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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Yes any other way would actually do something very similar to VPN in the application but badly implemented .
    So why not just use VPN .

    I don’t think hobby devs would like to be responsible for security flaws our music servers . I have great confidence in mherger and pipping work so I just download and see what’s what but if suddenly can be skimmed or be haclked the whole trust for the squeeze ecosytem will dwindle ?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Sorry misspelled stuff , mherger does no see edits , so go back one post
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > Yes, I know it's the only way RIGHT NOW, but let's not pretend a full
    > blown VPN is the only way it can be done.


    It's not the only one, but the most reasonable one.

    When it comes to security there's one very important rule: don't do it
    yourself. You WILL fail. Just last week another breach in Facebook was
    communicated. And that's a multi-billion dollar company.

    > I'm not a 'developer', I'm barely a code tinkerer at this point, but I
    > do understand that this isn't necessarily an easy thing to do.

    ....
    > Lets think outside of the box on this-
    > An ad vs premium model ala SubSonic might be a way to recoup costs and
    > provide future revenue.
    > -OR-
    > If you're initially opposed to this, how about a gofundme to gauge
    > interest and to cover the initial costs, with people who donate
    > receiving some kind of benefit depending on the level of donation?


    If you're not a developer, are you a in finance or marketing? Do you
    have any idea how much that infrastructure would cost? How many users
    would have to pay a monthly few dollars to cover for this cost? Who's
    going to run and maintain it?

    --

    Michael
    Respectfully, I think we are talking apples & oranges here - SubSonic and others, including other open source projects already exist.

    My posts are simply saying 'lets stop with the VPN ONLY talk, and let's figure out how to integrate these pieces of software'.

    Posts discussing the lack of this ability in LMS exist in every conceivable venue on the web - I LOVE LMS, and I believe it is the BEST platform, but it's skipped over by people who want or REQUIRE remote streaming.
    If this situation doesn't change, people will eventually move away from LMS completely, and that would be a shame...

    Use whatever business model you want, if you want - that was not my primary point.
    I only brought it up to point out that there could be money to be made by having established products enhance their product by adapting this tech into their tech.

    There are a lot of smart, capable people within these forums - look at the excitement regarding the MaterialSkin & Squeeze-X projects.
    There has to be someone or group of people willing to make this happen, and I'm willing do donate money, time, or other assets to assist in whatever way I can to make it happen.
    Player: 1 x Transporter w/Trans-knob, 2 x Touch (Active, 3 x Spares), 4 x Boom (Active, 9 x Spares)
    Server: 1 x Win Server (ESXi 6.x) w/LMS, 1 x HP 24" Touch Screen PC w/LMS & SqueezePlay
    Control: 4 x w/iPeng, 1 x Samsung Note 4, 3ea x Fire 7", 8” tablets, 1 x 10" all w/SqueezeCtrl & Player (Angry Goat)
    Audio: Mark Levinson 23.5 Amp, 380s Pre, 390s CD, B&W 801 II, Acoustic Energy AE-2 signature, SOTA Sapphire table

    Computer geek/tech hoarder(!), and DAMN I love the LMS/Squeeze infrastructure!

  4. #14
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Stream LMS music to Ipeng mobilephone when outside wifi coverage?

    Look, this is pretty simple: you want somebody to do work for you. If
    you want to succeed, then there are a few options.

    - find some funds and hire people to do it
    - get your hands dirty, do your homework: go create that gofundme
    project. See whether you can find other users who'd be willing to
    support such development. Find developers who are willing to help you out.

    But please stop pushing people. If your idea isn't convincing enough,
    then you won't win them over by insulting them, claiming how this should
    not be too hard to do etc.

    --

    Michael

  5. #15
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm9999 View Post
    Use whatever business model you want, if you want - that was not my primary point.
    I only brought it up to point out that there could be money to be made by having established products enhance their product by adapting this tech into their tech.
    So since this is a full-blown cloud service: how much would you be willing to pay as a monthly subscription?

    We've had this topic in the past - and I did consider it a few times as a business model before.
    The problem at hand is that I don't like dying business models, in the sense that long term the number of potential users shrinks, not grows.
    Let's all face the truth: people are moving towards streaming instead of owning music. You and me are probably different but the number of people doing this is not growing. It's more complicated, you have to organize your own files and you have to get hold of the files in the first place.
    Spotify et al on the other hand have a readily indexed database with millions and millions of songs and can offer you easy access at home as well as mobile.

    So the question really is not as much one of development but one of "how many are people willing to pay on a subscription basis". And how many of those people are out there?
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippin View Post
    So since this is a full-blown cloud service: how much would you be willing to pay as a monthly subscription?

    We've had this topic in the past - and I did consider it a few times as a business model before.
    The problem at hand is that I don't like dying business models, in the sense that long term the number of potential users shrinks, not grows.
    Let's all face the truth: people are moving towards streaming instead of owning music. You and me are probably different but the number of people doing this is not growing. It's more complicated, you have to organize your own files and you have to get hold of the files in the first place.
    Spotify et al on the other hand have a readily indexed database with millions and millions of songs and can offer you easy access at home as well as mobile.

    So the question really is not as much one of development but one of "how many are people willing to pay on a subscription basis". And how many of those people are out there?
    Exactly this. When I am away from home I listen to Spotify on a Bluetooth speaker. Much easier.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm9999 View Post
    I LOVE LMS, and I believe it is the BEST platform, but it's skipped over by people who want or REQUIRE remote streaming.
    Thats wrong !

    LMS is supported by many plarforms but it isnt a platform itself.
    And that is the big point.
    Win7 win 10 debian macos nasoswtf and many other ways.
    Where do you want to go?

    The only way to go is using lms instead a router, minimize the platforms to a single one and now you must not be aware of how to open a port in a router cause lms would handle it.

    Thats your idea or better that would be the only way to solve it with that little amount of manpower !

    Do you realy want that?

    @Michael dont misunderstood me...

    security is a own thing and until now we are using telnet for some things because the lack of people power and backwards compatiblity to the real slim devices stuff.

    So its not gonna happen - use the best parts for whatever you need like a vpn to this lms for that and a usbdisk for something else.

  8. #18
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    The big point is that LMS was always and remains a slightly geeky product ie you have always needed a bit above normal IT skills to install, set up and run.
    Given that is the case the geekyness required to run LMS is more than enough to setup a simple VPN and that works really well.
    To make LMS available when away from home apart from by VPN means Cloud.
    What geek is going to pay for a Cloud based solution when a VPN costs jack?
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippin View Post
    So since this is a full-blown cloud service: how much would you be willing to pay as a monthly subscription?
    We've had this topic in the past - and I did consider it a few times as a business model before.
    The problem at hand is that I don't like dying business models, in the sense that long term the number of potential users shrinks, not grows.
    Let's all face the truth: people are moving towards streaming instead of owning music. You and me are probably different but the number of people doing this is not growing. It's more complicated, you have to organize your own files and you have to get hold of the files in the first place.
    Spotify et al on the other hand have a readily indexed database with millions and millions of songs and can offer you easy access at home as well as mobile.

    So the question really is not as much one of development but one of "how many are people willing to pay on a subscription basis". And how many of those people are out there?
    NOTE: I reference SubSonic below alot because it is the piece of software that I most recently began playing with when I started this thread. Feel free to substitute ANY software capable of making your personal music available to a 'web/app player'.

    Again, respectfully, I never said it HAD to be a cloud service, or at least start out as one. SubSonic doesn't as it relies on you/it opening a FW port.

    Initially it could start out as an 'open port' on our firewall - after all, SubSonic or a VPN needs one anyway.
    External IP existence would be through any one of the many domain to IP services out on the Internet.

    If it were a cloud service, to answer the question of a subscription fee directly - $5-10/mo, but for the higher level there would probably need to be some other value added benefit for most people.

    As far as gauging interest & funding potential, I suggested setting up a 'gofundme' type account. Until it hits a certain level, no work need be done.
    Another funding source is in-app ads which is what SubSonic does, unless you're a 'premium' member.
    I'm sure there are others, such as an in-app purchase to enable this feature
    But maybe it's not worth the effort - fine.

    So now I'll ask the question that I can't answer and into territory that I only have a cursory knowledge of at best-
    Personally, my thought was more along the lines of an app that runs within our home network that acts as an LMS proxy, but provides the needed security that LMS lacks. It would provide a feed over https to a stripped down 'player only' app on the phone - since there is no reason to control all of LMS. At least initially, 'user' security could be through some sort of certificate that could be imported into the app, distributed via email.

    Could the LMS proxy server app run in some kind of 'sandbox' to prevent other potential of hackery?

    Is there any existing open source software, that's fairly well tested, that could be used to piece something like this together 75% of the way?

    Finally on the subject, since the major players in this space believe this issue to be a dead/silly idea/not worth the effort, I'll drop it, and simply try to find a product like SubSonic, et. al., but if possible with an internet proxy.

    2 additional things-
    Pippin, is there any chance you'd consider adding an SSH option to your app in particular, similar to how the old SoftSqueeze emulator did?
    In my use case, a VPN will not work due to traffic restrictions, as well as internet radio services, etc. - but SSH is allowed, or can be granted.

    Again, this could be provided in a special 'player only' product that costs extra that I would willingly pay.

    Also, to all - I know there is already a plugin for LMS to talk to SubSonic and feed it - I assume it's acting like a SubSonic player.
    Does anyone know if there something to do this in the opposite direction? i.e. something like a SubSonic plugin that can 'pull' from LMS (?), or is there some other method that could achieve this I've missed?
    The idea would be to isolate the 2 products for security, firewalled to only allow specific traffic between the to 'systems'
    Player: 1 x Transporter w/Trans-knob, 2 x Touch (Active, 3 x Spares), 4 x Boom (Active, 9 x Spares)
    Server: 1 x Win Server (ESXi 6.x) w/LMS, 1 x HP 24" Touch Screen PC w/LMS & SqueezePlay
    Control: 4 x w/iPeng, 1 x Samsung Note 4, 3ea x Fire 7", 8” tablets, 1 x 10" all w/SqueezeCtrl & Player (Angry Goat)
    Audio: Mark Levinson 23.5 Amp, 380s Pre, 390s CD, B&W 801 II, Acoustic Energy AE-2 signature, SOTA Sapphire table

    Computer geek/tech hoarder(!), and DAMN I love the LMS/Squeeze infrastructure!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    Look, this is pretty simple: you want somebody to do work for you. If
    you want to succeed, then there are a few options.

    - find some funds and hire people to do it
    - get your hands dirty, do your homework: go create that gofundme
    project. See whether you can find other users who'd be willing to
    support such development. Find developers who are willing to help you out.

    But please stop pushing people. If your idea isn't convincing enough,
    then you won't win them over by insulting them, claiming how this should
    not be too hard to do etc.

    --

    Michael
    Michael & others - I apologize if I've offended anyone with this request, the thread in general, or my 'pushiness'.

    Unfortunately, not all of us are blessed with the industry knowledge & specialized skill set required to pull off a fraction of what has already been built, much less something of this magnitude.

    As I've tried to humbly state - I'm more of an assembler than a builder. Given the building blocks, and time, I might be able to achieve the end goal...or not.
    Player: 1 x Transporter w/Trans-knob, 2 x Touch (Active, 3 x Spares), 4 x Boom (Active, 9 x Spares)
    Server: 1 x Win Server (ESXi 6.x) w/LMS, 1 x HP 24" Touch Screen PC w/LMS & SqueezePlay
    Control: 4 x w/iPeng, 1 x Samsung Note 4, 3ea x Fire 7", 8” tablets, 1 x 10" all w/SqueezeCtrl & Player (Angry Goat)
    Audio: Mark Levinson 23.5 Amp, 380s Pre, 390s CD, B&W 801 II, Acoustic Energy AE-2 signature, SOTA Sapphire table

    Computer geek/tech hoarder(!), and DAMN I love the LMS/Squeeze infrastructure!

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