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Thread: LMS and MQA

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dainapoo View Post
    As I've gone through this and paying attention to Quoboz, I've begun to wonder if that wouldn't be a better alternative. I just wanted to hear what the MQA thing was all about. I think that the S2D will be just fine - I just need to have patience to see my best way forward. I had the impression things were already farther along in general, but, as some of you have said, I should be able to make this work with a downloaded file. Did I ask about needing LMS version 7.9 to play DSD files? Thanks again.
    Best,

    Daina
    Qobuz

    I think the biggest challenge Qobuz is going to face in the US is that none of us can spell the name. :-) It's not even French! https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/act...ed-qobuz174873

    They are arriving soon: https://darko.audio/2018/07/qobuz-cu...-american-pie/

    Join us over on the Qobuz plug-in thread: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...reaming-plugin

    DSD

    I don't recall you asking about DSD, but I can play DOP or native DSD on my S2D via LMS 7.9 in some configurations. I have not tried DSD on earlier versions of LMS, and anyway sending DSD over a network demands a lot of my modest server and clients so I generally keep DSD files local. I'm also not a big fan of DSD — too much high frequency noise — and prefer to transcode and filter which is even more demanding if done on-the-fly, so best to do locally. There are plenty of people out there pushing the DSD envelope with networked RasPi setups and the S2D though, and it's worth taking some time to go through the S2D threads on other forums.
    LMS: SGC microJukebox • Players: Duet, Touch (two), ultraRendu, Mac SqueezePlay, Win Squeezelite-X • Control apps: Android Squeezer, Win Squeezelite-X

  2. #22

    LMS and MQA

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    Qobuz

    I think the biggest challenge Qobuz is going to face in the US is that none of us can spell the name. :-) It's not even French! https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/act...ed-qobuz174873

    They are arriving soon: https://darko.audio/2018/07/qobuz-cu...-american-pie/

    Join us over on the Qobuz plug-in thread: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...reaming-plugin

    DSD

    I don't recall you asking about DSD, but I can play DOP or native DSD on my S2D via LMS 7.9 in some configurations. I have not tried DSD on earlier versions of LMS, and anyway sending DSD over a network demands a lot of my modest server and clients so I generally keep DSD files local. I'm also not a big fan of DSD — too much high frequency noise — and prefer to transcode and filter which is even more demanding if done on-the-fly, so best to do locally. There are plenty of people out there pushing the DSD envelope with networked RasPi setups and the S2D though, and it's worth taking some time to go through the S2D threads on other forums.
    Yeah I'd read that I needed 7.9 for DSD and I'm running 7.7. I have about 25,000 files but no DSD - it's kind of like MQA - I just wanted to hear it. Yes, I'm thinking Qobuz might be a better alternative. I'll head over to the thread for it. I heard some folks have been VPN'ing into Qobuz - I could do that but I think I'll just wait. Ive waited this long - what's another couple of months. I've been around the block, starting out in the early 70's and then working in the biz in the 70's and 80's. Then I went dormant for years and then, in about 2006, I jumped back in. I started out with a Benchmark DAC, a DAC 1 Pre, but some misfortune ub 2015 caused me to sell a lot of my hi fi, and I've been re-building since then, and going in a completely different direction, which is fun, actually and coming up with something that sounds better than the conglomeration of stuff I had before is pretty cool, having become a bit of a fan of vintage stuff from the late 60's. The HRT Streamer II I got from an audio buddy back in 2015 for a bottle of whiskey and it sounded every bit as good. About the time I sold everything I started playing with the Pi, which replaced an old desktop PC running Foobar. But I will say I did immediately notice a difference with the Allo's better USB configuration. The S2D sounds good, but I'm not sure how much of what I'm hearing is the Allo and how much is the S2D. I've had the Allo a couple of weeks longer, but I've improved the system. And I'm still happy to have a DAC that both decodes and renders MQA. Anyway, thanks again. I'll be back when I give the Windows idea a shot this weekend. Best.

  3. #23

    LMS and MQA

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    Yes just to assure yourself that you can indeed play MQA through LMS, connect the S2D directly to the Windows box via USB, with nothing in-between. My thinking is that Squeezelite-X will make this easier, but if you have any other instances of Squeezelite installed there could be complications.

    The weakest link in your chain is the Squeezebox 2. For a Squeezebox Touch I would install the edo extension, which enables a USB connection to an external DAC at Hi-Res bit rates. I don't think the Squeezebox 2 is capable of any of that.
    I just thought I'd let you know I heard from Hans Beekhuyzen again, and he swears that the exact set up I have worked for him. This is Allo USBridge, DietPi running Squeezelite into the Pro Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. Here is what he wrote me:

    "ANY streamer that is able to deliver 24 bit 44,1/48 kHz BITPERFECT to a DAC like the Pro-ject that is able to decode and render MQA will work. Even 10 year old products. There is NO licence involved and nothing has to change in Volumio, PiCorePlayer, MPD or any other system. I have all tested it here. Licence is only coming into play if the software wants to do the decoding, like Roon, Amarra and Audirvana. Then you could suffice with render-only MQA DAC's like the AudioQuest Dragonflies. And do high-res up to 96 kHz on regular DAC's. But since you have a DAC that does both the decoding and rendering, you don't need the software to do the decoding. I will try to make some time to setup my USBridge to replicate your situation but I can't do this overnight."

    I think I've asked before - I know that LMS has to have volume set to 100 and all processing must be turned off. I believe I have found this on MySqueezebox.com. I have attached a screen shot of my player. Volume is set to 100, Preamp Volume is 0, Crossfade is None and Crossfeed duration is 0. And I have all the settings turned off inside the settings on web player app. ARE THESE THE SETTINGS?

    Best,

    Daina
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    Last edited by dainapoo; 2018-08-03 at 00:26.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dainapoo View Post
    I think I've asked before - I know that LMS has to have volume set to 100 and all processing must be turned off. I believe I have found this on MySqueezebox.com. I have attached a screen shot of my player. Volume is set to 100, Preamp Volume is 0, Crossfade is None and Crossfeed duration is 0. And I have all the settings turned off inside the settings on web player app. ARE THESE THE SETTINGS?

    Best,

    Daina
    My ultraRendu's Player\Audio settings are exactly the same except no choices are grayed out, and I didn't even bother to disable crossfade. MQA just works. I believe the problem is not in LMS; it's somewhere in your other software or hardware. MySqueezebox.com has nothing to do with this situation at all, and can be ignored.
    LMS: SGC microJukebox • Players: Duet, Touch (two), ultraRendu, Mac SqueezePlay, Win Squeezelite-X • Control apps: Android Squeezer, Win Squeezelite-X

  5. #25

    LMS and MQA

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    My ultraRendu's Player\Audio settings are exactly the same except no choices are grayed out, and I didn't even bother to disable crossfade. MQA just works. I believe the problem is not in LMS; it's somewhere in your other software or hardware. MySqueezebox.com has nothing to do with this situation at all, and can be ignored.
    Yep, I think so too. Hope to figure it out this weekend.

    Best

  6. #26

    LMS and MQA

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    My ultraRendu's Player\Audio settings are exactly the same except no choices are grayed out, and I didn't even bother to disable crossfade. MQA just works. I believe the problem is not in LMS; it's somewhere in your other software or hardware. MySqueezebox.com has nothing to do with this situation at all, and can be ignored.
    Well, I've been trying to get Squeezelite X set up on my Windows box. But I'm only semi-literate in techno stuff, so I'm failing on getting it set up. Guess I'm going to have to go find a setup video because I just have no idea how they think I'm just going to know this stuff. It's just another thing I gotta figure out JUST to see if the DAC works! So, I took a break and hooked up the streamer and player I had before all this started - A Raspberry Pi running Volumio. Had to fiddle with settings and then SUDDENLY, I'M PLAYING MQA FILES AND THE BLUE MQA LIGHT, FOR THE FIRST TIME IS ON THE S2D! Only two files, that I'd downloaded from 2L, and there were a couple of hiccups with both, but the dang DAC DOES play MQA. I was sending it back, really was. Was tired of messing with it. And, Hans Beekhuyzen was of absolutely no help. After telling me initially that he had run MQA through the Allo with LMS/Squeezelite and a S2D, it turns out he didn't even try that. It was the Allo with Volumio through a Meridian DAC. All he could say was "must be your settings, or the DAC is defective". I wanted to know what his settings were, but since he didn't even try this combination, he couldn't tell me. I'm sorry, but what a poser. I stopped my support through Patreon and let him have it. I am disgusted. I specifically asked him about this specific set up before I purchased it because I wanted someone who had actually used it successfully. He was pretty dismissive too. I now think that I may know as much, if not more, than him. BUT I got MQA! I'll keep working on the LMS/Allo combination and hope to try the Volumio Allo combination too, but still, I want to get this working with LMS. Having said that, I'm not totally sure what all the excitement is about. LOL. You saw that one coming, I'll bet! I had the same file in 352 PCM as well as MQA, AND DSD 256 that it played flawlessly, and they were different, but neither were night and day different versus a good old 44.1 FLAC file. I'm wondering now about waiting on Qoboz and not worrying about Tidal at all. Another thing I already had suspected - I think the Allo over the Pi made more of a differnce than the S2D over the HRT Streamer II. I noticed a difference right off when I switched streamers, 2 weeks before I even had the new DAC. The DAC probably makes a small difference, but, for what it's worth, the streamer is the big standout. Anyway, in MQA, DSD and high rez PCM it was all very good. The DSD seemed to offer more high frequency extension but that could have caused pain after awhile, so... seems like I read, I think it was you, left channel, who said something about high frequency screeching or something with DSD, right? Well, too soon for me to determine. But more of it, I'd say. I'll be back with more now that I've made ANY progress.
    Last edited by dainapoo; 2018-08-07 at 23:32.

  7. #27
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    Congratulations! Now that your old Pi and Volumio have proven it's possible, I see no reason for you to test this on your Windows box. But for the record, on Windows 10 Squeezelite-X should install automatically from the Microsoft Store, on Win 7 you just need to click the install exe file, but — per the-readme-file-that-nobody-ever-reads — it doesn't work on Server, Vista, or XP.

    I'm not surprised Hans had a senior moment when it comes to which boxes he tested with which; his main value to the community is his overall macro analyses, and anyway we all agree with him that your Allo setup should be working fine. And I say all this frustration getting there just means you're going to appreciate being able to compare MQA to other encoding all the more!
    LMS: SGC microJukebox • Players: Duet, Touch (two), ultraRendu, Mac SqueezePlay, Win Squeezelite-X • Control apps: Android Squeezer, Win Squeezelite-X

  8. #28

    LMS and MQA

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    Congratulations! Now that your old Pi and Volumio have proven it's possible, I see no reason for you to test this on your Windows box. But for the record, on Windows 10 Squeezelite-X should install automatically from the Microsoft Store, on Win 7 you just need to click the install exe file, but — per the-readme-file-that-nobody-ever-reads — it doesn't work on Server, Vista, or XP.

    I'm not surprised Hans had a senior moment when it comes to which boxes he tested with which; his main value to the community is his overall macro analyses, and anyway we all agree with him that your Allo setup should be working fine. And I say all this frustration getting there just means you're going to appreciate being able to compare MQA to other encoding all the more!
    Yeah, how about that? I was at the point that I really began to think there was something wrong with the DAC. Since I'd read here about Volumio and the S2D working, and since Hans, it turns out, didn't test my setup but an Allo with Volumio through a Meridian Explorer, I just thought what the heck. At first DSD almost played, but had a bunch of hiss. I played with the settings in Volumio and presto it was working. Then I played an MQA file, but I was in the other room, and not for a second did I think the DAC was going to register MQA. In fact, it was a 2L file, and I have others, so I didn't even realize I was playing one- it was just the next file after the DSD file. I headed to the kitchen and glanced over - I couldn't believe it. Now I will say, I've not played an MQA file perfectly yet. Every file has one or two glitches, and I think I've done everything to limit them, so not perfect, but good enough for now. Since I'm fairly confident the LMS settings are correct now, I think the issue is with the Allo. The Allo now comes with a fancy GUI version of DietPi, but the original DietPi editor is still there and it has many more settings. And I played with that too, when I first got it. You get into through the terminal and I've gotten pretty good at it. The Allo Tech support guy has had me check a few things, but I think somewhere along the line when I was trying to get it to work I changed something. It didn't work at all at first, and the Allo user's manual says nothing about specific DAC settings etc. The Tech just told me, "Change the DAC to....." and "change the change the resolution setting to and bit depth to....." and so on. With the HRT Streamer, the DAC setting was something called DAC 1.1, but with the S2D, it's set back to just DAC. And there are settings that turn DSD on and off. And that's with the fancy Allo GUI. I asked him if there was a place I could find this stuff. He never responded, so I'm not afraid to email him back. Now, HE didn't get Volumio on the Allo to work in MQA either but this is because his DAC was an iFi rendering only DAC, so he might not know what setting is needed either, but I'm hoping that within the old style DietPi menus, I changed one thing wrong. I'll try it this weekend. Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I see your handle popping up everywhere! So, I appreciate the well respected help. I'll keep you posted. Best~
    Last edited by dainapoo; 2018-08-09 at 00:36.

  9. #29

    LMS and MQA and DSD

    Quote Originally Posted by left channel View Post
    Congratulations! Now that your old Pi and Volumio have proven it's possible, I see no reason for you to test this on your Windows box. But for the record, on Windows 10 Squeezelite-X should install automatically from the Microsoft Store, on Win 7 you just need to click the install exe file, but — per the-readme-file-that-nobody-ever-reads — it doesn't work on Server, Vista, or XP.

    I'm not surprised Hans had a senior moment when it comes to which boxes he tested with which; his main value to the community is his overall macro analyses, and anyway we all agree with him that your Allo setup should be working fine. And I say all this frustration getting there just means you're going to appreciate being able to compare MQA to other encoding all the more!
    OK, I'm back on the Allo with LMS. I upgraded to 7.9.2 successfully. Everything plays fine except MQA and DSD. DSD files have music playing in the background with a bunch of hash in the foreground. It was like this in Volumio, at first until I changed one setting - that was seemingly random to me, but it worked. I know the Allo has a setting for Native DSD playback and I have that set appropriately, according to the Allo Tech. I've reached out to him to see if there is any setting he might notice and I'm going into the DietPi interface to see if anything is obviously messed up. The simpler version of the interface, made just for the Allo, I'm quite certain is correct. Everything else except DSD and MQA. I've upgraded, I've re-scanned, I've re-started. It all looks good. I don't think there is anything else to do on LMS. I'm going into the old Diet Pi Interface......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................

    OMG! OMG! OMG! HALLELUJAH!!!! I found it! I found it! I found it!!! I went into the original DietPi Mixer, and followed series a of menus down into the ALSA Mixer and into the Project Clock Selector. Now I had never been this far down into the system before. It's about 4 or 5 menus down. Allo doesn't even tell you how to get into this terminal program, and that is mostly what I did, but if you look on the left you will see that it is set to 93%. As soon as I changed it to 100, that was it. LMS had volume at 100%, the Project as well. There is no setting on the Allo gui for this but that was it. I've screenshot this stuff in case anyone EVER has this issue again. But I'll just include the offending setup area, along with the Allo Gui for comparison.

    But both MQA and DSD now work. Let me say that again. They both now WORK!! There, that's better. Now, still I can't get MQA to play through the Tidal Plugin. And I'm going to assume that's just the way it is, for now. Or something for another time, correct? Thank you all for your patience and help on this. You gave me the stamina to stay with it. I'm NOT a geek. But I CAN follow rabbits down holes and I generally CAN follow directions. It's always frustrating for me. I own a Linux desktop computer as well, since 2007, and I used to get so angry, but somehow it always works out. Just stick with it. Thanks, I think, most of all to left channel. I know you have vastly more experience than me, but you never lost your cool. And I was definitely losing mine. Best~
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    Last edited by dainapoo; 2018-08-10 at 00:45.

  10. #30
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    Congratulations on your successful rabbit hunt! The Tidal plug-in does not support MQA pass-through, so there's nothing else to do but sit back and enjoy the music - perhaps with a beer and a nice plate of rabbit. Or rarebit. Or something.
    LMS: SGC microJukebox • Players: Duet, Touch (two), ultraRendu, Mac SqueezePlay, Win Squeezelite-X • Control apps: Android Squeezer, Win Squeezelite-X

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