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  1. #1

    Master/high resolution Tidal streaming etc. with remote/integrated control

    Hi,

    I am, like many others on the web and this forum, looking for ways to, as convenient as possible, stream Tidal Master/Hi-res 24/96 and higher audio to my Squeezebox Touch(I believe the Touch outputs 24/96 max) or any other capable Squeezebox player(like Raspberry Pi), much the same way we today can play local Flac files of 24/192kHz and higher, or stream through the native Tidal app, which is sadly limited to 16/44,1.


    I aim in this thread to explore and collect different ways of achieving this, and it doesn't have to be limited only to Tidal, as long as the various methods/apps/plugins/tweaks/links/instructions/tips/ideas also work for Tidal. I hope this thread won't mainly be about MQA, as this is covered in many other threads. I would settle happily for getting only the first MQA unfold of 24/88,2-96 audio, for instance from the Tidal Desktop app, to my players, but if a solution also covers further unfolding steps, higher resolutions and/or MQA passthrough, i would be happy to hear about that here as well!

    As my initial attemps and findings were fragmented around in different threads and misplaced under the subject "mysqueezebox.com", and the search for better solutions is still ongoing, I have decided to create its own dedicated thread here, and collect my findings so far.


    Having crawled both this forum and the internet extensively, I've so far found 3 potential, but still unsuccessful ways to achieve this:

    1. Develop the native MSB Tidal app or a local LMS plugin like Spotty to support streaming Tidal 24/96 with 1st unfold of MQA or full decoding and passthrough to external renderers of higher quality MQA directly (mherger?)
    2. Using the Tidal Windows application with its built in 1st unfold of MQA to 24/88,2-96 on a server and stream via "Stereo mix"/a virtual audio cable and the Waveinput plugin, remote controlled from the phone by Unified Remote, or similar
    3. Some setup involving OpenHome, BubbleUPnP etc.
    4. Other solutions


    1. Would be the best solution, but I'm uncertain how to proceed or if thereĺs any hope holding one's breath until this happens? (mherger etc.?)
    2. Found a working 24/96 solution, below, for the streaming and remote control in the 2nd point above, with great help from @bpa. Not perfect and very streamlined, though, and still looking for other ways or better remote control than the Unified remote I've found or remote desktop to the server PC.
    3. I haven't tried yet, but found some promising posts on the web without complete instructions. I'm also a bit sceptical about installing too much extra on my server outside the Squeezebox ecosystem.
    4. I would be very happy to hear tips/ideas!


    As the common and thread goal is to get Tidal's(or other streaming services') Hi-Res/Master stream to play with the highest resolution possible on our players, and with the least amount of work/resistance, and the highest ease of use possible, and inside the Squeezebox ecosystem, I'm hoping people could share their thoughts and tips in this thread, by:
    I. Posting complete and detailed instructions for any of the above 3 suggested Methods
    II. Post maybe existing alternative methods with complete and detailed instructions
    III. Upvote or in other ways inspire/motivate/continue the work of the in-house gurus on method no. 1 - The official Tidal plugin, or something similar.


    I hope for a populated, alive and motivated forum thread with many good ideas, keeping to the subject and ultimately one or more good solutions to get Hi-Res/Master sound from our Tidal streaming services and easily out of our different Squeezebox players!

    Alea iacta est and any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Br,
    Vegard
    Last edited by Vegz78; 2019-09-12 at 09:25.

  2. #2

    Working solution for 24/96 Hi-Res audio from Tidal or other sources w/WaveInput...

    ...plugin, testet with success on LMS server 7.9.+ on Windows 10.

    Thanks to @pbjbryan and @bpa for the WaveInput pluging, which is still working for ever new applications, and for support!
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/WaveInput_plugin


    The problem was that the default wavin2cmd.exe transcoder bundled with WaveInput plugin didn't work with 24bit files without producing white noise and stuttering. The solution was to use the sox.exe transcoder instead, which also comes with the LMS server for Windows.

    Here's a short write up on how to get it to work, based on the last couple of days with great support from @bpa:

    1. Install, set up and start a virtual audio cable(VB, VAC etc.) with 24/96 between the provided virtual playback and recording devices, or set up "stereo mix" in a similar way if your soundcard comes and works with this.
    2. Make sure that the virtual playback and recording devices are both set up with the same 24/96 under "Advanced" in their properties pages from the old Windows control panel, and that all check boxes for exclusive modes are empty.
    3. Edit and save the C:\ProgramData\Squeezebox\Cache\InstalledPlugins\P lugins\WaveInput\custom-convert.conf to the following, where the changed line is highlighted in blue and red:
    Code:
    wavin pcm * *
    	# R
    	[wavin2cmd] -o $FILE$ 
    
    wavin flc * *
    	# R
    	[sox] -q -r 96000 -b 24 -t waveaudio 2 -t flac -  
    
    wavin mp3 * *
    	# RB:{BITRATE=-B %B}D:{RESAMPLE=--resample %D}
    	[wavin2cmd] -o $FILE$ | [lame] -r -s 44.1  --silent -q $QUALITY$ -v $BITRATE$ - -
    Remember that the device number in red is the same as the output of the C:\ProgramData\Squeezebox\Cache\InstalledPlugins\P lugins\WaveInput\wavein2cmd.exe -l subtracted by one, where my virtual recording device is 3 -1 = 2. You may have a different number for the correct device.
    4. Restart the LMS server
    5. Make a favorite entry with the text "wavin:2", where 2 is an arbitrary number, as the correct recording device now is hardcoded into custom-convert.conf.
    6. Start Tidal or any other audio application or source on the chosen recording device. Make sure to select MQA/Master/Hi-Res mode and the virtual playback devices as the output device in the audio application.
    7. Start playback of the new favorite entry on your Squeezebox player.

    For Tidal the "Master" icon should light up in the application on supported audiotracks, and the 96kHz diodes should light up on your supported DACs/Amplifiers. For Tidal the audio path should now (theoretically)be 24bit/96 all the way and feed the extra quality/information uninterrupted to your speakers, lik this:
    Tidal Master unfolding(or any other audio source) to 24/96 -> VAC playback device 24/96 -> VAC recording device 24/96 -> Waveinput/sox 24/96 -> Squeezebox Touch 24/96 -> DAC/Amp 24/96(or analog)

    UPDATE 2019.09.11: No need to set up any higher bitrate chain than 24/96 for Tidal, as I've come to learn that the Tidal PC app currently only provides MQA 1st unfold at 24/88,2-96 bitrates:
    https://www.mqa.co.uk/how-it-works
    It should work in the same way, though, with higher bitrate audio chains for other and higher bitrate inputs than Tidal specifically.

    Note that:
    1. The bit streams over the networks starts get big on higher bit rates and depths(3-4Mpbs for 24/96) and might be a challange for wireless or older network equipment
    2. There are a couple of seconds delay from song start or skip in the Tidal app until sound plays from your speakers
    3. The Tidal app on the Windows server PC cannot yet, to my knowledge, be easily remote controllet from the phone/LMS-server etc. like Spotify connetct etc.


    Enjoy Tidal(or other) hi-res audio on your supported Squeezebox players and please contribute with better and more convenient ways to achieve playback and/or remote control of Tidal(or other) hi-res services on this thread, if you have any good and working solutions!


    Br,
    Vegard
    Last edited by Vegz78; 2019-09-12 at 07:53.

  3. #3

    Remote control solution for Tidal PC app streaming through WaveInput?

    Hi,

    I managed to remote control from my iPhone the Tidal PC app running on the LMS server machine and streaming 24/192 through WaveInput/sox with the help of Unified Remote and ronCYA's nice unified remote plugin with just editing of the Tidal executable path in the remote.lua script.
    https://github.com/ronCYA/UR-Tidal

    But, unfortunately it doesn't allow for remote control of the Tidal PC app in "headless" mode, with advanced search functionality and playlist selections on the phone, only basic play, skip, stop, volume, shuffle etc.


    Does anyone have any nice tips for real interactive remote controlling the official Tidal PC player application from an iPhone/iPad?


    Br,
    Vegard
    Last edited by Vegz78; 2019-09-12 at 08:25.

  4. #4
    Senior Member left channel's Avatar
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    I have one further suggestion in addition to those in my previous replies across the other threads.

    I use a fanless PC as a source for my best audio system. I primarily run Squeezelite-X, but also have the official Tidal and Qobuz apps for Windows installed there. Video from the PC is connected separately from the audio, via HDMI through my preamp to a TV, while the audio is connected via an unprocessed analog path only.

    Although I can control Squeezlite-X via iOS, Android, or a laptop without the TV, for the official Tidal and Qobuz I use a wireless Logitech K400 keyboard while looking at the TV. This is the only way I can get MQA from Tidal or all the written content on Qobuz in addition to their lovely Hi-Res music.
    LMS: SGC microJukebox running Sonicorbiter OS
    Control apps: Squeezelite-X on Win 10; Squeezer or Material web app on Android
    Players: Duet, Touch (two), Mac SqueezePlay, Win Squeezelite-X on laptop and HTPC

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    I have one other suggestion, not exactly what you want, but it works for me.
    Great! I want any suggestions in this thread on how to comfortably get Tidal hifi sound to a DAC/amp and preferably through LMS/Squeezebox players!

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    I use a fanless PC as a source for my best audio system. I primarily run Squeezelite-X, but also have the official Tidal and Qobuz apps for Windows installed there. Video from the PC is connected separately from the audio, via HDMI through my preamp to a TV, while the audio is connected via an unprocessed analog path only.

    Although I can control Squeezlite-X via iOS, Android, or a laptop without the TV, for the official Tidal and Qobuz I use a wireless Logitech K400 keyboard while looking at the TV. This is the only way I can get MQA from Tidal or all the written content on Qobuz in addition to their lovely Hi-Res music.
    Thanks for your input, left channel!

    Personally, I prefer high WAF with only my SBT visible and gruvi'n family pictures to compensate for my oversized speakers in the living room, and controll everything from a phone and not needing to crank up a PC or TV just to play (hi-res)music... But this could indeed be a great suggestion for others or in the future, thanks!


    If understand you correctly here and from other posts, Squeezelite-X(great app just installed on my laptop and Win server, by the way!) here can give you headless operation with hi-res, and even MQA, playback from local files and Qobuz, but you have to use the TV and the Tidal offical desktop application to achieve this from Tidal streams?


    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    ...in addition to those in my previous replies across the other threads.
    Please also include here your suggestions in your previous replies across the other threads, as long as they are relevant to the thread subject/goal!

    I'm hoping the thread will become a nice collection for various solutions, ideas and maybe an inspiration for developing new solutions!

    Br,

    Vegard

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    I didn't look in great detail but anything other than 1 seems very complicated.

    If HiRes MQA stream can play on Windows - I would look at network traffic to find ways to do the same on LMS and cut out all the VAC & remote control stuff - my gut feel a quick initial investigation will tell if it is possible and if so then will be less work than remote control. My experience of remote controls via a relay has never been good.
    Nice input, bpa!

    I’m trying to collect all good ideas here for Tidal hi-res on LMS/Squeezeboxes, so we maybe can achieve something good and well thought through together.

    I totally agree that solutions around point 1, would really be the best and easiest for us all to use and maintain, at least. But maybe more complicated to build? And how would one go about to pick apart the official Tidal desktop app like you suggest with network traffic etc.?


    At the moment, though maybe not the best or sexy, I’m exploring ways to get further 2-ways operation of the Tidal desktop app with WaveInput through Unified remote. I’ve found some promising work on wrappers/api for Tidal, where maybe a generic node.js based web app for the phone or iPeng browser to remote control The Tidal PC app could work? It would also have application outside LMS and maybe up for grasp inside my current domain of skills.


    Is this a way forward, in the shorter term for solutions in the spirit of point 2, and maybe of future benefit for solutions ß la point 1?

    Br,
    Vegard
    Last edited by Vegz78; 2019-09-12 at 14:00.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegz78 View Post
    And how would one go about to pick apart the official Tidal desktop app like you suggest with network traffic etc.?
    Wireshark or similar

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    As we are talking Windows have you tried Stream What Your Hear? It will take any audio from your PC and stream it as mp3 or PCM - your choice - and you Tune in URL on LMS.
    No metadata obviously but can run on any Windows PC on the network not necessarily the server.
    As to Remote Control ..... what about FLIRC
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    Wireshark or similar
    Thx, bpa!

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    As we are talking Windows have you tried Stream What Your Hear? It will take any audio from your PC and stream it as mp3 or PCM - your choice - and you Tune in URL on LMS.
    No metadata obviously but can run on any Windows PC on the network not necessarily the server.
    As to Remote Control ..... what about FLIRC
    Hi d6jg,
    Thanks for your contribution!

    As you say, Stream What You Hear would solve another convenience, by not having Tidal on the same machine as the LMS server. But their F.A.Q. section mentions "...MP3 or PCM/L16" and I haven't found anything about support for higher resolution audio streaming, which is the topic in this thread. Do you know if it's possible to convey 24/96kHz and above through SWYH?

    I also checked out Flirc and didn't get how that would allow interactive/2-way remote control of Tidal, with browsing of playlists, searching songs etc. Could you provide a spesific link/use case, please?

    Br,
    Vegard

  10. #10

    Unofficial KODI Tidal add-on as source for local hi-res LMS plugin?

    Hi,

    Does anyone have a clue if this unofficial KODI tidal plugin could be ported/modified to a hi-res local LMS plugin?:


    It states "lossless" capability, but often this means just being able to play lossless 16/44,1...
    https://github.com/arnesongit/plugin.audio.tidal2
    https://github.com/arnesongit/kodi-tidal

    Br,
    Vegard

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