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Thread: uPnp vs piCore

  1. #1
    Senior Member DomieMic65's Avatar
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    uPnp vs piCore

    I admit I didnít know about piCore/LMS until last few weeks.

    Since then I was using Volumio, MoOde and mainly Archphile as music playing OSs on my rpis as complete systems or as renderers for server running on my NAS.
    Long story short I wanted an even lighter client for for my rpis because I thought that there is no need to have all the library management and GUI of the above OSs because I was using the rpi only for playing.
    So I found LMS/piCore. I set up two systems in two houses science then and I am trying to read and learn as much I can.

    I also read searching around in the net that upnp is a very weak protocol.
    Why is this? I see that it used from very respected manufacturers as Melco to name one on their machines.

    What is the advantage of the piCore/LMS system vs a server (minim maybe?)/upnp system?

    Thanks in advance and sorry if I donít express some things in the right technical way but I think you get my point!

    Michael
    Main system: Synology DS115j/RPi3b(LMS)/RPi3B+[LnrPS](piCore)/M2Tech EvoDAC Two+[LnrPS]/Densen DM20&30/Spendor SP2/3E
    Head-Fi: Schiit Vali2/Sennheiser HD600 & HD25Alum/Audeze Sine.
    Aditional HW: Allo DigiOne, iFi iDefender, iPurifier, iPower

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomieMic65 View Post
    I admit I didn’t know about piCore/LMS until last few weeks.

    Since then I was using Volumio, MoOde and mainly Archphile as music playing OSs on my rpis as complete systems or as renderers for server running on my NAS.
    Long story short I wanted an even lighter client for for my rpis because I thought that there is no need to have all the library management and GUI of the above OSs because I was using the rpi only for playing.
    So I found LMS/piCore. I set up two systems in two houses science then and I am trying to read and learn as much I can.

    I also read searching around in the net that upnp is a very weak protocol.
    Why is this? I see that it used from very respected manufacturers as Melco to name one on their machines.

    What is the advantage of the piCore/LMS system vs a server (minim maybe?)/upnp system?

    Thanks in advance and sorry if I don’t express some things in the right technical way but I think you get my point!

    Michael

    One advantage is that SB players - including pCP - work to a standard. uPnP/DLNA is a very loose standard where one device might work but otherrs don't.
    However the biggest benefit is with playlist management you simply can't do what LMS can with any uPnP server I have ever come across.

    Have you tried the following LMS plugin's yet ? These are also things you don't get in uPnP.

    Material - html5 skin
    Music & Artist Information - often refereed to as MAI. Adds bio, album review, lyrics etc and works very well with Material
    Radio Paradise - esoteric Rock station that broadcasts in FLAC.
    BBC iPlayer - BBC Radio
    Spotty - adds Spotify if you have a Premium Account

    Edit
    LastMix - works in conjunction with Don't Stop The Music to auto add to the playlist but cleverly based on what you have been playing.
    Last edited by d6jg; 2019-08-05 at 03:10.
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  3. #3
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    uPNP is much more than an audio standard, it was intended to make discovery and configuration of printers, routers, wifi, audio etc easier when Windows was effectively the only OS but it fails on many levels - compatibility, functionality & security. uPNP can be considered a marketing exercise between Intel, Microsoft and a few others to create a standard in competition to Apple which just results in a lowest common denominator in terms of functionality. Which means for specific areas it'll provide a basic service will never be as good as a proprietary standard. It also lack proper compatibility testing as can be seen from Philippe upnp bridge there are lots of options to handle different upnp implementations just in the audio area.

    One interesting example to make configuring a router "Plug'n'Play" easier - a PC can open external ports, change settings etc on a uPNP enabled router - this is now a security risk if there is malware on a PC.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bernt's Avatar
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    I could be wrong but I don't think Replay Gain and gapless playback works wih upnp.
    SB Touch optical to Hegel H90, Speakers Larsen 4.2
    Spare SB3
    AirPlay Bridge to Audio Pro A10
    Squeezelite-x connected to home LMS with Neorouter.
    SB Radio
    ReadyNAS 202
    iPeng

  5. #5
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    Although UPnP-AV defines how to achieve synchronisation between players ... I have not come across one that claims to support it.
    Sync works well with LMS and Squeeze players - as found in pCP.
    Paul Webster
    http://dabdig.blogspot.com
    Author Radio France (FIP etc) plugin

  6. #6
    Senior Member DomieMic65's Avatar
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    @d6jg and all thank you very much for replying.. I am starting to get an idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    One advantage is that SB players - including pCP - work to a standard. uPnP/DLNA is a very loose standard where one device might work but otherrs don't.
    However the biggest benefit is with playlist management you simply can't do what LMS can with any uPnP server I have ever come across.

    Have you tried the following LMS plugin's yet ? These are also things you don't get in uPnP.

    Material - html5 skin
    Music & Artist Information - often refereed to as MAI. Adds bio, album review, lyrics etc and works very well with Material
    Radio Paradise - esoteric Rock station that broadcasts in FLAC.
    BBC iPlayer - BBC Radio
    Spotty - adds Spotify if you have a Premium Account

    Edit
    LastMix - works in conjunction with Don't Stop The Music to auto add to the playlist but cleverly based on what you have been playing.
    From the plugins you mention I use Spotty and I absolutely love it. This integration of the local library with the streaming service is great.

    I should try the others too. MAI sounds great too and all the others of course!!

    Up 'til now I was trying to configure DSD playback and finally I think I did it ok.
    384khz can't play but no problem.. I have just an album and some test tracks.

    I use iPeng on my iPad as remote.

    For questions I will post to the threat I opened in the "Beginners" category!

    Thank you all again!
    Main system: Synology DS115j/RPi3b(LMS)/RPi3B+[LnrPS](piCore)/M2Tech EvoDAC Two+[LnrPS]/Densen DM20&30/Spendor SP2/3E
    Head-Fi: Schiit Vali2/Sennheiser HD600 & HD25Alum/Audeze Sine.
    Aditional HW: Allo DigiOne, iFi iDefender, iPurifier, iPower

  7. #7
    Senior Member DomieMic65's Avatar
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    Well I am amazed... those plugins are just great!!!
    Main system: Synology DS115j/RPi3b(LMS)/RPi3B+[LnrPS](piCore)/M2Tech EvoDAC Two+[LnrPS]/Densen DM20&30/Spendor SP2/3E
    Head-Fi: Schiit Vali2/Sennheiser HD600 & HD25Alum/Audeze Sine.
    Aditional HW: Allo DigiOne, iFi iDefender, iPurifier, iPower

  8. #8
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    You donít get that with upnp!
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  9. #9
    Senior Member DomieMic65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    You donít get that with upnp!
    Heh.. I guess you do not!!!

    Thank you for the advice!
    Main system: Synology DS115j/RPi3b(LMS)/RPi3B+[LnrPS](piCore)/M2Tech EvoDAC Two+[LnrPS]/Densen DM20&30/Spendor SP2/3E
    Head-Fi: Schiit Vali2/Sennheiser HD600 & HD25Alum/Audeze Sine.
    Aditional HW: Allo DigiOne, iFi iDefender, iPurifier, iPower

  10. #10
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    Plus ... there are plugins for LMS to allow it to interoperate with UPnP-AV devices
    Paul Webster
    http://dabdig.blogspot.com
    Author Radio France (FIP etc) plugin

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