Home of the Squeezebox™ & Transporter® network music players.
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 25 of 25
  1. #21
    Senior Member SlimChances's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycenius View Post
    Without doubt the vast majority of the world's music recordings are recorded and engineered ineptly or incompetently. And quite a few "highly regarded" sound engineers are pretty woeful, or at best extremely mediocre.
    \
    Seems a bit cynical and rather doubtful. Yes recordings for the last 20 years or so have been baly influenced by the Loudness Wars and other forms of compression but there are still producers, engineers and musicians that care deeply about the quality of the music they make.

    see this explanation of what has gone wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaRIW-wZlw
    • Version: 8.0.0 - 1579900545 @ Fri Jan 24 22:48:53 CET 2020
    • Operating system: Debian - EN - utf8
    • Platform Architecture: x86_64-linux
    • Perl Version: 5.26.1 - x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    • IO::Socket::SSL: 2.060
    • Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.58 (sqlite 3.22.0)

    One SB Touch connected by Ethernet - Denon AVR -1912 Receiver, Paradigm 4.1 speakers
    SB Classic connected by Optical to FX Audio D802C amp and Sinclair bookshelf speakers
    Two SB Radios wireless

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    South Coast, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,264
    I have been watching this thread evolve.

    Over in the Klipsch forums (I have Klipschorns) a fellow has been re-mastering his CDs. Well worth a read -
    https://community.klipsch.com/index....estore-tracks/
    A camel is a racehorse designed by a committee.

    Seen sprayed on the outside wall of the local library -
    Three things I hate in life :
    1. Vandalism
    2. Irony
    3. Lists

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycenius View Post
    Without doubt the vast majority of the world's music recordings are recorded and engineered ineptly or incompetently. And quite a few "highly regarded" sound engineers are pretty woeful, or at best extremely mediocre.
    Without disagreeing with that statement, I think it's worthwhile to remember that, for the people who do it, sound recording can be many things: an art, a science, a skillset, a passion, a sacred mission. But in most cases, it's also a job. And, as with most jobs, there are good days and bad days, and there are tasks that must be done, even if they don't work out as one would like. And there are often compelling incentives to do the job in ways that are incompatible with accurate audio reproduction.
    LMS 8 nightly; 3 Squeezelite players connected by powerline ethernet; 5 wireless players connected via Airplay Bridge; 1 SqueezeAmp player
    no high-end or esoteric audio gear
    1 Squeezebox Radio (upgraded UE Smart Radio) now mostly retired

  4. #24
    Senior Member Mycenius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by SlimChances View Post
    Seems a bit cynical and rather doubtful. Yes recordings for the last 20 years or so have been baly influenced by the Loudness Wars and other forms of compression but there are still producers, engineers and musicians that care deeply about the quality of the music they make. see this explanation of what has gone wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaRIW-wZlw
    Yes the loudness wars have had a huge impact (and I think everyone is very familiar with that) - for around 25 years recording quality was seriously compromised - one of the many things that highlighted what was wrong with the music industry as a whole. Other factors also influence the quality of the recorded material released to the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbH View Post
    Without disagreeing with that statement, I think it's worthwhile to remember that, for the people who do it, sound recording can be many things: an art, a science, a skillset, a passion, a sacred mission. But in most cases, it's also a job. And, as with most jobs, there are good days and bad days, and there are tasks that must be done, even if they don't work out as one would like. And there are often compelling incentives to do the job in ways that are incompatible with accurate audio reproduction.
    Yes agree totally - there are many competent and many excellent recording engineers and/or producers out there - but as you say they will still have the off day, combine that with a lot of mediocre work and the loudness wars mentioned above I think we have been through a period where a very large amount of recorded material produced for public consumption isn't what it could be. And I don't think it's a cynical view - its just realistic and based on real world experience.

    It is heartening to see so much high quality recording & production these days, the outputs from many record labels are consistently high (such as Stockfisch, Blue Coast, Chesky, etc), the loudness wars seem to be over and there are more recording engineers and producers seem either more capable or more committed to the quality of output. I guess one could argue that recording engineers may well have always been generally good, but the producers are the ones who have undermined the output for consumption (e.g. due to the loudness war directives from the big record labels, etc, is one instance).

    As I think has been mentioned elsewhere artists also often have little or no input into the final production version of what gets commercially released, even if they have had a big say in the actual recording sessions. It's also important to remember that artists like Mark Knopfler, Sting, etc, are rare as they both (a) have the power to control exactly how their recordings are produced and released, and (b) even more importantly have very good 'critical ears' for listening to create the best sound (and that may not mean they have physically good hearing - as many artists ultimately end up with mild to badly damaged hearing - but in a more esoteric sense of understanding recording and playback capability & quality). While I only worked in the Hi-Fi & Professional Music area briefly it became apparent from experiences both during that time and outside of it many musicians may have fantastic 'ears' for live music and creativity, etc, and create and play amazing music but can still have a very average appreciation for playback of consumer recorded music (e.g. happy to listen to MP3s on earbuds and never listen in the way a music enthusiast or a positive* 'audiophile' might). This is by no means intended as a negative, its just a reality - when your music is often 'live' and intimate, or in concert type performances with PA systems and other wise in a recording studio the profile of the sound is quite different to how a consumer's home hi-fi, headphones, or similar designed for playback of a consumer recording, will sound. There are quite a lot of great artists out there who can produce their own recordings extremely well, but again this seems a recent phenomenon and previously they were probably very few and far between (given just how many recorded artists there have been over the years)...

    * I use 'positive' to exclude from the term audiophiles the rivet counters and snake oil types who focus on unquantified effects or highly subjective differences in hardware and such which has no bearing on, and usually detracts from, actually enjoying the music.

    Things are definitely better - but I think you would have to be the eternal optimist to think that the most recordings are produced for consumer playback as well as they could have been (at least over the modern period of the last 50-60 years).

    Anyway just my 2 cents. YMMV.
    Last edited by Mycenius; 2020-03-14 at 16:49. Reason: typo
    Hi-Fi 1: QNAP HS-453DX NAS+QLMS/Allo USBridge Signature+Shanti LPS/Cirrus ESS Sabre 32-bit Reference DAC (Oppo 105D)/Yamaha Aventage CX-A5000/Focal SM9s.
    Hi-Fi 2: Sqbox Touch+Shanti LPS/Focal XS Books.
    Hi-Fi 3: PC+Squeezelite-X+Material Skin/Focal XS Books.
    Head-Fi: Plantronics BB Pro 2 LE Headphones.
    Accessories: iPeng (iPhones/iPad Minis); Tchernov Classic & Van den Hul ICs; Thor PS10 Power Station; Blue Jeans & Ruleconnect Cables (Power, HDMI, USB & Coaxial); Aurios & Vibrapods.

  5. #25
    Senior Member pablolie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    bay area, california.
    Posts
    1,148
    I'd also like to pile it on when it comes to the quality of recordings.

    I find myself disagreeing with a lot of the stuff that is positioned as a super high recording standard out there.

    A lot of those are very sterile sounding, and rarely feature top artists and ensembles in a really inspired performance. It sounds sharp, but is "meh" artisitically, imho.

    Then there's the stuff everybody thinks every audiophile must cream his pants all over to be credible. Cliche stuff like Daft Punk's Random Access Memories. To me it's like "There's barely a single acoustic instrument reference point here, and they mixed this with musicians laying down their particular track all over the world and artificially mixing it together." If I hear anyone babbling about Nile Rodgers' "amazing dynamics" I'll crush their skull with an oversized wrench. Really.

    Is it odd some of my favorite recordings are 1960s tracks like Bill Evans' "Waltz for Debbie" or the Coltrane/Hartman album? There's also stuff like Kevin Mahogany's Enja albums, you can tell they were all *Present* in the performance, not listening to stuff on headphones by themselves while laying down their paid for track.

    And that is when the recording is good. I agree the majority of music is at best very indifferently recorded.
    ...pablo
    Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation) running Ubuntu 18.04 + LMS 7.9.1
    System: SB Touch -optical-> Benchmark DAC2HGC -AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR-> NAD M22 Power Amp -AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval-> KEF Reference 1
    Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub
    Computer audio: workstation -USB-> audioengine D1 -> Grado RS1/Shure 1540

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •