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  1. #11
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgmlaw View Post
    If you are using either as a digital head end, the TP is a bit better in that role than the Touch.
    In what way?

    For instance, a TP on a $250-500 DAC is likely a downgrade. But the TP soars to another level with a $4,000 one.
    In what way would a $4,000 DAC be audibly better than a $250-500 DAC?
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizbin View Post
    The mid range/bass of the Transporter blows away the Touch.



    A TP with a $2000 DAC can be a downgrade as well. The RME ADI-2 PRO, the Benchmark DAC3 pale by comparison.

    I have both a Touch and a TP ( as well as a Squeezebox Classic and Boom ...)

    For many years I used the TP with its own DAC, driving ATC SCM 100 ASL loudspeakers direct. The results were very, very good.

    I recently bought a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC ( approx £2200) having auditioned several other DACs ranging in price from £500 to £3000, none of which sounded any better than the TP's own DAC.

    The combination of the TP and the Schiit DAC is, to my ears, outstanding. I certainly prefer it to the TP's internal DAC. The 'improvement' is subtle but noticeable and I am extremely happy with it.

    The TP was already very good but in my opinion, which of course is subjective, the external DAC has taken the TP to another level.

    Using the digital output from Touch to the same external DAC produces surprisingly good results, especially considering the cost of the Touch.

    However, the TP/External DAC combination delivers a very noticeable improvement compared with Touch/DAC.

    This suggests that the digital output stage of the TP has been better engineered than the Touch, which is hardly a surprise give the price differential!

    I use the BNC output from TP, but both the RCA and AES outputs also sound superior to the RCA output from Touch.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwalker View Post
    This suggests that the digital output stage of the TP has been better engineered than the Touch, which is hardly a surprise give the price differential!

    What actual properties of the digital output of the TP do you think would be better?
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwalker View Post
    I recently bought a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC ( approx £2200) having auditioned several other DACs ranging in price from £500 to £3000, none of which sounded any better than the TP's own DAC.

    The combination of the TP and the Schiit DAC is, to my ears, outstanding. I certainly prefer it to the TP's internal DAC. The 'improvement' is subtle but noticeable and I am extremely happy with it.
    Measurements isn't everything, but here's some independent measurements of the Yggdrasil:

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...asil-dac.2358/

    Best regards,
    Claus

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    What actual properties of the digital output of the TP do you think would be better?
    I have no idea! I expected the Touch and TP to produce identical results when their digital outputs were connected to the same DAC.
    They certainly don't and I can very easily tell the difference.
    Transformer coupled outputs? Lower jitter? I have no idea, but I never use the Touch.
    If they sounded the same I would sell the TP and keep the Touch.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cfuttrup View Post
    Measurements isn't everything, but here's some independent measurements of the Yggdrasil:

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...asil-dac.2358/

    Best regards,
    Claus
    Thanks Claus.
    I have seen that review.
    I have no axe to grind; I am just a very satisfied owner and certainly don't want to get involved in any 'defence' of one product over another.
    I have merely expressed an opinion about what I have found suits me best.

    As you say, measurements aren't everything. I have auditioned some very expensive DACs with supposedly superior measurements and to me, they all sounded inferior to both the TP and the Yggdrasil.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwalker View Post
    I have no idea! I expected the Touch and TP to produce identical results when their digital outputs were connected to the same DAC.
    They certainly don't and I can very easily tell the difference.
    To the same input on the DAC?

    Transformer coupled outputs? Lower jitter? I have no idea, but I never use the Touch.
    The jitter from a Touch is below audible levels.
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  8. #18
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    I used to be a "measurements is everything" kind of person. Then I started listening to some of the best measured DAC's on Audio Science Review and I was surprised to not only hear level matched differences with bass/treble, etc, but also soundstage as well. The RME ADI-2 DAC/PRO for example has a slightly wider soundstage than the Transporter, but it's not natural, IMO, as it can shift the vocals too far out of the center range. I notice it more with digitized vinyl (vinyl typically has a wider soundstage...depending on equipment used) than with CD's. I was really excited when I got the ADI-2 and my bias was with it all the way but it sounded bright and fatiguing. In all fairness, the unit has tons of tweaks but I don't think any of them would improve it a great deal.

    I do not believe that the price of a DAC reflects the sound or quality. A $4000 or even a $40,000 DAC could possibly be the worst sounding DAC out there. I have no doubt in the future that a DAC costing $300 could POSSIBLY sound better than the Transporter, but we're not there yet. (Unless one has slipped past my radar but I doubt it)

    I'll still check Amir's measurements before buying a DAC but lately I find reading comments and reviews (not so much magazine reviews) is more beneficial.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    In what way?



    In what way would a $4,000 DAC be audibly better than a $250-500 DAC?
    I think I gave you a clue why. And I think I also identified specifically where in the TP corners were cut.

    If you connect the dots, the answer should be obvious.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    To the same input on the DAC?

    Yes


    The jitter from a Touch is below audible levels.
    That may be true. I make no claims to the contrary, although some research indicates that very low levels of jitter can affect sound quality; I simply enjoy the combination of TP and external DAC far more than a Touch using the same DAC.

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