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  1. #41
    Senior Member philchillbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slartibartfast View Post
    When I say "assume touch" I get the response "that makes no sense you don't have a player called church hall"
    The FAQ section in the online docs mentions this on the subject of player names:

    During setup, the skill automatically retrieves the names of your players from your LMS server. Best results with the skill will be achieved if your players are named after the room in which they are situated, without possessives and without extra/qualifying words such as e.g. "player", "squeezebox" or "streamer".

    In other words, plain English single-word common names like "Livingroom", "Kitchen", "Study", "Office", "Garage", "Studio", "Bedroom", "Bathroom", "Diningroom", "Basement", "Guestroom", "Nursery", "Library", "Cellar", "Hall", "Lobby", "Conservatory", "Lounge", "Pantry", "Scullery", "Salon", "Washroom" all work perfectly and are easiest to utter as you get used to the skill.

    Names like "John's player", "Master bedroom", "Livingroom front player", "Bazinga" may work but will need to be verified by trial-and-error. Same for contrived single-word names like "Kidsroom", "Babyroom", "Spareroom" and "Alexandersroom". In the end, it's best to work with names that Alexa can understand consistently for your locale.


    Using Touch as a player name will cause endless grief. A design choice was made to require that the player name maps to a normal English-language room name (she has a built in list of what she thinks that includes). Leaving it wide-open to any category of name slows down command processing very noticeably and also causes her to add the vocals of background music to your utterance. That's why this decision was made for this skill.

  2. #42
    Senior Member philchillbill's Avatar
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    Much clearer but you do need to mention that ngrok needs to be installed correctly to /usr/bin - the install instructions at ngrok seem to ignore this hence everything is referenced as ./ngrok - it wouldn't matter if you aren't trying to run at startup but since we are ....
    Thanks for that suggestion - I've added it. The updated docs are now live.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by philchillbill View Post
    The FAQ section in the online docs mentions this on the subject of player names:

    During setup, the skill automatically retrieves the names of your players from your LMS server. Best results with the skill will be achieved if your players are named after the room in which they are situated, without possessives and without extra/qualifying words such as e.g. "player", "squeezebox" or "streamer".

    In other words, plain English single-word common names like "Livingroom", "Kitchen", "Study", "Office", "Garage", "Studio", "Bedroom", "Bathroom", "Diningroom", "Basement", "Guestroom", "Nursery", "Library", "Cellar", "Hall", "Lobby", "Conservatory", "Lounge", "Pantry", "Scullery", "Salon", "Washroom" all work perfectly and are easiest to utter as you get used to the skill.

    Names like "John's player", "Master bedroom", "Livingroom front player", "Bazinga" may work but will need to be verified by trial-and-error. Same for contrived single-word names like "Kidsroom", "Babyroom", "Spareroom" and "Alexandersroom". In the end, it's best to work with names that Alexa can understand consistently for your locale.


    Using Touch as a player name will cause endless grief. A design choice was made to require that the player name maps to a normal English-language room name (she has a built in list of what she thinks that includes). Leaving it wide-open to any category of name slows down command processing very noticeably and also causes her to add the vocals of background music to your utterance. That's why this decision was made for this skill.
    OK at the moment I have Touch, Black Radio and White Radio. I'll need to change them all. Maybe I'll change one to " Church Hall "

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by slartibartfast View Post
    OK at the moment I have Touch, Black Radio and White Radio. I'll need to change them all. Maybe I'll change one to " Church Hall "

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
    I hate the concept of using Rooms in these media systems (Sonos is a classic example of this!).

    I think in terms of devices - for example, I have 3 different devices in one room. I 'm reluctant to have sticky labels on each saying Livingroom1, Livingroom2, Livingroom 3

    Meep had a neat way of dealing with this - by allowing device names to be added to the backend system (database, I assume).

    Couldn't you offer something similar (maybe as an addon for paid subscriptions)?

    And, by the way, I haven't come across any details of the payment structure ....
    LMS server: O2 Joggler with Jivelite

    Amp: Denon PMA-50

    Players/Speakers: Touch, Logitech Radios, Sonos Play 1s & Beam, Libratone Zipp, GGMM E2 & E3, Yamaha WXAD-010, Loewe Airspeaker, Google Chromecast Audio, Home Mini & Nest Hub, Amazon Echo 2,3 and Show5, Pioneer WX-SMA1, Roberts S1, O2 Joggler, Cisco Joggler, Fiio M6, Avantree Priva BT transmitter

    Brexit = Still ∞ stupidity


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    Much clearer but you do need to mention that ngrok needs to be installed correctly to /usr/bin - the install instructions at ngrok seem to ignore this hence everything is referenced as ./ngrok - it wouldn't matter if you aren't trying to run at startup but since we are ....
    Is there any real benefit in having it run at start up as you still need to run the command to obtain the URL for the skill? I suppose it means running one command rather than two.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  6. #46
    Senior Member philchillbill's Avatar
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    Amazon does not allow mentioning details of payment until you start the ISP process verbally. Skills that do so fail certification. They also sometimes offer discounts for Prime members out of their own pocket and don't want people complaining when they don't get that. When you tell Alexa "I want a subscription", she will tell you.

    Livingroom1, Livingroom2 and Livingroom3 will also not work for you, stickers or not. They are not valid room bare-names.

    It's not a database issue, it's a build issue. When you ask a skill "what's playing on the {Playername} player?" the skill's intent-model has to have pre-warned her what values to remotely expect for Playername. Very frustratingly, that cannot be done on the fly based on your retrieved player names but must be pre-compiled. The slot 'type' which I have chosen is Amazon.ROOM which means "Names of rooms typical in houses and other buildings".

    There is a fairly new option to add Dynamic Entities to a type, but it only works after a type has already been used in a session and then persists for 30 mins in the cloud. Problem is, first time you used a non-Room player name, I could not have added that to the OK-list so your first command would always fail. I found that unacceptable in testing so didn't implement it. When Amazon allow the adding of Dynamic Entities to occur before the slot is processed, I'll certainly do it. But they don't share roadmaps.

    The meep solution was to add people's player names to the build so they get pre-compiled. That's fine for a dev/beta skill but not a certified one - every update to a certified skill has to go through a full re-certification cycle which is not trivial.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by philchillbill View Post
    Amazon does not allow mentioning details of payment until you start the ISP process verbally. Skills that do so fail certification. They also sometimes offer discounts for Prime members out of their own pocket and don't want people complaining when they don't get that. When you tell Alexa "I want a subscription", she will tell you.

    Livingroom1, Livingroom2 and Livingroom3 will also not work for you, stickers or not. They are not valid room bare-names.

    It's not a database issue, it's a build issue. When you ask a skill "what's playing on the {Playername} player?" the skill's intent-model has to have pre-warned her what values to remotely expect for Playername. Very frustratingly, that cannot be done on the fly based on your retrieved player names but must be pre-compiled. The slot 'type' which I have chosen is Amazon.ROOM which means "Names of rooms typical in houses and other buildings".

    There is a fairly new option to add Dynamic Entities to a type, but it only works after a type has already been used in a session and then persists for 30 mins in the cloud. Problem is, first time you used a non-Room player name, I could not have added that to the OK-list so your first command would always fail. I found that unacceptable in testing so didn't implement it. When Amazon allow the adding of Dynamic Entities to occur before the slot is processed, I'll certainly do it. But they don't share roadmaps.

    The meep solution was to add people's player names to the build so they get pre-compiled. That's fine for a dev/beta skill but not a certified one - every update to a certified skill has to go through a full re-certification cycle which is not trivial.
    Thanks for all the info!

    The name thing is probably a no-no for me - sadly. Back to struggling with openhab then.

    Good luck.
    LMS server: O2 Joggler with Jivelite

    Amp: Denon PMA-50

    Players/Speakers: Touch, Logitech Radios, Sonos Play 1s & Beam, Libratone Zipp, GGMM E2 & E3, Yamaha WXAD-010, Loewe Airspeaker, Google Chromecast Audio, Home Mini & Nest Hub, Amazon Echo 2,3 and Show5, Pioneer WX-SMA1, Roberts S1, O2 Joggler, Cisco Joggler, Fiio M6, Avantree Priva BT transmitter

    Brexit = Still ∞ stupidity


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by philchillbill View Post
    Amazon does not allow mentioning details of payment until you start the ISP process verbally. Skills that do so fail certification. They also sometimes offer discounts for Prime members out of their own pocket and don't want people complaining when they don't get that. When you tell Alexa "I want a subscription", she will tell you.

    Livingroom1, Livingroom2 and Livingroom3 will also not work for you, stickers or not. They are not valid room bare-names.

    It's not a database issue, it's a build issue. When you ask a skill "what's playing on the {Playername} player?" the skill's intent-model has to have pre-warned her what values to remotely expect for Playername. Very frustratingly, that cannot be done on the fly based on your retrieved player names but must be pre-compiled. The slot 'type' which I have chosen is Amazon.ROOM which means "Names of rooms typical in houses and other buildings".

    There is a fairly new option to add Dynamic Entities to a type, but it only works after a type has already been used in a session and then persists for 30 mins in the cloud. Problem is, first time you used a non-Room player name, I could not have added that to the OK-list so your first command would always fail. I found that unacceptable in testing so didn't implement it. When Amazon allow the adding of Dynamic Entities to occur before the slot is processed, I'll certainly do it. But they don't share roadmaps.

    The meep solution was to add people's player names to the build so they get pre-compiled. That's fine for a dev/beta skill but not a certified one - every update to a certified skill has to go through a full re-certification cycle which is not trivial.
    Is there an official list of acceptable room names? I can't imagine many using names like Scullery or Salon.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  9. #49
    Senior Member philchillbill's Avatar
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    Is there an official list of acceptable room names? I can't imagine many using names like Scullery or Salon.
    No, unfortunately Amazon does not publish the contents of the pre-defined types. But hey, experiment! Rename one player in iPeng and re-discover. Rinse and repeat.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by philchillbill View Post
    No, unfortunately Amazon does not publish the contents of the pre-defined types. But hey, experiment! Rename one player in iPeng and re-discover. Rinse and repeat.
    Well I have renamed the standalone players with their location, I am just wondering what to do with group players.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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