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  1. #1
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    Advice for next player

    Hi, I'm looking for some advice/help deciding solution for next SB player.

    I'm trying to use my old (long collecting dust) active speakers (Behringer MS40 "monitors") in conservatory. Due to covid-19 situation I'm looking at best budget option

    I had a go at old Xperia Z1 Compact smartphone with Squeezeplayer and Tasker, but I'm unable to get sync with other players (SB Touch and SB Radio). Also as phone isn't rooted (+locked bootloader) and without functional touchscreen, android " Loud volume warning" is real pain. I'm not sure if I can root it without touchscreen and wouldn't want to brick it as it works perfectly as Dashcam with HW buttons/tasker.

    I actually have Raspberry Pi 3 B with OSMC/KODI sitting in Lounge next to SB touch. I could perhaps get DAC hat for raspi to use it instead of Touch then re-purpose SB Touch in conservatory.
    But:
    Which HAT to buy? Is there any cheap decent one?
    Would I get real sync with raspi/squeezelite alongside KODI on OSMC? Does it matter OSMC runs with VPN?
    Would SB touch be ok sitting in conservatory which at times can be bit like green house. I know I live in UK, but on sunny summer day it can get there 35-40C if I forget to open windows.

    I'm also considering 2nd hand devices.
    It would be nice to get another SB Touch, but probably not possible for less then £80-100.
    Maybe " Duet receiver" which seem to be bit cheaper, however I don't have any experience with it. Would legacy devices sync properly with Touch/Radio? Any drawback using them in 2020?
    SqueezeAMP is probably overkill with MS40/ conservatory and not that cheap with shipping to UK..

    Decisions Decisions Decisions
    anyway that's my current LMS dilemma
    Any advice/suggestions much appreciated
    Thanks!
    3x Squeezebox Touch, 3x Squeezebox Radio, Squeezelite (RPi with HiFiBerry DAC+Pro), Material Skin Apk, Squeeze Commander, Logitech Media Server Version: 8.0.0 with Material Skin

  2. #2
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    I would say "NO" to the Duet, unless you already have one.

    A spdif hat on the rpi3B would be the cheapest option (look on the UK hi-fi forums at stuff for sale)

    Test the set-up first with your SBT into the speakers via connection of choice (a regular rca cable will suffice for co-ax)

    Decide which volume control you are going to use as "Master"

    An official Squeezeboxen should have no sync problems, so look for a SBT

    ronnie

  3. #3
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    Just for fun ... try the audio jack on the RPi and plug it into HiFi ... then run a Squeezelite on it with the output set to that.
    Not high quality but old ears might not mind too much.
    Paul Webster
    http://dabdig.blogspot.com
    Author of "Now Playing" plugins covering Radio France (FIP etc), KCRW, Supla Finland, ABC Australia, CBC/Radio-Canada and RTE Ireland

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Webster View Post
    Just for fun ... try the audio jack on the RPi and plug it into HiFi ... then run a Squeezelite on it with the output set to that.
    Not high quality but old ears might not mind too much.
    Good idea, especiall using RaspberryPI OS with Squeezelite (I find the output volume on the headphone jack is a bit low, but not noisy at all).

    Another idea, is an O2 Joggler running the new Squeezeplay, again the headphone output is OK (and I have run a khadas toneboard from the usb jack, no problemo)

    ronnie

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man in a van View Post
    I would say "NO" to the Duet, unless you already have one.


    ronnie
    I would agree with Ronnie on the Duet Receiver, except might add "unless you can get one real cheap". I have several duet receivers, and have had problems with them in the past (primarily due to wifi), but on ethernet, or wifi from a very short distance, mine work solid. All of mine are on ethernet now.

    Analog and digital outputs, and yes, they sync just fine. They appear and work in the sb system just like any other player. They are small and unobtrusive.

    I also still find the controllers useful, but more of a "now playing" screen. Example, while in my workshop, I might hear a song, "what is this?" and just walk over to glance at it, rather than pulling my phone out of my pocket and launching material or squeezecntrl. But, if you can find a cheap Duet system, the controllers are useful, or you can turn around and sell it on it's own.

    The only thing I am unsure of, as I have never done it, is "setting up" the receiver using as touch, or other device. I have always used a controller.

    On ebay here in the US I have seen them listed and sell cheap (say $30 - $50USD), so maybe its an inexpensive option for your need...The Duet was $300USD new, so there is some nice hardware in there...

    I would never buy another, I would just go the Rpi route, but, that involves the build, the hat, the case, etc which while inexpensive, still adds up.

    Jim

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
    I would agree with Ronnie on the Duet Receiver, except might add "unless you can get one real cheap". I have several duet receivers, and have had problems with them in the past (primarily due to wifi), but on ethernet, or wifi from a very short distance, mine work solid. All of mine are on ethernet now.

    Analog and digital outputs, and yes, they sync just fine. They appear and work in the sb system just like any other player. They are small and unobtrusive.

    I also still find the controllers useful, but more of a "now playing" screen. Example, while in my workshop, I might hear a song, "what is this?" and just walk over to glance at it, rather than pulling my phone out of my pocket and launching material or squeezecntrl. But, if you can find a cheap Duet system, the controllers are useful, or you can turn around and sell it on it's own.

    The only thing I am unsure of, as I have never done it, is "setting up" the receiver using as touch, or other device. I have always used a controller.

    On ebay here in the US I have seen them listed and sell cheap (say $30 - $50USD), so maybe its an inexpensive option for your need...The Duet was $300USD new, so there is some nice hardware in there...

    I would never buy another, I would just go the Rpi route, but, that involves the build, the hat, the case, etc which while inexpensive, still adds up.

    Jim
    I’d go Pi but if the HAT isn’t an option due to case then a USB DAC such as Audioquest Dragonfly.
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man in a van View Post
    Good idea, especiall using RaspberryPI OS with Squeezelite (I find the output volume on the headphone jack is a bit low, but not noisy at all).

    Another idea, is an O2 Joggler running the new Squeezeplay, again the headphone output is OK (and I have run a khadas toneboard from the usb jack, no problemo)

    ronnie
    @Ronnie

    What do you think of the toneboard using USB input?
    Does the Joggler support 24/192 (or higher) passthrough over USB - I thought it was limited to 16/44.1 ?
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  8. #8
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    Nov 2012
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    UK, Lincolnshire
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    Thank you everyone!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Webster View Post
    Just for fun ... try the audio jack on the RPi and plug it into HiFi ... then run a Squeezelite on it with the output set to that.
    Not high quality but old ears might not mind too much.
    Just testing it right now. I've managed to install Squeezelite on RPi OSMC. KODI's VPN doesn't affect player visibility on network which is great. Only issue I have so far I'm only able to use audio thru HDMI connected to TV. Changing card in Squeezelite doesn't seem to work properly unless I'm doing smth wrong.. 3.5mm headphones output only worked when I disconnected HDMI from RPi, but audio was slowed down..( like half speed or smth really weird). Maybe its smth to do with OSMC system, I don't know. As this RPi is used as KODI it needs to be connected to TV via HDMI so I'm hoping DAC hat will solve this problem. BTW sounds in chain RPi-> HDMI -> TV -> HiFi seems OK. I think I have heard initially few "pops" between songs but haven't noticed many. BTW sync seem work perfectly fine so far (lat 30ish min) with small adjustment to player audio delay in LMS settings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
    I would never buy another, I would just go the Rpi route, but, that involves the build, the hat, the case, etc which while inexpensive, still adds up.

    Jim
    After initial test it seem like great idea and I agree I would rather not buy another extra gear if I can make better use of what I already have. Maybe with small hat upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I’d go Pi but if the HAT isn’t an option due to case then a USB DAC such as Audioquest Dragonfly.
    I'm not sure about case, its one with fan and removable top cover so I guess theoretically should be ok? I would need to double check hat dimensions.
    I read somewhere that USB DAC isn't best option for RPi 3, but maybe I misunderstood


    Quote Originally Posted by Man in a van View Post

    A spdif hat on the rpi3B would be the cheapest option (look on the UK hi-fi forums at stuff for sale)

    Test the set-up first with your SBT into the speakers via connection of choice (a regular rca cable will suffice for co-ax)

    ronnie
    Unfortunately I need DAC hat with RCA as my Lounge Hifi is non DAC Dennon amp.

    BTW conservatory MS40 works fine with touch .. it even spoils me with connection choice as there is optical input in addition to analog. (which one is better I really don't know)


    All this looks very very promising

    I was trying to find safe ambient temperature in SB Touch manual but no luck.. I wouldn't want to ruin my precious Touch. To be fair got same concern for MS40 speakers but had them for ages and those aren't very expensive. Strangely MS40 sound fills conservatory(mostly glass room) quite nicely. Maybe because those are near filed monitors with more narrow field?

    Anyway back to point. Has anyone used SB Touch in really hot environment?

    Next step is research for half-decent DAC hat at reasonable price tag.
    Many thanks!
    3x Squeezebox Touch, 3x Squeezebox Radio, Squeezelite (RPi with HiFiBerry DAC+Pro), Material Skin Apk, Squeeze Commander, Logitech Media Server Version: 8.0.0 with Material Skin

  9. #9
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    Feb 2011
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    I read somewhere that USB DAC isn't best option for RPi 3, but maybe I misunderstood
    The Pi3 has a shared bus between USB & LAN. Not the case with Pi4. So depends whether you are using LAN or WiFi with Pi3
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  10. #10
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    Nov 2012
    Location
    UK, Lincolnshire
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    The Pi3 has a shared bus between USB & LAN. Not the case with Pi4. So depends whether you are using LAN or WiFi with Pi3
    I'm using Wifi so I guess USB DAC should be just fine? thanks
    3x Squeezebox Touch, 3x Squeezebox Radio, Squeezelite (RPi with HiFiBerry DAC+Pro), Material Skin Apk, Squeeze Commander, Logitech Media Server Version: 8.0.0 with Material Skin

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