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  1. #1

    Artist Sort Confusion - LMS listing Sting with the C's

    I have gone thru my whole music library to revise tagging to try and ensure proper presentation of the Artist list but it is still messed up for me.

    Example, I have many albums by Sting, and in these albums:
    Artist = Sting
    Album Artist = Sting
    Sort Artist = Sting
    Sort Album Artist = Sting

    However, I have one album by Chris Botti in which there is a song he did with Sting. For this single track:
    Artist = Chris Botti; Sting
    Album Artist = Chris Botti
    Sort Artist = Botti, Chris; Sting
    Sort Album Artist = Botti, Chris

    The confusion I have with LMS is that when I sort by Artist, I get the following:
    - I have Chris Botti appearing as an Artist (in the "B's" as it should be) and if I select him, this album and this track appear along with all other albums and tracks (correct as I want it)
    - I have Sting appearing as an Artist and if I select him, this album and this track appear as do all other Sting Albums and tracks ... HOWEVER ... Sting appears in the list of "C's" between "David Chesky" and "Clannad" ... LMS has sorted all Sting content based upon the one track that appears on an Album with Chris Botti and has placed the "Sting" listing where "Chris Botti" would be but has the artist name of Sting appearing here. There is no listing for "Sting" in the "S" listing?

    Why isn't it placing Sting with the "S's"?
    Why has it placed Sting in the "C's" when the sort order for Chris Botti should be to sort by last name and in fact all the Chris Botti entries are placed with the "B's" based on last name.

    Note: LMS is set up to use a single list that combines "artist" and "album artist" and the ";" character is listed as a delimiter to separate entries. I tried using two separate lists but that effect was even worse since I could not stop LMS from then listing all the composers etc. which I don't want to see at all - that was even more cluttered and messed up in my Artist list.

    Any suggestions on why it is behaving this way or what I can do to get Sting to sort to the "S" listing would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    I hate the way LMS works. It's clumsy, clunky, and not intuitive. Unfortunately i doubt much will change.

    My guess is that LMS for the artist's list is deciding on one entry only per album or track even if there are multiple artists, and the fact that the one multi artist track u have ropes in the rest of sting on an artist list is probably a separate bug or at the very least unintentional. I could be wrong, just guessing.

    My advice would be for LMS to change. "Track artists" should make up the artist list. Album artists make up the album artist list. After those two defaults, users can define their own views to include or exclude whatever they want, including a mega master list that had: artists, album artists, and whatever else like composers (and optionally?) merged.

    LMS has improved on this since I started using it, but bc of ancient bad decisions and the feared complexity of undoing the damage by them, the root issues haven't been addressed and so however improved it gets it still feels wonky and kludgey.

    I know michael is doing yeomans work, but if someone like Erland would fork a new version that finally addressed this stuff in the core app, and not as a plugin, that would be so helpful.

    A fork that had better scanning logic, that didn't create DB roles that don't exist in tags, that cleaned up compilation handling and queries, etc... it would create such a better overall experience. Anyone familiar with winamp and it's smart views understands the frustrations LMS presents, esp given its real DB horsepower.

    Sorry for the rant and going OT... it's just that I wish some of the big brains here would attempt such a ground up reworking, without the restraints and excuses of past decisions or hardware, etc... let's get something sensible and then figure out how to port it.
    Using: Win10 64 + LMS 8 & Duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph..._Artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

  3. #3
    any suggestions on how to retag to work around the problem - tag it in such a way that LMS can't mess up? I doubt it but thought I'd ask...

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Have u tried the other method? I think in mp3tag it's //

    I don't use more than one frame for any given field, and or more than one value for any one frame, but maybe LMS would behave differently using the mp3tag // as opposed to the ; delimiting character?
    Using: Win10 64 + LMS 8 & Duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph..._Artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Perhaps stating the obvious but have you done a full clear & rescan? This sort of change is often missed by a new & changed scan.
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TXNR686 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Joggler & Pi3 -> Denon RCD N8 -> Celestion F10s
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi Zero+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) & Bathroom - SB Touch ->Denon AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s + Pioneer ceiling speakers
    Guest Room - Joggler > Topping Amp -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Everything controlled by iPeng & Material on iOS

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJW View Post
    Have u tried the other method? I think in mp3tag it's //

    I don't use more than one frame for any given field, and or more than one value for any one frame, but maybe LMS would behave differently using the mp3tag // as opposed to the ; delimiting character?
    In mp3tag, one creates multi-value tag fields using '\\' (two back slashes) between the items, e.g., Miles Davis\\Bob Dorough
    Home: VBA2.5 4TB or rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 8.0.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 8.0.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (ethernet except Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    In mp3tag, one creates multi-value tag fields using '\\' (two back slashes) between the items, e.g., Miles Davis\\Bob Dorough
    I think Iím right in saying that \\ in mp3tag creates 2 tags with the same name and that the LMS scanner reads both but that said itís also supposed to read a single tag with 2 values separated by ; as two db entries.
    It would be interesting to know what exactly the OPs library.db contains.
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TXNR686 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Joggler & Pi3 -> Denon RCD N8 -> Celestion F10s
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi Zero+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) & Bathroom - SB Touch ->Denon AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s + Pioneer ceiling speakers
    Guest Room - Joggler > Topping Amp -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Everything controlled by iPeng & Material on iOS

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I think Iím right in saying that \\ in mp3tag creates 2 tags with the same name and that the LMS scanner reads both but that said itís also supposed to read a single tag with 2 values separated by ; as two db entries.
    It would be interesting to know what exactly the OPs library.db contains.
    you are correct.
    Home: VBA2.5 4TB or rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 8.0.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 8.0.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (ethernet except Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify

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