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  1. #1
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    Does Duet have stability issues unique to receiver/controller connection/interaction?

    Hi;

    I have alot of user experience with sb devices since 2009, but I am not one of the "under the hood" guys that provide great support on this forum. I have used duet, booms, touches, radios, and now use PiCore as servers.

    Anyhow, I have been trying to help a friend get started with SB (after he saw mine) and I gave him a duet to try, and to date we have only had it hooked up on mysb.com. We have had stability lock up issues which I discussed on this thread: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...-address-first

    Unfortunately, he is not very technical, and most of my support has been via email, over the phone. I am only at his place in person after a bit of a drive (and I need to be invited )

    He has allot of network interruptions that may be due to either the ISP or his wifi. Often the duet combo will lock up (Receiver white light, doesn't play, controller can choose player, but can't control it, remote control from mysb.come doesn't work). When this happes we need to do the controller/receiver rest process (press and hold controller until fast red flash, Power and '+' on the controller, go through the setup process).

    I have seen this on my setups, but always through it was because of years back using an old LMS version, wifi issues, etc. I am thinking that I have not seen this with a touch, boom, or radio, but I am not sure.

    My concern/suspicion is that there is a unique relationship between the receiver and controller (or possibly the controller and any other device it's connected to) that might cause a lockup when network exceptions happen, where an integrated UI system (touch, radio, etc) does not. The controller uses wifi to communicate to the receiver, where in integrated units, the UI does not. Maybe the "control link" is susceptible?

    Has anyone seen something like this or have knowledge of it?

    I think my path forward might be to give him a radio to try, then, maybe look for a second hand touch for him. I had thought a duet would be perfect (carry the controller to control outdoor speakers, etc...), but with this, and when I gave him the controller to try, he had to find his reading glasses (oops, hadn't thought of that )...so, maybe it isn't ideal for him.

    I appreciate any thoughts.

    Jim

  2. #2
    Senior Member w3wilkes's Avatar
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    I didn't read your other thread, but what you describe here is classic network trouble. Here's some things that may help at your friends place...

    Use a program like "WiFi Analyzer" on an Android phone and check to see how many networks are active in the location you're testing in the 2.4Ghz band. You should see active networks most likely on channels 1 - 6 - and 11. Set your router to use the one of these 3 with the least amount of SSID's showing in the WiFi Analyzer.

    The controller talks to LMS, LMS actually controls the receiver so the controller really isn't part of the problem. The only time the controller talks directly to the receiver is when you set up the receiver. The way it works is that when you set up the receiver it gets the WiFi network credentials (SSID and security key) from the controller, once the receiver attaches to the WiFi network all control of the receiver actually comes from LMS. When you select music to play from the controller it actually is telling LMS to play music on the receiver.

    If your LMS server has to be on WiFi you will have your best results it your router and LMS server run on the 5Ghz WiFi band so it won't conflict with the band that the player(s) are on. It's best to have the LMS server ethernet cable attached to the router.

    Good luck!
    Main system - Rock Solid with LMS 7.9.2 Official on WHS 2011 - 2 Duets and Squeeseslave
    Cabin system - Rock solid with LMS 7.9.2 Official on Win10 Pro - 1 RPi 3 Model B/Hifiberry DAC+ Pro/PiCorePlayer and Squeezeslave
    Headphones and car - Android phone/Bluetooth w/full library on MicroSD card - PowerAmp music player app (similar to Material Skin)

  3. #3
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    I have regular issues with my receivers going blue light locked up and requiring restart. And I don't have the duet controller powered up anywhere. They just appear to drop connection to their lms instance and stay dead sometimes.

    Doesn't matter too much as I don't use them that often. The one I use the least is the least stable.


    Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk
    --
    Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0
    Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums..

  4. #4
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    Thank you both,

    DRMatt, do I take it from your message that your impression is that the receivers are the least stable? I remember reading in other threads that the wifi antenna is not the best performing of the sb's (perhaps due to form factor). Do you have it hooked up via LAN or wifi?

    w3w,


    Yes, I have wifi analyzer, and yes, he had a conflict on 6. I tried to move him to 11 over the phone, but decided to wait until my next visit. But, both he and I have cabins in the woods in northern new york, so we see maybe one other network tops. BTW, we are both on the same lousy DSL service, but mine runs rock solid. However, my physical connection might be better, who knows with this provider.

    I also looked via the settings in the receiver at the wifi strength it sees and it's about 50%. Not the greatest.

    When you say that the controller speaks to LMS, is this also true for mysb.com I assume? Also, in my other thread I

    My over time progression/plan for getting him setup is 1) player on mysb.com (current status) 2) add LMS, build a picore server for him. So for 1) and 2) it's all wifi with the server 2) being his windows laptop. For 3 the plan is lan into the picore. Right now the location of his router prohibits the receiver from beig hooked to the lan.

    My plan moving forward is to change his channel, look into relocating his router from a back room closer to the living area, and I have a spare sb radio that i'll take down and hook up both, and see if one continues to operate when the other locks up. Maybe install LMS if I have the time.

    Thank again, I was just wondering if there was a "known instability" that is unique to the receiver

    Jim

  5. #5
    Senior Member w3wilkes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
    When you say that the controller speaks to LMS, is this also true for mysb.com I assume?
    Hadn't really thought about that circumstance, but I believe when you switch to mysb.com it becomes the control point since your mysb.com info is stored in the controller during setup.

    And I forgot to mention the "Bridged mode". If you have a wired only network the receiver can be configured to be an AP for the controller. In this configuration the receiver acts as a WiFi access point, but still this just uses the receiver to get controller commands to LMS and then LMS still is the thing commanding the receiver.
    Main system - Rock Solid with LMS 7.9.2 Official on WHS 2011 - 2 Duets and Squeeseslave
    Cabin system - Rock solid with LMS 7.9.2 Official on Win10 Pro - 1 RPi 3 Model B/Hifiberry DAC+ Pro/PiCorePlayer and Squeezeslave
    Headphones and car - Android phone/Bluetooth w/full library on MicroSD card - PowerAmp music player app (similar to Material Skin)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmatt View Post
    I have regular issues with my receivers going blue light locked up and requiring restart. And I don't have the duet controller powered up anywhere. They just appear to drop connection to their lms instance and stay dead sometimes.

    Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk
    Just thought I would bump this thread with an update. I took a radio to my friends and when I left both the duet and radio were operating (I ran headphone out to his receiver, so he only had to switch sources). After a few days, he reported that the receiver/controller were not working (blue light on receiver this time) but the radio was working fine. The radio continues to work. I guess the receiver is not a good fit for him until we can address some of his network instability.

    Since the headphone out of the radio to the receiver don't seem to be equivalent sound quality to line outs (to me at least), I think I'll look for a touch for him, or maybe I can build him a picore with display.

    Jim

  7. #7
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    One issue with a receiver is that users have tended to hide it away or right up beside other kit - unlike radio and touch which are on full display.

    Signal is never great if a receiver is placed behind an amp or at back of a shelf.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    One issue with a receiver is that users have tended to hide it away or right up beside other kit - unlike radio and touch which are on full display.

    Signal is never great if a receiver is placed behind an amp or at back of a shelf.
    agree, but in this test, they were both on the same shelf, next to each other, next to the receiver, but a couple feet away. Not to say that made the WIFI reception equal, as the internal antenna design and configuration/orientation differ. I did check the wireless signal strength of the receiver in settings, advanced, and it was about 50%, but who knows where "acceptable" is.

    I have 3 receivers running at my house, all via wifi, in occasional use locations (outdoor speakers, etc), and it seems like after a period of non use, they get lost (don't appear on the list of players) and have to be reset. I don't know why, I don't seem to have to have this problem with touch/booms/radios.

    The thing that is difficult with friend is he is not technically inclined, and my visits are not that frequent and on the short side. I really don't want him to sour on the SB experience, so I need to get him stable the best way I can.

    Thanks for your thoughts, Jim

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
    I have 3 receivers running at my house, all via wifi, in occasional use locations (outdoor speakers, etc), and it seems like after a period of non use, they get lost (don't appear on the list of players) and have to be reset. I don't know why, I don't seem to have to have this problem with touch/booms/radios.
    I have a receiver which is wired and every so often it drops off - LMS can't see it and vice versa. My issue is due to DHCP because when I use Net::UDAP configuration to tool to look at its internals (receiver is still on net just not talking to LMS) - the relevant IP addresses are not updated.

    edit:
    If technically minded - you could try using net::UDAP and check a "fallen" receiver if it is still on net and check the settings are OK to talk to your LMS.
    https://github.com/robinbowes/net-udap
    Last edited by bpa; 2019-08-23 at 05:10.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Apesbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
    ...or maybe I can build him a picore with display.
    If your friend has a tablet or cell phone, you don't need a display and the experience is about as convenient as Squeezebox gets:
    https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...ard&highlight=

    RPi, DAC board, power supply, and case will run you about $100 on Amazon or you can buy one pre-built on allo.com. If it ever stops responding, just unplug power and plug back in. Mobile control app is free or a few bucks.

    P. S. The Radio via headphone out is not that bad. Add a mobile controller and it's pretty much the full experience.

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