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  1. #1
    Michael Amster
    Guest

    Tag organization question

    I have been going through my collection of about 430 albums with EasyTag
    and correcting to often horrendous job FreeDB does with this
    information. In going through, I have decided to tag artists last name
    first so that search and display is easier. I know that there has been
    some discussion about name vs. display info, but given that the Artist
    tag is the main one I use, how do people do the following. I have a
    number of Jazz Albums by:

    Bill Evans Trio
    Bud Powell Trio
    Dave Brubeck Quartet
    Harry Connick, Jr.

    I have chosen to put the Artist tag in as:

    Evans, Bill Trio
    Powell, Bud Trio
    Brubeck, Dave Quartet
    Connick, Harry Jr.

    Any hints on how people handle this same issue with their collections?
    My goal is to make this all make sense. It does not help when you have
    people with fake names like Iggy Pop - I guess that become Pop, Iggy - I
    have to go back to some record stores to see how they do it...

    -MA

  2. #2
    PAUL WILLIAMSON
    Guest

    Tag organization question

    >>> mamster (AT) wnx (DOT) com 07/05/05 1:47 PM >>>

    <snip>

    > I know that there has been some discussion about name
    > vs. display info, but given that the Artist tag is the main
    > one I use, how do people do the following. I have a number
    > of Jazz Albums by:
    >
    > Bill Evans Trio
    > Bud Powell Trio
    > Dave Brubeck Quartet
    > Harry Connick, Jr.
    >
    > I have chosen to put the Artist tag in as:
    >
    > Evans, Bill Trio
    > Powell, Bud Trio
    > Brubeck, Dave Quartet
    > Connick, Harry Jr.


    These (IMHO) should be:

    Evans Trio, Bill
    Powell Trio, Bud
    Brubeck Quartet, Dave
    Connick, Jr., Harry

    At least this is how I do it.

    > Any hints on how people handle this same issue with their
    > collections? My goal is to make this all make sense. It
    > does not help when you have people with fake names
    > like Iggy Pop - I guess that become Pop, Iggy - I
    > have to go back to some record stores to see how they do it...


    What makes it more interesting is bands named after people..
    Seemingly simple tags like:

    Lynryd Skynyrd
    The Dave Mathews Band
    George Thorogood & The Delware Destroyers
    Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band
    Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble
    The Pat Metheny Group

    What do they become? I've started thinking I'm going to redo
    all my tags to just be regular format, rather than the system
    I've come up with for alphabetizing every song I have. It
    makes sense to me, but everyone else that comes over to play
    something is used to looking for it under "George Thorogood"
    but I've conveniently placed it under "Thorogood, George" and
    that is confusing to them.

    Paul


  3. #3
    Senior Member JJZolx's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Amster
    I have been going through my collection of about 430 albums with EasyTag
    and correcting to often horrendous job FreeDB does with this
    information. In going through, I have decided to tag artists last name
    first so that search and display is easier. I know that there has been
    some discussion about name vs. display info, but given that the Artist
    tag is the main one I use, how do people do the following. I have a
    number of Jazz Albums by:

    Bill Evans Trio
    Bud Powell Trio
    Dave Brubeck Quartet
    Harry Connick, Jr.

    I have chosen to put the Artist tag in as:

    Evans, Bill Trio
    Powell, Bud Trio
    Brubeck, Dave Quartet
    Connick, Harry Jr.

    Any hints on how people handle this same issue with their collections?
    My goal is to make this all make sense. It does not help when you have
    people with fake names like Iggy Pop - I guess that become Pop, Iggy - I
    have to go back to some record stores to see how they do it...
    I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname, firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band names.

    One thing I don't do is distinguish between trios, quartets, quintets, sextets, etc., etc. formed by an artist, even with such famed groups as the Bill Evans Trio or the Miles Davis Quintet. I'd much rather have all of Miles Davis led work in one place - it's much easier when browsing by artist, which is my usual approach.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ketelhaven, the Netherlands
    Posts
    39

    Re: Tag organization question

    > I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be
    > gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname,
    > firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the
    > two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I
    > treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band
    > names.


    Same here, CDs on the shelves by last name, the tags on the files by first
    name. Avoids having to wrap your head around stuff like Sam the Sham and
    the Pharaos. And besides, it kinda makes me feel good, being on a first
    name basis with all those famous people in my library. :-)

    Niek.


  5. #5
    A.J. Aranyosi
    Guest

    Re: Tag organization question

    In response to a comment I added to a bug report, Ben Sandee told me,
    although I haven't tried this yet, that SlimServer supports certain
    ID3v2 tags that let you specify sorting criteria that are separate
    from the artist/album name. These tags are TSOP and TSOA for
    performer and album sort order, respectively. For example, you can
    have the artist tag set to "David Bowie" and the TSOP tag set to
    "Bowie, David". Then Bowie will fall between The Beatles and The
    Buzzcocks alphabetically, but still be listed as "David Bowie".

    On 7/6/05, Niek Jongerius <niek (AT) qwertyboy (DOT) org> wrote:
    > > I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be
    > > gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname,
    > > firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the
    > > two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I
    > > treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band
    > > names.

    >
    > Same here, CDs on the shelves by last name, the tags on the files by first
    > name. Avoids having to wrap your head around stuff like Sam the Sham and
    > the Pharaos. And besides, it kinda makes me feel good, being on a first
    > name basis with all those famous people in my library. :-)
    >
    > Niek.
    >
    >

  6. #6
    Ben Sandee
    Guest

    Re: Tag organization question

    On 7/6/05, A.J. Aranyosi <tootallforpony (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
    > In response to a comment I added to a bug report, Ben Sandee told me,
    > although I haven't tried this yet, that SlimServer supports certain
    > ID3v2 tags that let you specify sorting criteria that are separate
    > from the artist/album name. These tags are TSOP and TSOA for
    > performer and album sort order, respectively. For example, you can
    > have the artist tag set to "David Bowie" and the TSOP tag set to
    > "Bowie, David". Then Bowie will fall between The Beatles and The
    > Buzzcocks alphabetically, but still be listed as "David Bowie".


    Yep, I'm not the only one using these tags either. There are a few
    minor bugs open with respect to these tags but in general I find them
    very usable. I use MusicBrainz to autotag my mp3's and it
    automatically sets these tags for me.

    http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1306
    http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1636

    Ben

  7. #7

    Re: Tag organization question

    I also use firstname, lastname, but my question to both of you is: Why
    do you still have CDs on the shelf? Mine are all in boxes in the
    basement. ;-)

    Robert

    Niek Jongerius wrote:

    >>I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be
    >>gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname,
    >>firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the
    >>two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I
    >>treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band
    >>names.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Same here, CDs on the shelves by last name, the tags on the files by first
    >name. Avoids having to wrap your head around stuff like Sam the Sham and
    >the Pharaos. And besides, it kinda makes me feel good, being on a first
    >name basis with all those famous people in my library. :-)
    >
    >Niek.
    >
    >

  8. #8
    Michael Amster
    Guest

    Re: Tag organization question

    Ben Sandee wrote:

    >On 7/6/05, A.J. Aranyosi <tootallforpony (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In response to a comment I added to a bug report, Ben Sandee told me,
    >>although I haven't tried this yet, that SlimServer supports certain
    >>ID3v2 tags that let you specify sorting criteria that are separate
    >>from the artist/album name. These tags are TSOP and TSOA for
    >>performer and album sort order, respectively. For example, you can
    >>have the artist tag set to "David Bowie" and the TSOP tag set to
    >>"Bowie, David". Then Bowie will fall between The Beatles and The
    >>Buzzcocks alphabetically, but still be listed as "David Bowie".
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Yep, I'm not the only one using these tags either. There are a few
    >minor bugs open with respect to these tags but in general I find them
    >very usable. I use MusicBrainz to autotag my mp3's and it
    >automatically sets these tags for me.
    >
    >http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1306
    >http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1636
    >
    >Ben
    >
    >
    >

    This is exactly what I want. I have been using EasyTag. I will see if
    it supports TSOP and TSOA. What platform does MusicBrainz run on (I am
    Linux at home)?

  9. #9
    Ben Sandee
    Guest

    Re: Tag organization question

    On 7/6/05, Michael Amster <mamster (AT) wnx (DOT) com> wrote:
    > This is exactly what I want. I have been using EasyTag. I will see if
    > it supports TSOP and TSOA. What platform does MusicBrainz run on (I am
    > Linux at home)?


    Michael,

    You can see for yourself at musicbrainz.org. The SDK is GPL but the
    main tagging program itself is for Windows (and it looks like some
    sort of Mac OS X tagger is available too). A google search revealed a
    few apps that embed the musicbrainz SDK but I have not used any of
    them. You might check out Picard:

    http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/wiki.pl?PicardTagger

    This is the development version of the musicbrainz tagger.

    HTH,

    Ben

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ketelhaven, the Netherlands
    Posts
    39

    Re: Tag organization question

    > I also use firstname, lastname, but my question to both of you is: Why
    > do you still have CDs on the shelf? Mine are all in boxes in the
    > basement. ;-)


    I've got my shelves behind glass doors in the living room. Nowadays it's
    merely decoration I guess (I haven't got anything else collection-wise
    to display there).

    Niek.


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