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  1. #11
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvromans@squirrel.nl View Post
    When a commercial (or similar big) party forks a (substantial) open source
    project, it would be nice if they would show some gratitude, preferably in
    the form of giving back bug fixes and/or enhancements. This always leads to
    mutual benefit.
    I agree and thatís more likely going to happen with the vendor we are talking about here since they already participate in the community.

    I guess what Iím saying is that we should try to encourage and welcome commercial vendors who are interested to participate in the community, some will contribute code, other will contribute experience and other kind of feedback. Some might just contribute more community members by clearly declare that they use LMS in their solution and offer a non geek hardware to use with LMS. All types of contributions are a good thing for the community and will make it grow it rather than slowly degrade and disappear.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Developer of many plugins/applets
    Starting with LMS 8.0 I no longer support my plugins/applets (see here for more information )

  2. #12
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    Putting aside the irrelevant discussion on what open source software means (I get it!), it really wasn't my point.

    I've managed to sort out in my mind what I am uneasy about (note "uneasy", I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong)

    At the moment I have a relationship with the users of the plugins I have developed.
    They have to choose to install the plugin, they know they are doing it at their own risk (it says so when they install in the 3rd party plugin section in LMS).
    They know I am doing it for free, they trust me because I am part of the community and they know support is best endeavours.

    If my plugins come pre-installed as part of a commercial product, I lose that relationship. The users think they are getting it as part of what they paid for and the support dynamic completely changes. Which is why I think it would have been polite for them to contact me.

    That's what I was uneasy about. You may well say that's the risk I took when I chose the licence, which is a fair point and I don't disagree.
    Last edited by expectingtofly; 2021-03-11 at 03:04.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    I agree and that’s more likely going to happen with the vendor we are talking about here since they already participate in the community.

    I guess what I’m saying is that we should try to encourage and welcome commercial vendors who are interested to participate in the community, some will contribute code, other will contribute experience and other kind of feedback. Some might just contribute more community members by clearly declare that they use LMS in their solution and offer a non geek hardware to use with LMS. All types of contributions are a good thing for the community and will make it grow it rather than slowly degrade and disappear.
    Yes but whether we like it or not, GPL v2 and above forces "forkers" (no pun intended) to return their contribution. Maybe not in a form of a well-done patch, but they can't hide/keep it
    LMS 8.2 on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  4. #14
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    Just to close this thread off from my point of view. PolyVection have now contacted me and have been the model of politeness, so my momentary gripe is now invalid.

  5. #15
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    This is an interesting discussion. I tend to agree with Michael the fact that PolyVection have engaged with the community prior to launching their products (and giving us pre-order discount) speaks volumes for their intent. Had I had the necessary cash a few years ago I would have tried to do similar. Apart from not having the cash the other thing that made it a non starter from my perspective was the UI but Material has changed that and some.

    I'm waiting for my DAC32s and have ordered a CORE32 but assuming that these work as anticipated the big remaining question so far as I am concerned is - Support - not for the majority of us here now obviously but for the newbies that the products are primarily aimed to attract. We don't at present know what PolyVection's plans are in this area - or do some of us already know and its not been shared? I wouldn't want the burden to fall on the existing community unless there was something in return. What that something should be I'm not sure - perhaps some financial support for Forum update and hosting? I'm just thinking out loud.
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  6. #16
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    as always with doing business, it's connected to risk and the guts to take those risks.
    You should do a market research before you start, but you can't check everything and plan for everything.
    So, if the newbie base is there (i don't know) then the support resources could be adapted.
    But time will tell.

  7. #17
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I wouldn't want the burden to fall on the existing community unless there was something in return. What that something should be I'm not sure - perhaps some financial support for Forum update and hosting? I'm just thinking out loud.
    I think Logitech still pays for the forum and hosting so I donít think thatís an issue as long as Logitech is happy to pay for it.

    Back in the SlimDevices and early Logitech days 10-15 years ago I remember they offered community people to participate in early access programs with free hardware and arranged a bug hunting contest with hardware prices and other similar things. I think returning this kind of things to community members is one of the best ways for a company to get community engaged in their hardware and encourage people to help supporting their users.

    Of course this is probably not an option in the beginning when they sell small volumes but as long as the volumes are low itís not a significant burden for the community to support a few beginners.

    Contributing back improved code isnít always easy as it usually takes time for someone else to understand it and adapt it to the LMS code style.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Developer of many plugins/applets
    Starting with LMS 8.0 I no longer support my plugins/applets (see here for more information )

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by expectingtofly View Post
    Just to close this thread off from my point of view. PolyVection have now contacted me and have been the model of politeness, so my momentary gripe is now invalid.
    Just want to second the fact that @sle118 and I we had very good and friendly exchanges with PolyVection (although we have no commercial/business connection, just to make that clear). I'm personally super happy to see them carrying that flag of new devices for LMS.
    LMS 8.2 on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  9. #19
    jvromans@squirrel.nl
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    Commercial use of community provided open sourcesoftware

    On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 17:27:31 +0000, erland wrote:

    > Contributing back improved code isn_t always easy as it usually takes
    > time for someone else to understand it and adapt it to the LMS code
    > style.


    I assume they did. Personally I wouldn't start a company based on open
    source products unless I'm very confident I can maintain (and develop, if
    necessary) myself.

    -- Johan

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