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  1. #2061
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippe_44 View Post
    Here is a flac example I just did with the flc->flc rule not being applied, but the <codecs> for that player are "flc,pcm,mp3"
    Code:
    [18-08-25 14:10:34.5786] Slim::Player::Song::new (108) index 0 -> file:///D:/Users/.../Dropbox/Development/Musique/Tests/L16-192-flac.flac
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0400] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::enabledFormat (209) Checking to see if flc-flc-*-* is enabled
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0406] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (242) Checking formats for: flc-flc-*-*
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0409] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (250)    enabled
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0411] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (252)   Found command: -
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0412] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (382) Rejecting - because required capability D not supported: 
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0420] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (242) Checking formats for: flc-pcm-*-*
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0421] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::enabledFormat (209) Checking to see if flc-pcm-*-* is enabled
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0423] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (250)    enabled
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0424] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (252)   Found command: [flac] -dcs --force-raw-format --endian=little --sign=signed $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0428] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (382) Rejecting [flac] -dcs --force-raw-format --endian=little --sign=signed $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ because required capability D not supported: 
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0434] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (242) Checking formats for: flc-mp3-*-*
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0435] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::enabledFormat (209) Checking to see if flc-mp3-*-* is enabled
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0436] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (250)    enabled
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0438] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::checkBin (252)   Found command: [flac] -dcs $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [lame] --silent -q $QUALITY$ $RESAMPLE$ $BITRATE$ - -
    [18-08-25 14:10:37.0441] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (446) Matched: flc->mp3 via: [flac] -dcs $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [lame] --silent -q $QUALITY$ $RESAMPLE$ $BITRATE$ - -
    Have you also checked what the "file format" page in LMS settings, advanced says regarding flac? Because if it is, even with the rule
    Code:
    flc flc transcode *
    	# FT:{START=--skip=%t}U:{END=--until=%v}D:{RESAMPLE=-r %d}
    	[flac] -dcs $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [sox] -q -t wav - -t flac -C 0 $RESAMPLE$ -
    You'll go mp3 - I just tested that to be sure
    This stuff gets very tangled. I decided to completely remove the C3PO plugin, rather than just disable it for this player, and re-run some tests to see if it made a difference. It does, and I'll ask why on the appropriate thread. For your information, if C3PO is installed, the flc transcode entry in convert.conf is ignored, and the logic drops through to use mp3. If C3PO is not installed, the flc to flac transcode entry is used appropriately, LMS downsamples 192000 flac to 96000 flac and that's what the UPnP bridge sees.

    For your info, two server logs are attached, one without C3PO installed, and with it installed. In the latter case it's not enabled for the player, but it does mess up the transcoding. This clearly isn't your problem.

    I use C3PO to good effect with other players, so I'll keep it installed and find a way round the problems it has created. I believe setting the UPnP player's ability to 192000 removes the unnecessary mp3 conversion, so will try that.

    I still haven't got C3PO to work with UPnP, but that's for another day.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    LMS 8.1 on PC, Xubuntu 20.04, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. 2 Touches & EDO.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Also Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 20.04 laptop firefox/upplay or Android mobile with Squeeze-Ctrl/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  2. #2062
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    I'm still failing to understand I'm afraid. You say '"Because if it is, even...", but you don't say what "it is"?
    Sorry I meant if it is ‘disabled’
    LMS 8.1.x on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  3. #2063
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    I think I have now worked my thoughts on this into a workable solution for me.

    1. I'd quite like gapless on my Marantz (if not, I don't think there's any point in my using the new features)
    2. I don't want transcoding twice anywhere - so I just need C3PO to keep out of the way, and LMS to send stuff through unchanged
    3. So I set the UPnP config for my Marantz UPnP to declare that it can do pretty much anything I want - aac, pcm, flc, mp3 at up to 24/192000 quality (the most I ever use), even though the player can't actually do some of those things
    4. I then use the new UPnP bridge transcoding to get the best out of the player, all at the same quality so that 'flow' works

    For my Marantz I think that means transcoding to wav (not raw), 24/96000, Packed Type 1, and setting 'flow' but NOT 'No Higher'. I don't miss the track details display since it's a very basic one on this player, and my controlling browser is in the same room, showing me what I am playing.

    I tried transcoding to flac, but 'flow' doesn't work on my system with flac. I don't know why - maybe I misunderstood the manual

    I believe there are size limitations on gapless and wav, but it's probably OK for my purposes. Only some things I play need it - for instance Rachmaninov's "Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini", where it's much better gapless.

    It's taken me far too long to get my head round all this. At least some of my confusion has been caused by another plugins doing subtle things that I really didn't want to happen. ANd some of it is the sheer number of options now available. I had not, for instance, realised that the UPnP player audio capabilities settings were pretty irrelevant once one uses transcoding in the bridge, and so should be set to the best possible options, letting the transcoding in the bridge do the rest.

    And once again please accept my apologies for my rants and raves and time-wasting posts.
    LMS 8.1 on PC, Xubuntu 20.04, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. 2 Touches & EDO.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Also Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 20.04 laptop firefox/upplay or Android mobile with Squeeze-Ctrl/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  4. #2064
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippe_44 View Post
    Sorry I meant if it is ‘disabled’
    Thanks - now I understand. It wasn't disabled there, but C3PO somehow managed to disable the flc flc transcode option. I'm discussing that on the C3PO thread.
    LMS 8.1 on PC, Xubuntu 20.04, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. 2 Touches & EDO.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Also Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 20.04 laptop firefox/upplay or Android mobile with Squeeze-Ctrl/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  5. #2065
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    Thanks - now I understand. It wasn't disabled there, but C3PO somehow managed to disable the flc flc transcode option. I'm discussing that on the C3PO thread.
    In case anyone thinks I have unfairly maligned the C-3PO plugin, it turns out that the issue is in LMS, not C-3PO. For reasons no doubt buried in history, LMS does not look for FLAC transcoding rules for specific player MACs, although it does look at other rules by MAC. When C-3PO is installed it makes sure that every file conversion rule is specified of each and every MAC, rather than just generic rules, because it can change the rules for each and every individual MAC.

    Unfortunately LMS does not look for a specific FLAC to FLAC transcoding rule for the UPnP player MAC (or any other MAC, just the generic * MAC), even though C-3PO has created one, and so drops down to the FLAC to MP3 rule which does not specify 'transcode' in the name of the rule. Bother.

    Confused? You will be, after next weeks episode of SOAP. (Sorry, a deliberate mis-quote showing my age....)
    LMS 8.1 on PC, Xubuntu 20.04, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. 2 Touches & EDO.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Also Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 20.04 laptop firefox/upplay or Android mobile with Squeeze-Ctrl/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  6. #2066
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    I've added the following flow diagrams - not sure it helps

    1/ general comment son player registration & track playback from LMS point of view

    Name:  Flow #1.png
Views: 114
Size:  41.2 KB


    2/ how the bridge selects a format to send to the UPnP player

    Name:  Flow #2.png
Views: 115
Size:  56.8 KB


    3/ how the audio stream is processed

    Name:  Flow #3.png
Views: 105
Size:  38.7 KB
    Last edited by philippe_44; 2018-08-26 at 23:19.
    LMS 8.1.x on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  7. #2067
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    In case anyone thinks I have unfairly maligned the C-3PO plugin, it turns out that the issue is in LMS, not C-3PO. For reasons no doubt buried in history, LMS does not look for FLAC transcoding rules for specific player MACs, although it does look at other rules by MAC. When C-3PO is installed it makes sure that every file conversion rule is specified of each and every MAC, rather than just generic rules, because it can change the rules for each and every individual MAC.

    Unfortunately LMS does not look for a specific FLAC to FLAC transcoding rule for the UPnP player MAC (or any other MAC, just the generic * MAC), even though C-3PO has created one, and so drops down to the FLAC to MP3 rule which does not specify 'transcode' in the name of the rule. Bother.

    Confused? You will be, after next weeks episode of SOAP. (Sorry, a deliberate mis-quote showing my age....)
    Good finding - that one was not easy!
    LMS 8.1.x on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  8. #2068
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    1.2.1

    While backporting some modifications, I left a problem with flac re-encoding. Please update to 1.2.1 (true for Castbridge as well)
    LMS 8.1.x on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  9. #2069
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    I think I have now worked my thoughts on this into a workable solution for me.
    3. So I set the UPnP config for my Marantz UPnP to declare that it can do pretty much anything I want - aac, pcm, flc, mp3 at up to 24/192000 quality (the most I ever use), even though the player can't actually do some of those things
    4. I then use the new UPnP bridge transcoding to get the best out of the player, all at the same quality so that 'flow' works
    You can also add "ogg" as it's natively supported by the bridge.
    For my Marantz I think that means transcoding to wav (not raw), 24/96000, Packed Type 1, and setting 'flow' but NOT 'No Higher'. I don't miss the track details display since it's a very basic one on this player, and my controlling browser is in the same room, showing me what I am playing.

    I tried transcoding to flac, but 'flow' doesn't work on my system with flac. I don't know why - maybe I misunderstood the manual
    There was one error in flac that impacted flow badly and I did not see it because I'm manually editing my config file ... One thing for flow is that the setting of "no higher" is irrelevant as flow must use the same coding for all the tracks, so the idea of "downsample *only* above" does not work here. The sample size and rate must be set to fixed values as soon as flow is active. By default, it's 44.1/16. If you set 48000 but still tick "no higher", 48000 will be the fixed value.
    I believe there are size limitations on gapless and wav, but it's probably OK for my purposes. Only some things I play need it - for instance Rachmaninov's "Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini", where it's much better gapless.
    What limitation do you have in mind?
    It's taken me far too long to get my head round all this. At least some of my confusion has been caused by another plugins doing subtle things that I really didn't want to happen. ANd some of it is the sheer number of options now available. I had not, for instance, realised that the UPnP player audio capabilities settings were pretty irrelevant once one uses transcoding in the bridge, and so should be set to the best possible options, letting the transcoding in the bridge do the rest.

    And once again please accept my apologies for my rants and raves and time-wasting posts.
    Please don't apologize, as said before I really appreciate you take the time for these tests and I know this is very frustrating because I left a lot of errors and you don't know if this is a problem with the version or if this is a wrong setting. I have the chance to be able to discriminate these from source code and with a debugger, which makes that much less "infuriating" (although there are some other painful moments).

    And in addition, these concepts are complicated and I have not found a good way so far to communicate them.

    To some extend, the pcm mode, with raw, wav and all that is adding an extraordinary level of permutations & combinations that do not exist with flac & mp3. My opinion is that the best configuration is either the thru (through ) mode with it's uncertainties or a flac/mp3. Using pcm is probably looking for troubes and headaches (and it's very visible in the flow diagrams I've added)
    Last edited by philippe_44; 2018-08-26 at 23:20.
    LMS 8.1.x on Odroid-C4 - SqueezeAMP!, 5xRadio, 5xBoom, 2xDuet, 1xTouch, 1xSB3. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, Squeezelite on Pi, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5, RivaArena 1 & 3

  10. #2070
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippe_44 View Post
    You can also add "ogg" as it's natively supported by the bridge.

    There was one error in flac that impacted flow badly and I did not see it because I'm manually editing my config file ... One thing for flow is that the setting of "no higher" is irrelevant as flow must use the same coding for all the tracks, so the idea of "downsample *only* above" does not work here. The sample size and rate must be set to fixed values as soon as flow is active. By default, it's 44.1/16. If you set 48000 but still tick "no higher", 48000 will be the fixed value.
    I think that once you decide you need to transcode (for flow, replay gain or whatever), the upnp player abilities are almost entirely irrelevant, and you should just set a sensible codec and fixed rate for your player.

    flac and flow now works - thanks. I've now picked flac 96000, 0 compression, 24 bit for my Marantz and that seems fine.

    I have never, ever, used replay gain and so on, so haven't tested that.

    What limitation do you have in mind?
    "if the player only accept wav or aiff, the duration of the whole “session” will be limited to 4GB" - RTFM

    Please don't apologize, as said before I really appreciate you take the time for these tests and I know this is very frustrating because I left a lot of errors and you don't know if this is a problem with the version or if this is a wrong setting. I have the chance to be able to discriminate these from source code and with a debugger, which makes that much less "infuriating" (although there are some other painful moments).

    And in addition, these concepts are complicated and I have not found a good way so far to communicate them.

    To some extend, the pcm mode, with raw, wav and all that is adding an extraordinary level of permutations & combinations that do not exist with flac & mp3. My opinion is that the best configuration is either the thru (through ) mode with it's uncertainties or a flac/mp3. Using pcm is probably looking for troubes and headaches (and it's very visible in the flow diagrams I've added)
    I'll have to print off the flow charts and pour myself a glass of something strong before trying to comprehend the full scope of all this.
    LMS 8.1 on PC, Xubuntu 20.04, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. 2 Touches & EDO.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Also Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 20.04 laptop firefox/upplay or Android mobile with Squeeze-Ctrl/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

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