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  1. #1
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    BlueSound or Innuos better than a Touch?

    Hi Audiophile chaps,

    A couple of months ago, I have converted an audiophile friend of mine to Squeezebox.

    He has the following equipment:

    - AMP: YBA ligne2 Alpha high current
    - Speakers: B&W CM9
    - DAC: TEAC UD 501
    - expensive cables :-)
    - LMS on Pi4 wired on Network
    - SB Touch on Wifi that is connected to the DAC via Coax.

    Recently he has contacted a high-end Hifi shop to ask what he should be upgrading in order to have an even better sound quality. The owner was clear: for him the weakest point from his set up was LMS and the Touch.

    For him, a good streamer would bring a huge quality improvement even if connected digitally to an external DAC.

    He told him to either buy a Bluesound Node 2i (with or without the Teac DAC) or move to an Innuos Zen Mini mk3 (with LMS or Roon) that could be equipped with an external powersupply.


    I am not sure I understand why LMS/Touch connected to a DAC or any other solutions to the same DAC could be better: at the end of the day, that's the DAC who will do the job, isn't it?

    Any recommendation I could give to my friend?

    Cheers!
    Last edited by didjean; 2020-11-29 at 07:48.
    Transporter, Touch, SB3, SB2, Duet, Booms, Radios, piCorePlayer --- iPeng & Material --- LMS Version: 8.2.0 - 1619381438 on Pi4 4GB - Max2Play --- Qobuz

  2. #2
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    He needs to change audio dealers! The possibility of better sound quality with the Touch feeding the DAC vs any of the recommended units is essentially zero. But of course you'll likely receive lots of posts arguing the opposite. That's the nature of audiophile discussions. Someone will eventually tell you that he really needs an expense "audiophile" ethernet switch and a few $3,000 ethernet connect cables.

    Your friend should read some at Archimago's blog. Here's one relevant post:
    http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/0...t-digital.html

    edit: If he is super interested in mostly playing 24/192 files, he might want something other than a Touch. But that's just because the Touch and Transporter do only 24/96 natively. The Touch has a hack that can allow it to do 24/192 (see EDO threads).
    Last edited by garym; 2020-11-29 at 08:00.
    Home: Pi4B-8GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B-4GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>hifiberry Dac+Pro (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dBpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; Streaming: Spotify

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by didjean View Post
    Hi Audiophile chaps,

    A couple of months ago, I have converted an audiophile friend of mine to Squeezebox.

    He has the following equipment:

    - AMP: YBA ligne2 Alpha high current
    - Speakers: B&W CM9
    - DAC: TEAC UD 501
    - expensive cables :-)
    - LMS on Pi4 wired on Network
    - SB Touch on Wifi that is connected to the DAC via Coax.

    Recently he has contacted a high-end Hifi shop to ask what he should be upgrading in order to have an even better sound quality. The owner was clear: for him the weakest point from his set up was LMS and the Touch.

    For him, a good streamer would bring a huge quality improvement even if connected digitally to an external DAC.

    He told him to either buy a Bluesound Node 2i (with or without the Teac DAC) or move to an Innuos Zen Mini mk3 (with LMS or Roon) that could be equipped with an external powersupply.


    I am not sure I understand why LMS/Touch connected to a DAC or any other solutions to the same DAC could be better: at the end of the day, that's the DAC who will do the job, isn't it?

    Any recommendation I could give to my friend?

    Cheers!
    I think the audio dealer knows very little about Squeezebox but just happens to sell the items he recommended. The TEAC has a USB input so he could try that with the EDO add on for the Touch. Why is he dissatisfied with the sound?

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by slartibartfast View Post
    I think the audio dealer knows very little about Squeezebox but just happens to sell the items he recommended.
    Yep, follow the money.....
    Home: Pi4B-8GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B-4GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>hifiberry Dac+Pro (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dBpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; Streaming: Spotify

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by didjean View Post


    Recently he has contacted a high-end Hifi shop to ask what he should be upgrading in order to have an even better sound quality. The owner was clear: for him the weakest point from his set up was LMS and the Touch.

    For him, a good streamer would bring a huge quality improvement even if connected digitally to an external DAC.

    He told him to either buy a Bluesound Node 2i (with or without the Teac DAC) or move to an Innuos Zen Mini mk3 (with LMS or Roon) that could be equipped with an external powersupply.


    I am not sure I understand why LMS/Touch connected to a DAC or any other solutions to the same DAC could be better: at the end of the day, that's the DAC who will do the job, isn't it?

    Any recommendation I could give to my friend?
    As with other replies, the advice is to ignore the shop, the guy is talking nonsense. The hard part is probably getting your friend to believe this as there's so much repetition of this sort of rubbish out there (review websites, youtube, most audio forums).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tw99 View Post
    As with other replies, the advice is to ignore the shop, the guy is talking nonsense. The hard part is probably getting your friend to believe this as there's so much repetition of this sort of rubbish out there (review websites, youtube, most audio forums).
    Yes, that's the sad part. Lots of "fake news". Tell your friend to read archimago's blog carefully and forums at "hydrogenaudi.o".
    This will keep him grounded and away from all the audiophools.
    Home: Pi4B-8GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B-4GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>hifiberry Dac+Pro (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dBpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; Streaming: Spotify

  7. #7
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    Ahahaha. Audiophools, I like that! :-) Thanks guys! You've just confirmed what I thought.

    I started doubting when I saw that there was that EDO addon for the Touch and therefore was wondering if "transport" could be potentially improved.

    on his side I think that he is quite happy with the sound quality so far, but as he is seeing and hearing comments about expensive streamers out there, I think he was starting to doubt about his current streaming setup.
    Transporter, Touch, SB3, SB2, Duet, Booms, Radios, piCorePlayer --- iPeng & Material --- LMS Version: 8.2.0 - 1619381438 on Pi4 4GB - Max2Play --- Qobuz

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by didjean View Post
    Ahahaha. Audiophools, I like that! :-) Thanks guys! You've just confirmed what I thought.

    I started doubting when I saw that there was that EDO addon for the Touch and therefore was wondering if "transport" could be potentially improved.

    on his side I think that he is quite happy with the sound quality so far, but as he is seeing and hearing comments about expensive streamers out there, I think he was starting to doubt about his current streaming setup.
    No matter what he buys, and how expensive, there will be other, more expensive and *supposedly* night and day better streamers/DACs that he will want. Audiophoolery is an almost incurable disease. And an expensive one.

    p.s. I'm not an EDO user or that knowledgeable about it. But one of its main uses was to allow one to feed a DAC via the USB out of the TOUCH. And a secondary benefit was to allow for 24/192 playback. But neither of these things necessarily change the sound quality. Some people just had DACs with only USB input they wanted to use. And I'd be shocked if anyone could tell the difference in a double-blind test between 24/192 file playback with EDO vs 24/192 file playback using LMS's automatic downsampling that is applied to play 24/192 files.
    Home: Pi4B-8GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B-4GB/pCP8.x/4TB>LMS 8.2.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>hifiberry Dac+Pro (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dBpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; Streaming: Spotify

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by didjean View Post
    Ahahaha. Audiophools, I like that! :-) Thanks guys! You've just confirmed what I thought.

    I started doubting when I saw that there was that EDO addon for the Touch and therefore was wondering if "transport" could be potentially improved.

    on his side I think that he is quite happy with the sound quality so far, but as he is seeing and hearing comments about expensive streamers out there, I think he was starting to doubt about his current streaming setup.
    I think a lot of expensive streamers are just a raspberry Pi in a fancy box.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    I'm a on a budget audiophile with aging ears, but I have always believed in putting your money in what you hear (speakers, headphones), and anything else that creates the analog signal (turntable, DAC), and allot of the rest comes down to supporting those components (enough power), and minimizing what is added (noise, distortion, color, etc)

    My main system is a touch into an oppo BDP105D (nice DA section, a $600 upgrade over the 103), I also have a second system with a touch into a Schitt Bifrost D/A (about $600 USD). I have done an A/B of both systems with the DAC's vs touch doing the DAC, and in my aging ears, the difference is significant. The Oppo and Schitt comparison - I couldn't tell.

    So, I am +1 on the DAC, or those speakers you have been admiring

    Jim

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