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  1. #21
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I read somewhere that vinyl sales in 2014 had increased dramatically.
    It is always easy to do dramatic increase from "almost nothing" to "very little"

    "In November 2014, it was reported that over one million vinyl records had been sold in the UK since the beginning of the year. Sales had not reached this level since 1996. The British Phonographic Industry (BPI) predicted that Christmas sales would bring the total for the year to around 1.2 million. However, vinyl sales were still a very small proportion of total music sales. Pink Floyd’s The Endless River became the fastest-selling UK vinyl release of 2014 - and the fastest-selling since 1997 - despite selling only 6,000 copies."

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    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  2. #22
    Senior Member Pascal Hibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I am thinking you are a Mac person - that's a firewire interface. I am mainly PC so its USB for me. I will have a look at Abletron.

    I use one of these in the Living Room hooked into the Tape Loop of my Amp - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UC...hringer+uca222
    I'm also a PC user. It is true that many laptops today come without firewire and that is an issue for devices such as the TC. Currently I use my old laptop, which has a firewire port, dedicated for the TC interface and Ableton. I only mentioned the TC because it is high quality hardware and it comes bundled with Ableton. The Konnekt Live, which is the model I have, also has an RIAA amplifier option.
    But you can use your existing USB interface with Ableton too. The Intro version is not that expensive (I believe it's about 99 Euro of so).
    Cambridge Audio 851D-S -> Focal MP1200 -> Focal Electra 1028 Be
    1 x SB Boom, 1 x SB Radio, 1 x SB Touch and 2 x RPI 2B
    1 x SB3 and 1 x SB Touch in storage
    ReadyNAS NVX running LMS 7.9.0.
    iPeng on iPhone, SqueezePad & iPeng on iPad.
    http://www.last.fm/user/phibon

  3. #23
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    Digitizing Vinyl

    I'm curious if anyone has compared recordings made via their computers with something along the lines of a Roland R-05. My first attempts at digitizing were done in 1998 using a computer and were disastrous...too many dropped samples. I know that things have improved dramatically since then, but I've never tried again, finding it easier first to use a standalone CD recorder and later the Zoom H2 and now Roland R-05. I've heard lots of complaints about computers generating noise, yet it seems like the computer route is how the "serious" people do their digitizing.

    I've found the little standalone recorders very easy to use and, to my ears, they sound good. I capture and post-process at 24/96, then use SoX to downsample the finalized versions to 16/44.1. I also keep the raw files archived to Blu-ray in case I need to go back and fix something (which has definitely happened).

    Am I going to wake up some day and suddenly hate all my captures when I finally hear whatever sonic disaster I've apparently been missing all this time?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Pascal Hibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atrocity View Post
    I'm curious if anyone has compared recordings made via their computers with something along the lines of a Roland R-05.
    I can only say that my "vinyl rips" (recorded with my TC interface and Ableton) sound exactly the same as the vinyl. That is, as long as I didn't run it through clickrepair, which I only use when the record has a lot of pops and clicks. But I have no drop outs or anything.
    Everything is computer based these days. Ableton, Pro Tools, and many other software based solutions are very popular and are taking over the hardware mixers and recorders.
    Cambridge Audio 851D-S -> Focal MP1200 -> Focal Electra 1028 Be
    1 x SB Boom, 1 x SB Radio, 1 x SB Touch and 2 x RPI 2B
    1 x SB3 and 1 x SB Touch in storage
    ReadyNAS NVX running LMS 7.9.0.
    iPeng on iPhone, SqueezePad & iPeng on iPad.
    http://www.last.fm/user/phibon

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by atrocity View Post
    I'm curious if anyone has compared recordings made via their computers with something along the lines of a Roland R-05. My first attempts at digitizing were done in 1998 using a computer and were disastrous...too many dropped samples. I know that things have improved dramatically since then, but I've never tried again, finding it easier first to use a standalone CD recorder and later the Zoom H2 and now Roland R-05. I've heard lots of complaints about computers generating noise, yet it seems like the computer route is how the "serious" people do their digitizing.
    My guess is that back in 1998 you were probably using some sort of old Soundblaster or perhaps an Ensoniq, probably on an ISA bus. Soundcards of that era were indeed prone to picking up weird noises from the activities of other subsystems in the PC - things like the video card, even the mouse. What made it even more annoying was that the noises were not constant - you'd often get little "chirrups" coming and going. (I started digitizing vinyl back in 1994, and used an external A/D converter going through a Zefiro ZA1 SPDIF I/O card specifically to avoid those kind of noise problems).

    But in the last 15 or so years, most PCI bus soundcards have been pretty immune to noise pickup. I use an M-Audio AP2496 and it doesn't pick up any audible noise at all. The same is true of all the other well-respected soundcards. That said, if I was in need of a new soundcard, I'd almost certainly go for an external USB device, simply because they are more flexible and can be moved easily from PC to PC.
    Transporter -> ATC SCM100A

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveb View Post
    My guess is that back in 1998 you were probably using some sort of old Soundblaster or perhaps an Ensoniq, probably on an ISA bus. Soundcards of that era were indeed prone to picking up weird noises from the activities of other subsystems in the PC - things like the video card, even the mouse. What made it even more annoying was that the noises were not constant - you'd often get little "chirrups" coming and going. (I started digitizing vinyl back in 1994, and used an external A/D converter going through a Zefiro ZA1 SPDIF I/O card specifically to avoid those kind of noise problems).

    But in the last 15 or so years, most PCI bus soundcards have been pretty immune to noise pickup. I use an M-Audio AP2496 and it doesn't pick up any audible noise at all. The same is true of all the other well-respected soundcards. That said, if I was in need of a new soundcard, I'd almost certainly go for an external USB device, simply because they are more flexible and can be moved easily from PC to PC.
    I must have started in about 2009. The initial results were indeed iffy. Largely due to the PCs onboard soundcard. When I moved to USB soundcard the results improved massively. That said a lot has to do with TT setup and the condition of cartridge, styli and the records themselves. All of the software I have ever used has been designed for purpose and follows the same steps as follows:

    1) Record to WAV
    2) Download album art & metadata
    3) Split tracks
    4) Apply click correction etc
    5) Burn to Audio CD (optional)
    6) Write files - your choice of formats

    I have used Spin It Again but currently use VinylStudio due to its better (IMHO) correction algorythmns. VinylStudio gets very good write ups.
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal Hibon View Post
    I can only say that my "vinyl rips" (recorded with my TC interface and Ableton) sound exactly the same as the vinyl. That is, as long as I didn't run it through clickrepair, which I only use when the record has a lot of pops and clicks. But I have no drop outs or anything.
    Everything is computer based these days. Ableton, Pro Tools, and many other software based solutions are very popular and are taking over the hardware mixers and recorders.
    I should have been clear that I really just use the Roland for the initial capture. The more or less cassette deck like interface and ease of connecting to any arbitrary component makes it easy to use. But I digitize vinyl (three turntables including one just for 78s), cassettes and reels, so it's much easier for me to move the little recorder around than the playback components.

    Once the initial capture has been made, I immediately copy the WAV to the computer to make it pretty. I'm also a fan of ClickRepair, though I've learned the hard way that you have to listen very closely to what it's doing. Sometimes it's so perfect it's almost like black magic, other times it wipes out as much useful signal as noise.

    I can't tell the difference between my captures and the records either (well, thanks to cleanup, sometimes the captures are better!) but I was curious if anyone with better ears than mine has any complaints with the standalone devices.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    I must have started in about 2009. The initial results were indeed iffy. Largely due to the PCs onboard soundcard. When I moved to USB soundcard the results improved massively.
    I've noticed noise at the analog output even on a relatively new computer. I solved that with a cheap USB to S/PDIF device, though it resamples everything to 48k.

    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    That said a lot has to do with TT setup and the condition of cartridge, styli and the records themselves.
    Ancient Sony PS-X75 with a brand new Audio-Technica AT440MLa.

    Maybe I should take a look at external USB stuff again just for fun.

    Thanks to everyone for the responses!

  9. #29
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    It is always easy to do dramatic increase from "almost nothing" to "very little"

    "In November 2014, it was reported that over one million vinyl records had been sold in the UK since the beginning of the year. Sales had not reached this level since 1996. The British Phonographic Industry (BPI) predicted that Christmas sales would bring the total for the year to around 1.2 million. However, vinyl sales were still a very small proportion of total music sales. Pink Floyd’s The Endless River became the fastest-selling UK vinyl release of 2014 - and the fastest-selling since 1997 - despite selling only 6,000 copies."

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    Another interesting graph... Volume and value in sales based on RIAA US numbers (from this page):
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    "Fastest selling since 1997" isn't bad but we're talking about LP numbers just around the peak of CD sales which would have been around 2000 in terms of unit sales.

    I think what could be interesting to see is something like a zoomed in graph of unit vs. sales$$$ between the different formats in the last 10 years. Unit cost for an LP is substantially higher than the same CD and digtal downloads. Despite small sales numbers, the amount of money actually made from the LP could actually be gaining substantially since the 2012 graph, outstripping the number of units sold; hence incentive to push LP sales and release of special remaster / box sets. Although of course we don't know what the manufacturing cost looks like and whether the actual margin is getting better due to inflation.

    Ultimate, it is the number sold that's best indicator of popularity since they cannot be replicated like digital. But I think the spread between that and $$$ could be an interesting indicator of "hype incentive" for companies.

    Curious, do many of you guys buy much NEW vinyl these days?

    (Here's the inflation adjusted $$$ numbers for completeness - I must say the sales numbers for cassette was pretty good even up to 2000!)
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    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by atrocity View Post
    I've noticed noise at the analog output even on a relatively new computer. I solved that with a cheap USB to S/PDIF device, though it resamples everything to 48k.



    Ancient Sony PS-X75 with a brand new Audio-Technica AT440MLa.

    Maybe I should take a look at external USB stuff again just for fun.

    Thanks to everyone for the responses!
    If you have a tape loop on your amp the Behringer UCA202 is a cheap way of trying it out - I'd also recommend VinylStudio which has a trial mode (5 albums). When you plug the Behringer into the PC just make sure that the software sets it up in 2 channel mode correctly. When I first connected it set itself up as 1 channel i.e mono and I didn't immediately notice.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UC...hringer+uca202

    http://alpinesoft.co.uk/ - VinylStudio

    http://alpinesoft.co.uk/VinylStudio/..._contents.aspx - Online Manual

    Also loads of stuff in a fairly active Tech Support Forum
    VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
    Office - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom
    Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
    Bedroom (TV) - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
    Everything controlled by iPeng

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