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  1. #1

    Mac: can you please store Installed Plugins somewhere else than in the cache folder?

    Hi.

    I'm running LMS on a Mac where among many other things LMS stores installed plugins in my user's cache folder.

    The problem is: it's not a very safe place to store stuff in because every now and then the entire cache folder gets deleted due to (major) OS updates, trouble shooting and what not.
    Ideally, I could just do another LMS rescan and be done with it. BUT the installed plugins got deleted (as part of the cache folder) and I need to reinstall all of the plugins. Plus at some point, some plugins that are no longer available in any repo may be gone for good.
    Especially, since the Cache folder is excluded from most backups by design/default, TimeMachine is just one example. So I wouldn't be able to recover lost plugins if they couldn't be re-downloaded from their repos.

    I know this seems like a small matter and I don't know how this is handled on other OS.

    Talking for the Mac version: couldn't you move just this "installed plugins" folder somewhere safe to ensure minimal downtime/hassle when the cache folder gets deleted again?
    Maybe to the Applications Support folder (~/Library/Application Support/)? I think that one already has a Squeezebox subfolder in it where you could put it.

    Oh, BTW, I get a codesigning related warning ("not a verified developer...") since the last 2 Mac OSX installer packages (beta).

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Mac: can you please store Installed Pluginssomewhere else than in the cache folder?

    > The problem is: it's not a very safe place to store stuff in because
    > every now and then the entire cache folder gets deleted due to (major)
    > OS updates, trouble shooting and what not.


    This never happened to me. Really. I do have one system I'm always on
    the latest macOS dev build, just to make sure it doesn't break LMS. And
    I never lost plugins or whatsoever.

    > Ideally, I could just do another LMS rescan and be done with it. BUT the
    > *installed* plugins got deleted (as part of the cache folder) and I need
    > to reinstall all of the plugins. Plus at some point, some plugins that
    > are no longer available in any repo may be gone for good.


    If you want to be sure you have a copy of those plugins, download them,
    put them aside. But don't rely on them remaining in the cache folder. We
    don't need to modify code to save you the backup work :-).

    > Oh, BTW, I get a codesigning related warning ("not a verified
    > developer...") since the last 2 Mac OSX installer packages (beta).


    Thanks, will look into this. We did not always sign the beta installers,
    but I thought I set this up a few months ago.

    --

    Michael

  3. #3
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > The problem is: it's not a very safe place to store stuff in because
    > every now and then the entire cache folder gets deleted due to (major)
    > OS updates, trouble shooting and what not.


    This never happened to me. Really. I do have one system I'm always on
    the latest macOS dev build, just to make sure it doesn't break LMS. And
    I never lost plugins or whatsoever.
    Did you ever have a full primary drive on that device?
    That happens frequently on these new SSD entry level models Apple now offers of MacBook and MacBook Air
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

  4. #4
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Mac: can you please store Installed Pluginssomewhere else than in the cache folder?

    > Did you ever have a full primary drive on that device?

    No. It's something I'm always on the lookout.

    > That happens frequently on these new SSD entry level models Apple now
    > offers of MacBook and MacBook Air


    My test unit running latest dev versions of macOS indeed is a little
    MBA. But as I use it to test compatibility with a few select
    applications there's not much else on it.

    So are you saying that macOS would automatically start to delete caches
    etc. when disk space becomes an issue?


    --

    Michael

  5. #5
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Actually I donĺt know but I do know it does all kinds of weird stuff when running out of disk space.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin View Post
    it does all kinds of weird stuff
    True. And not only when running out of disk space (which happens sometimes to me, very small SSD...). And as I've come to know the cache folder as unreliable I guess I was just surprised that LMS stores so much in such a delicate place, esp. the installed plugins.
    But ok, that's not going to change obviously...
    so I suppose I better make to manual backup of my installed plugins as suggested because most backup software does not include the cache folder.

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    If you want to be sure you have a copy of those plugins, download them, put them aside. But don't rely on them remaining in the cache folder.
    Once I tried to 'reinstall' a plugin by putting a copy of its folder (named like the plugin) back into the installed plugins folder (the one in the cache folder). All went well - until I tried to install another plugin and the 'reinstalled' one had just disappeared.

    Is reinstalling a plugin as simple as putting the folder back in the Installed Plugins folder or is there more to consider? For example, is there a file where LMS stores a list of installed plugins or does it just scan the "installed plugins" folder?

    Thanks for your help.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by afriend View Post
    Is reinstalling a plugin as simple as putting the folder back in the Installed Plugins folder or is there more to consider? For example, is there a file where LMS stores a list of installed plugins or does it just scan the "installed plugins" folder?
    No.

    The installer plugin keeps track of the installed plugins in the Cache/plug-data.yaml file. If any of the "installed" plugins are deleted, the plugin installer will automatically reinstall using the plug-data.yaml file.

    How does the Mac "know" the Cache directory is a cache directory - it cannot assume just by name ?
    How is it excluded from backup process ?
    Is this part of the installation process ?
    Where is the list of temporary directories that can be deleted/excluded from backup kept on a Mac ?
    Would it not be better to get the Cache directory off this list.

  8. #8
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    How does the Mac "know" the Cache directory is a cache directory - it cannot assume just by name ?
    The Mac has a folder tree for Caches, it's this tree where LMS installs the plugin data, not the application data ("Application Support") tree where e.g. preferences and - ironically - LMS provided plugins are stored.

    The Cache tree is explicitly for purgeable data so the OS could try to free up space there, that would be expected behavior.

    Would it not be better to get the Cache directory off this list.
    Getting the plugin directories off this tree is what this thread is about, I believe.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippin View Post
    The Mac has a folder tree for Caches, it's this tree where LMS installs the plugin data, not the application data ("Application Support") tree where e.g. preferences and - ironically - LMS provided plugins are stored.

    The Cache tree is explicitly for purgeable data so the OS could try to free up space there, that would be expected behavior.
    Thanks I don't have a Mac - so I needed background.

    Getting the plugin directories off this tree is what this thread is about, I believe.
    As I understand it, the OP suggested just moving the Cache/Plugins/InstalledPlugins directory - I'm saying this won't work because plugin-data.yaml is saved in top level cache directory so you have to put the LMS Cache directory somewhere else and not in the Mac folder tree of Caches perhaps by using the LMS "--cachedir" parameter on the command line. This would mean OP has to clear LMS Cache manaually.

  10. #10
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Mac: can you please store Installed Pluginssomewhere else than in the cache folder?

    > The Cache tree is explicitly for purgeable data so the OS could try to
    > free up space there, that would be expected behavior.


    And LMS is supposed to re-install plugins missing from it's
    InstalledPlugins folder. If that fails because some repository has
    disappeared, then this certainly is frustrating. But nothing we should
    try to work around by changing LMS. You can manually install plugins.
    The folder is shown in Settings/Information. Just keep a copy of the ZIP
    file, if it's important to you.

    --

    Michael

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