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  1. #1
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    Tagging songs that are part of multiple-volume-collections

    Lots of key words in my title of this post for search engines.

    I'm trying to group albums together that have multiple volumes that have an AlbumArtist of "Various Artists", however I'd like to be able to see all of those albums in one view as a collection of multiple volumes.

    For example, there are many volumes to "Billboard Top Hits", "Now That's What I Call Music", "Your Hit Parade", "Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites", etc.

    I'd like to be able to view all of the albums that are part of that "Volume Collection" together. What's the best way to tag songs to be part of a "larger" collection?

    Would it be best to tag AlbumArtist for multiple volume collections like the following?

    "Various Artists;Billboard Top Hits"
    "Various Artists;Now That's What I Call Music"
    "Various Artists;Your Hit Parade"
    "Various Artists;Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites"

    ...etc, etc, etc?

    What is your best way to group muliple-volume-collections?
    Last edited by retro80s; 2019-07-27 at 08:47.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro80s View Post
    Lots of key words in my title of this post for search engines.

    I'm trying to group albums together that have multiple volumes that have an AlbumArtist of "Various Artists", however I'd like to be able to see all of those albums in one view as a collection of multiple volumes.

    For example, there are many volumes to "Billboard Top Hits", "Now That's What I Call Music", "Your Hit Parade", "Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites", etc.

    I'd like to be able to view all of the albums that are part of that "Volume Collection" together. What's the best way to tag songs to be part of a "larger" collection?

    Would it be best to tag AlbumArtist for multiple volume collections like the following?

    "Various Artists;Billboard Top Hits"
    "Various Artists;Now That's What I Call Music"
    "Various Artists;Your Hit Parade"
    "Various Artists;Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites"

    ...etc, etc, etc?

    What is your best way to group muliple-volume-collections?
    Generally speaking it is best to leave AlbumArtist blank when tagging compilations. LMS is designed to note that there are multiple different track artists and will treat it as a compilation which will appear under whatever you told it to under Settings / My Music e.g. Various Artists and also under "Compilations"

    There is a "Compilation" tag which LMS will read during scan but again general advice is not to use it.

    If you actually tag AlbumArtist as Various Artists it will list under "Various Artists" but not under Compilations.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro80s View Post
    I'm trying to group albums together that have multiple volumes that have an AlbumArtist of "Various Artists", however I'd like to be able to see all of those albums in one view as a collection of multiple volumes.

    For example, there are many volumes to "Billboard Top Hits", "Now That's What I Call Music", "Your Hit Parade", "Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites", etc.

    I'd like to be able to view all of the albums that are part of that "Volume Collection" together. What's the best way to tag songs to be part of a "larger" collection?

    Would it be best to tag AlbumArtist for multiple volume collections like the following?

    "Various Artists;Billboard Top Hits"
    "Various Artists;Now That's What I Call Music"
    "Various Artists;Your Hit Parade"
    "Various Artists;Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites"

    ...etc, etc, etc?

    What is your best way to group muliple-volume-collections?
    you can use the albumartist tag for that, i see np doing so. i use the AA tag as my default sort tag. most times the AA tag equals the artist tag, (not for guest artists obviously), but otherwise its just a way to group tracks together and sort a disc into an albumartist list.

    i use "Various Artists" but i also use "Soundtrack (TV)" and "Soundtrack (Film)" or Film Score, or "Comedy" or whatever suits my purposes to get the disc to sort where i want it to. my albumartist list is basically A to Z by band or artist name, but otherwise the comp terms i use i think of as kind of similar to the categories you might find in a sam goody or tower records... again, i just use the term that will place the material where i would expect to find it in the big A to Z list.

    (i don't use dedicated sort tags b/c they aren't well supported by other apps and devices)

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    Generally speaking it is best to leave AlbumArtist blank when tagging compilations.
    totally disagree. i find LMS and all other software works best if you have an AA tag on everything.

    then, if you want LMS to know such and such is a comp, simply add an explicit comp=1 tag.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    LMS is designed to note that there are multiple different track artists and will treat it as a compilation which will appear under whatever you told it to under Settings / My Music e.g. Various Artists and also under "Compilations"
    yes, LMS will classify any artist mismatch that lacks an AA tag as a comp, that is true. its also completely arbitrary and inaccurate. not every artist mismatch lacking an AA tag is indeed a comp in reality.

    it also means the OP will have all their examples under one AA heading, which doesn't sound to me like what he wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    There is a "Compilation" tag which LMS will read during scan but again general advice is not to use it.
    what? thats the first i ever heard that. what is wrong with an explicit comp=1 tag IF you want to ID something as a comp?

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    If you actually tag AlbumArtist as Various Artists it will list under "Various Artists" but not under Compilations.
    nasty bugs with LMS, including ole 9523. but you can avoid all that nastiness and string conflict by assigning everything an AA tag, using a comp=1 tag where you want, and changing the (stupid) default setting in LMS to use a string term that isn't in your files tags, (meaning, change the LMS term of "Various Artists" for comps to anything else that hopefully isn't anywhere in your tags, like maybe "-Various Artists-"

    see links in my sig below for more info.
    Last edited by BJW; 2019-07-29 at 14:28. Reason: typo
    Using: Win7 64 + LMS 7.9 & Duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph..._Artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJW View Post
    you can use the albumartist tag for that, i see np doing so. i use the AA tag as my default sort tag. most times the AA tag equals the artist tag, (not for guest artists obviously), but otherwise its just a way to group tracks together and sort a disc into an albumartist list.

    i use "Various Artists" but i also use "Soundtrack (TV)" and "Soundtrack (Film)" or Film Score, or "Comedy" or whatever suits my purposes to get the disc to sort where i want it to. my albumartist list is basically A to Z by band or artist name, but otherwise the comp terms i use i think of as kind of similar to the categories you might find in a sam goody or tower records... again, i just use the term that will place the material where i would expect to find it in the big A to Z list.

    (i don't use dedicated sort tags b/c they aren't well supported by other apps and devices)



    totally disagree. i find LMS and all other software works best if you have an AA tag on everything.

    then, if you want LMS to know such and such is a comp, simply add an explicit comp=1 tag.



    yes, LMS will classify any artist mismatch that lacks an AA tag as a comp, that is true. its also completely arbitrary and inaccurate. not every artist mismatch lacking an AA tag is indeed a comp in reality.

    it also means the OP will have all their examples under one AA heading, which doesn't sound to me like what he wants.



    what? thats the first i ever heard that. what is wrong with an explicit comp=1 tag IF you want to ID something as a comp?



    nasty bugs with LMS, including ole 9523. but you can avoid all that nastiness and string conflict by assigning everything an AA tag, using a comp=1 tag where you want, and changing the (stupid) default setting in LMS to use a string term that isn't in your files tags, (meaning, change the LMS term of "Various Artists" for comps to anything else that hopefully isn't anywhere in your tags, like maybe "-Various Artists-"

    see links in my sig below for more info.
    Sorry but I totally disagree with you.
    I don’t have a single compilation tag in my 35,000 track library as it forces “Various Artists” in place of a legitimate AA.
    I use multiple AAs but as far as “Now That’s What I Call Music” type compilations go I totally stand by the leave AA blank comment. LMS correctly recognises the album as a compilation and puts it in the right place.

    I acknowledge that the OP may be looking for a different grouping strategy and I don’t have an answer for that specifically except that using my tagging strategy all Now Series albums would appear together by virtue of alphabetical sorting in both Compilations and in the default VA.

    What is a compilation album anyway? I’d suggest that there are two definitions both of which are in general use at the same time.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    Sorry but I totally disagree with you.
    you can disagree all u want, but facts are facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I don’t have a single compilation tag in my 35,000 track library as it forces “Various Artists” in place of a legitimate AA.
    explain what you mean by this?

    in my usage, LMS will always use the AA tag, and will ID something as a comp if a comp tag is present.

    what exactly are you seeing, and where do you see the undesired behavior?

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I use multiple AAs but as far as “Now That’s What I Call Music” type compilations go I totally stand by the leave AA blank comment. LMS correctly recognises the album as a compilation and puts it in the right place.
    so you do use AA tags? so you understand then that LMS will incorrectly identify SOME albums as comps that in reality aren't comps, if you don't use them, in those cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I acknowledge that the OP may be looking for a different grouping strategy and I don’t have an answer for that specifically except that using my tagging strategy all Now Series albums would appear together by virtue of alphabetical sorting in both Compilations and in the default VA.
    in a running big list, that might be true, but not necessarily always true, and it only applies in a big list, not a specific results set.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    What is a compilation album anyway? I’d suggest that there are two definitions both of which are in general use at the same time.
    now you're speaking my language. LMS, itunes, and others have always been ridiculous in this regard. while it is possible to rule out many things as being a comp, ultimately there is no automatic method i have seen that is reliable for determining what is a comp in reality. yes, LMS uses predictable rules, but so what? those rules are often wrong in the result they generate.

    what i outlined above is by far the best method, and it works not only on LMS, but pretty much all other software and devices i am aware of:

    1. use AA tags on everything. (a rule that works for basically all software and devices) AA tags work as a sort method when browsing by AA tags.
    2. use an explicit comp tag on anything you want to be identified as a comp. (a rule that works for LMS, apple, and many other software/devices that recognize comp tags)
    3. change the LMS default in settings that denotes comps from "Various Artists" to something not in your tags. (a LMS specific rule to overcome the string conflict bug 9523 in LMS)

    you do those 3 things above, and you will have perfect sorting, perfect compilation detection/identification, and nothing missing from your AA list (or other lists) due to the string conflict bug.
    Using: Win7 64 + LMS 7.9 & Duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph..._Artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

  6. #6
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    Lets define a compilation.

    Definition 1 - an album that has tracks which were previously released on another album or as singles etc but are all by the same artist. This album might for example be a “best of”

    Definition 2 - an album containing multiple tracks by multiple different artists. A “Now” album for example

    Both definitions are correct and both are in general use.

    However my definition when used in conjunction with LMS is a VA album ie definition 2.

    I want my definition 1 compilation albums to appear under the single artist. Best of Cream should appear under Cream.

    My tagging strategy ensures this is the case.

    When I say I have no albums that contain a compilation tag I mean just that. None. None with compilation=0 and none with compilation=1.

    (I have had situations where some ripping software has initially stuck a compilation=1 into my album and the result is that when looked at via New Music the album appears as by VA. Removing the tag will correctly list it under the AA.)

    When I say I use multiple AAs I also mean just that. My favourite example is B.B. King & Eric Clapton, Riding With The King.
    It is tagged in mp3tag as follows:
    AA - “B.B. King & Eric Clapton; B.B. King; Eric Clapton”
    Track Artist - “B.B. King & Eric Clapton”
    The result is that LMS reads that as 3 separate tags and it therefore appears in my library under all 3 AAs which is what I want.

    (In the default GUI when you look at the album it’s a bit messy but Material - by accident of design - only displays the first AA which is perfect.)

    I do not have and will never have anything where the AA is tagged as “VA” as LMS can deal with a definition 2 compilation quite happily if there is no AA tag in place but the album has multiple track artists. You mention that there are inconsistencies if this is the case. I have not experienced any and my library is quite extensive.

    I do not use any other music playback software so I do not care whether Apple Music etc baulks at the lack of any AA.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    Lets define a compilation.

    Definition 1 - an album that has tracks which were previously released on another album or as singles etc but are all by the same artist. This album might for example be a “best of”

    Definition 2 - an album containing multiple tracks by multiple different artists. A “Now” album for example

    Both definitions are correct and both are in general use.

    However my definition when used in conjunction with LMS is a VA album ie definition 2.
    so this is the first mistake... what is or isn't a compilation is ultimately a subjective judgment. it doesn't matter how you or I define a comp, or if we agree or not, or everyone else for that matter. there are also other valid/reasonable cases not covered by your two examples above; and regardless, the point to takeaway is that if you simply let LMS scan music that lacks BOTH AA tags and / or comp tags, the built in "logic" or rules for detecting a comp will be woefully inaccurate. that is why you DO use AA tags on some of your files, b/c you have to, to fix or correct what LMS did inaccurately.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I want my definition 1 compilation albums to appear under the single artist. Best of Cream should appear under Cream.

    My tagging strategy ensures this is the case.
    as would mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    When I say I have no albums that contain a compilation tag I mean just that. None. None with compilation=0 and none with compilation=1.
    ok, great. its not like there's a prize for that. personally, in my 'strategy' i see adding comp=1 tags as optional. (i never use comp=0) i didn't used to use comp=1 tags but i started for the benefit of other people and other software / devices, not just LMS. LMS is a dead ecosystem afterall. adding a comp=1 tag is just a bonus so those things are identified to LMS, apple, etc, but strictly speaking, not necessary for proper browsing under my system.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    (I have had situations where some ripping software has initially stuck a compilation=1 into my album and the result is that when looked at via New Music the album appears as by VA. Removing the tag will correctly list it under the AA.)
    perhaps this is where our disconnect is. the only way i find logical to browse is home > albums, and for me it works as AA > year > albumart. browsing via this method i would see my items under both the AA tag and in the comp category specified in the options; so, meaning in both places.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    When I say I use multiple AAs I also mean just that. My favourite example is B.B. King & Eric Clapton, Riding With The King.
    It is tagged in mp3tag as follows:
    AA - “B.B. King & Eric Clapton; B.B. King; Eric Clapton”
    Track Artist - “B.B. King & Eric Clapton”
    The result is that LMS reads that as 3 separate tags and it therefore appears in my library under all 3 AAs which is what I want.

    (In the default GUI when you look at the album it’s a bit messy but Material - by accident of design - only displays the first AA which is perfect.)
    thats np, i don't begrudge you that. i'm for any system that works for you. my replies here though were meant to respond to what the OP was asking for. i don't believe your system speaks to the gathering and sorting he desires. mine does.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I do not have and will never have anything where the AA is tagged as “VA” as LMS can deal with a definition 2 compilation quite happily if there is no AA tag in place but the album has multiple track artists. You mention that there are inconsistencies if this is the case. I have not experienced any and my library is quite extensive.
    the inconsistencies i mention, are when you don't use comp tags OR AA tags. nice sleight of hand there. you are resolving some of the inconsistencies by using AA tags only where you have to b/c otherwise LMS gets it wrong.

    as to the bug, lets say you rip a CD and all the TRACK artists are listed in the tags as "Various Artists" ...in that case you would ALSO succumb to the same bug 9523 i mentioned. its a string conflict, and not just a problem with AA tags, that's just where it happens to occur the most.

    ***Various Artists is the default value of the LMS setting, but if the user changes that to say: COMPS ...and they have COMPS in their AA or A tags as well, the conflict would now exhibit there. what makes the bug so insidious, is that a lot of rippers put Various Artists in the AA or A tags by default, so the conflict happens out of the box when LMS scans the files, and worse yet, its not an immediately obvious problem to spot, esp if you have a large collection, and even if you spot it, there is nothing to suggest what is causing it or how to fix it. why M.Herger doesn't spend some time on resolving it, i have no idea, i wish he would.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I do not use any other music playback software so I do not care whether Apple Music etc baulks at the lack of any AA.
    surely you realize LMS is a dead man walking? the OP might care, as might others. my system is basically universal.

    anyway...

    as i said to start, i use AA tags to group tracks together and to sort my list. most of the time, my AA tags are the same as my artist tags. if they aren't, it is merely to group and sort the CD where i want it in the list. yes, i have some AA tags that = Various Artists but i also have a lot of other sorting placeholders, like Soundtrack (Film), Soundtrack (Stage), Comedy, or whatever suits my grouping and sorting purposes. the comp tag is basically optional but i use it bc it adds to the experience and universality without taking anything anyway.
    Last edited by BJW; 2019-07-31 at 12:20.
    Using: Win7 64 + LMS 7.9 & Duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph..._Artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJW View Post
    so this is the first mistake... what is or isn't a compilation is ultimately a subjective judgment. it doesn't matter how you or I define a comp, or if we agree or not, or everyone else for that matter. there are also other valid/reasonable cases not covered by your two examples above; and regardless, the point to takeaway is that if you simply let LMS scan music that lacks BOTH AA tags and / or comp tags, the built in "logic" or rules for detecting a comp will be woefully inaccurate. that is why you DO use AA tags on some of your files, b/c you have to, to fix or correct what LMS did inaccurately.



    as would mine.



    ok, great. its not like there's a prize for that. personally, in my 'strategy' i see adding comp=1 tags as optional. (i never use comp=0) i didn't used to use comp=1 tags but i started for the benefit of other people and other software / devices, not just LMS. LMS is a dead ecosystem afterall. adding a comp=1 tag is just a bonus so those things are identified to LMS, apple, etc, but strictly speaking, not necessary for proper browsing under my system.



    perhaps this is where our disconnect is. the only way i find logical to browse is home > albums, and for me it works as AA > year > albumart. browsing via this method i would see my items under both the AA tag and in the comp category specified in the options; so, meaning in both places.



    thats np, i don't begrudge you that. i'm for any system that works for you. my replies here though were meant to respond to what the OP was asking for. i don't believe your system speaks to the gathering and sorting he desires. mine does.



    the inconsistencies i mention, are when you don't use comp tags OR AA tags. nice sleight of hand there. you are resolving some of the inconsistencies by using AA tags only where you have to b/c otherwise LMS gets it wrong.

    as to the bug, lets say you rip a CD and all the TRACK artists are listed in the tags as "Various Artists" ...in that case you would ALSO succumb to the same bug 9523 i mentioned. its a string conflict, and not just a problem with AA tags, that's just where it happens to occur the most.

    ***Various Artists is the default value of the LMS setting, but if the user changes that to say: COMPS ...and they have COMPS in their AA or A tags as well, the conflict would now exhibit there. what makes the bug so insidious, is that a lot of rippers put Various Artists in the AA or A tags by default, so the conflict happens out of the box when LMS scans the files, and worse yet, its not an immediately obvious problem to spot, esp if you have a large collection, and even if you spot it, there is nothing to suggest what is causing it or how to fix it. why M.Herger doesn't spend some time on resolving it, i have no idea, i wish he would.



    surely you realize LMS is a dead man walking? the OP might care, as might others. my system is basically universal.

    anyway...

    as i said to start, i use AA tags to group tracks together and to sort my list. most of the time, my AA tags are the same as my artist tags. if they aren't, it is merely to group and sort the CD where i want it in the list. yes, i have some AA tags that = Various Artists but i also have a lot of other sorting placeholders, like Soundtrack (Film), Soundtrack (Stage), Comedy, or whatever suits my grouping and sorting purposes. the comp tag is basically optional but i use it bc it adds to the experience and universality without taking anything anyway.
    I do agree that there is a code issue but I’m not going to say it’s a bug and yes I have long ago found myself scratching my head wondering why something appeared as VA which wasn’t in Compilations.

    My system works for me and yours does for you. Let’s leave it there. I certainly don’t consider LMS as dead in the water. The recent improvements to MAI and the new Material skin are testament to that.

    To the original question. Wouldn’t it be more logical to use the Genre tag for the purpose? The groupings the OP wants aren’t really Artist related but stretching a point the Now series could be considered as a sort of Genre. This is a multi value tag so far as LMS is concerned so would be easy to implement.
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    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I do agree that there is a code issue but I’m not going to say it’s a bug
    so what do u call it when out of the box your music server hides your properly tagged music from you?

    i call it a bug. specifically, bug 9523.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    and yes I have long ago found myself scratching my head wondering why something appeared as VA which wasn’t in Compilations.
    you completely lost me here, although i'm not disputing you... but can u describe what you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    My system works for me and yours does for you. Let’s leave it there.
    thats fine, never said otherwise. again, i was trying to answer the OP's request.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I certainly don’t consider LMS as dead in the water. The recent improvements to MAI and the new Material skin are testament to that.
    where are they making new slim devices? SBs? anything? where is it on a shelf?

    i'm glad m.herger does what he does, thats nice, but this thing is one dead parrot.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    To the original question. Wouldn’t it be more logical to use the Genre tag for the purpose? The groupings the OP wants aren’t really Artist related but stretching a point the Now series could be considered as a sort of Genre. This is a multi value tag so far as LMS is concerned so would be easy to implement.
    to me that would be a complete bastardization of the genre tag that i would not consider. i have a set list of genre labels (about 30 or so) and all the music gets that label on a per track basis. to me using the AA tag is by far the easiest and most sensible way to accomplish what he is looking to do.
    Using: Win7 64 + LMS 7.9 & Duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod
    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph..._Artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

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