bought them, included royalties in the cost of the chip. Does anyone know of a chip available these days? Do any sites cover reverse engineering some of the cheap dvd players/recorders, either to get the HDCD chip/functionality out, or use a recorders digital input as DAC?

  10. #30
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    Somewhere in this pile of crap, I have a pinout and circuit for using the PMD100 HDCD chip, but do you think I can find it right now? I can find the pair of chips I have, but not the documents!

    In any event, it's not quite that simple, because the PMD100 HDCD decoder chips -also- perform the oversampling and digital filtering functions. I don't think you can use them as just an HDCD decoder.

    The second generation PMD200 devices may be more flexible. For some reason I have it in the back of my mind that they're based on a FPGA, rather than an ASIC. They also need a micro-controller to get them started. My Sonic Frontiers DAC uses a little PIC controller for this. Unfortunately, I have even less info on that chip.

    I'll take a harder look for this stuff on the weekend, and let you know if I find anything interesting....

    Cheers,

    Dave

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