Home of the Squeezebox™ & Transporter® network music players.
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 29 of 29
  1. #21
    Senior Member dolodobendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by adamdea View Post
    I would love "work" tag support. I'm not 100% sure I need "recording".
    Any chance @mherger ?
    Yes, you do. That's how you keep your several recordings of Karajan's Beethoven's Fifth apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > I would love "work" tag support. I'm not 100% sure I need "recording".
    > Any chance @mherger ?


    You give a good reason why it's unlikely this is going to happen any
    time soon: too many opinions as to what and how things should be
    implemented...
    That's why I propose basic tags (that are used in iTunes, for example.) it's nothing funky. To find a classical recording, you need the composer (already supported), the work (not supported) and the artist (kind of supported, because one can have more then recording of an artist). That's why something else, a tag for the recording, is needed.

    My proposal regarding the implementation:

    Support of these two basic tags and two or three special purpose tags that can be used for whatever people can come up with. No new default menus. Additional menus could be created with virtual libraries (I think).

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    The other major reason is time available vs. the effort required. This
    would be a rather big change (schema changes, scanner changes, new
    browse modes...). And I just don't have enough time and energy to spend
    on a feature I myself neither use nor even fully understand. It wouldn't
    be a straight forward implementation of a nicely laid out plan. But lots
    of trial and error involved, trying to sort out all opinions etc. I
    think they call it a can of worms. Sorry.
    The time and energy reason I can understand.

    Would it be possible for a plugin to just "scan more and put in the native db"? I think you did this with FTS. If it's in there, couldn't it be used for virtual libraries?

    Sorry for being persistent, but I think this would be a great opportunity.
    QLMS 7.9.2@2.04 x64 (digimaster) with perl 5.28 dedicated to me. :D / QNAP 469L QTS 4.3.4

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by dolodobendan View Post
    Yes, you do. That's how you keep your several recordings of Karajan's Beethoven's Fifth apart.



    That's why I propose basic tags (that are used in iTunes, for example.) it's nothing funky. To find a classical recording, you need the composer (already supported), the work (not supported) and the artist (kind of supported, because one can have more then recording of an artist). That's why something else, a tag for the recording, is needed.


    Sorry for being persistent, but I think this would be a great opportunity.
    I have no particular beef with “recording”. I could take it or leave it and find it tends to be inconsistently applied by metadata providers. Then again it may be popular with non classical folk with multiple reissues of the same recording. Can’t you manage with “year”?

    I would welcome any improvements however piecemeal, and suspect that work would be the number 1 request of most folk.

    Iif Michael is too busy then so be it, but if he should have a moment...
    Last edited by adamdea; 2019-08-12 at 12:11.

  3. #23
    Senior Member dolodobendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by adamdea View Post
    I have no particular beef with ┬“recording┬”. I could take it or leave it and find it tends to be inconsistently applied by metadata providers. Then again it may be popular with non classical folk with multiple reissues of the same recording. Can┬’t you manage with ┬“year┬”?
    Let me ask: Could you?

    Violin Concerto in f minor:

    1950
    1950 (cannot select this one, but it will played right after the first 1950. Yay?)
    1955
    1967
    1980
    1982
    1990
    1995
    1999
    2001
    2009
    2017

    I don't know which is which. Do you? And this is just an example of twelve different recordings of this ONE concert. I think with Mendelssohn's violin concerto it would be something around 30 (the server is rescanning right now, so I have to guess. But I have a lot of recordings of this and Bach's violin concertos.) You may think "Then use artist!". Well, twelve different recordings, but only eight artist. So it would have to be artist and then year or artist and then album or I just scroll down to track x (gruesome for operas with a lot of tracks) to start that recording with the same year tag... And I'd still know nothing about the concert. That's why I (and everyone else with more then three disc of classical music) need the recording tag. They just don't know it, yet.

    Viktoria Mullova / Abbado / Some Symphony Orchestra (some year)
    Viktoria Mullova / Mullova Ensemble (some year, live)

    You need ARTIST, CONDUCTOR, BAND, and YEAR to identify a recording of a single WORK. That's how it's done for ages:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin...hn)#Recordings

    In pop music, you have an artist. That artist makes an album.

    In classical music, you have a composer. He composes works. Artists record this work, often more then once with different orchestras, conductors, etc.

    To put this information in one tag, you need a tag. I called it RECORDING. But as you said, it might me useful for others, too.

    As to the information "inconsistently applied by metadata providers": That will never go away and you'll always have to do manual work to some extend.

    Quote Originally Posted by adamdea View Post
    I would welcome any improvements however piecemeal, and suspect that work would be the number 1 request of most folk.
    I believe the problem is to implement any new tag at all. If it's then two or three tags wouldn't really matter. (That's my guesswork, I could be totally wrong.) And again, I'm all for "custom" tags that people can use for whatever they want. Like browsing female singers only (customtag1=1), live albums only (customtag2=1), studio albums only (customtag2=0 or not set), browse only living artists, browse by their birthday, browse by special days (Date of birth or death)... whatever. I'm confident that people would come up with a lot ideas here. As for the menus, they could be build with adapting the "Sub-Library Demo" plugin.

    Quote Originally Posted by adamdea View Post
    Iif Michael is too busy then so be it, but if he should have a moment...
    Of course. I just dread the day that Erland's plugins stop working.
    Last edited by dolodobendan; 2019-08-12 at 15:27.
    QLMS 7.9.2@2.04 x64 (digimaster) with perl 5.28 dedicated to me. :D / QNAP 469L QTS 4.3.4

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    563
    The overwhelming majority of my music collection is classical and I really have no problem using the existing tags (albeit that I use the album tag for the work and include the composer and main performer in the album name).

    I've no objection to additional tags but there are work arounds for classical. I think we should be extremely grateful and think ourselves very lucky that Michael and many others have devoted their time and energy to supporting LMS and wouldn't want to impose unnecessarily upon his good nature.

    Sorry - just my opinion, for what little it's worth.
    Touch, Metrum Jade, Bryston B4 SST2, PMC OB1i speakers, HP Proliant Microserver/Ubuntu, PC/Windows 7, iPad 4, iPeng, Squeezepad.

  5. #25
    Senior Member dolodobendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    The overwhelming majority of my music collection is classical and I really have no problem using the existing tags (albeit that I use the album tag for the work and include the composer and main performer in the album name).
    This is so wrong on so many levels. Yuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    I've no objection to additional tags but there are work arounds for classical. I think we should be extremely grateful and think ourselves very lucky that Michael and many others have devoted their time and energy to supporting LMS and wouldn't want to impose unnecessarily upon his good nature.

    Sorry - just my opinion, for what little it's worth.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, English isn't my first language, after all. But what I take away here is

    1. You like your way.
    2. You think I'm not grateful (enough).
    3. My proposal is unnecessary because of 1.


    Be it as it may. I don't share your opinion. The very existence of Custom Browse & Scan already proved my point.
    QLMS 7.9.2@2.04 x64 (digimaster) with perl 5.28 dedicated to me. :D / QNAP 469L QTS 4.3.4

  6. #26
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    20,268

    Native support for classical music tags

    > Would it be possible for a plugin to just "scan more and put in the
    > native db"? I think you did this with FTS. If it's in there, couldn't it
    > be used for virtual libraries?


    It certainly could be done in a plugin. But that plugin would have to
    implement a lot of what a "core" integration would require, too. Scanner
    code, database code to store/retrieve the additional information, custom
    browse modes. It's software, it can be done. But it's a lot of work.

    FTS is different, as it's being used for nothing but search. And it's
    not a pure plugin implementation either. There's a few lines in the core
    code to hook in to the plugin's code.

    > Sorry for being persistent, but I think this would be a great
    > opportunity.


    A great opportunity for a plugin or pull request ;-)

    --

    Michael

  7. #27
    Senior Member dolodobendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > Would it be possible for a plugin to just "scan more and put in the
    > native db"? I think you did this with FTS. If it's in there, couldn't it
    > be used for virtual libraries?


    It certainly could be done in a plugin. But that plugin would have to
    implement a lot of what a "core" integration would require, too. Scanner
    code, database code to store/retrieve the additional information, custom
    browse modes. It's software, it can be done. But it's a lot of work.
    I know it's a lot of work. I just wanted to be sure you understand the problem (or maybe just my problem, but Custom Browse & Scan says otherwise), because you said

    a feature I myself neither use nor even fully understand
    The feature would be, you can browse classical music as classical music is browsed:

    An album is not a work. A work can have more than one album and an album can contain more than one work. That's no special case but the rule. I also own several albums that have more than one recording of the same work on it.

    With the proposed tags implemented, it would be possible to browse genres, see the composers available, the works available, and the recordings available.

    As an example: You want to hear a symphony, but you don't know what, yet. Neither the composer, nor the artist. You want to browse your collection. You go to Genre and select Symphonies. You get a list of all composers that have symphonies as a genre tag. You select a composer. You get a list of all works (grouping tag or whatever) that are composed by the selected composer that are symphonies. You select one. You get a list of all recordings that you have of that symphony (To distinguish them, cover, artist, etc. won't suffice. So you need the recording tag. That's why ALL major classical music comes with "notable recordings". They don't show just say that artist, that conductor or that year. You need all of that. With Pink Floyd it'd be: You know the "Wish you were here" album? With Scriabin it's you know that Sonata? Great, you know that recording? It's a different path then Artist / Album. It's Composer / Work / Recording. Always.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    FTS is different, as it's being used for nothing but search. And it's
    not a pure plugin implementation either. There's a few lines in the core
    code to hook in to the plugin's code.

    > Sorry for being persistent, but I think this would be a great
    > opportunity.


    A great opportunity for a plugin or pull request ;-)
    That, too. Seeing your smiley I kind of feel bad to deprive my last one of his or her nose.

    I hope I could help you understand the problem and the "feature" I propose. Which language do I have to learn to create that plugin that would Change the way you listen to music forever(TM)?
    QLMS 7.9.2@2.04 x64 (digimaster) with perl 5.28 dedicated to me. :D / QNAP 469L QTS 4.3.4

  8. #28
    Senior Member dolodobendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Posts
    630
    And despite of what was implied earlier, I do appreciate your work. But I think that goes without saying.

    That's why I help the way I know best. Sometimes it's by testing stuff, sometimes it's by telling them what would be really really great and make them understand that. ;-)
    QLMS 7.9.2@2.04 x64 (digimaster) with perl 5.28 dedicated to me. :D / QNAP 469L QTS 4.3.4

  9. #29
    Senior Member dolodobendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Posts
    630
    That's objectively better than any crazy tag bending, even if it's just one recording. I'm not saying it's perfect. But WAY better. (I browsed here, like God intended , via GENRE (Violinkonzerte), COMPOSER (Bach, Johann Sebastian), WORK (Violinkonzert in E-Dur, BWV 1042), RECORDING (see screenshot)):

    Name:  custombrowse.png
Views: 49
Size:  35.0 KB

    I don't want to go back to crazy tag bending.
    Last edited by dolodobendan; 2019-08-13 at 06:25. Reason: typo
    QLMS 7.9.2@2.04 x64 (digimaster) with perl 5.28 dedicated to me. :D / QNAP 469L QTS 4.3.4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •