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  1. #21
    Senior Member pablolie's Avatar
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    > "Getting multichannel done "right" can be a bit of a challenge of course and for practical reasons, will not be for everyone including soundroom setup, WAF, increased cost, etc... I just wish it was easier without all these bits and pieces I've had to cobble together!

    well getting stereo right is hard. and some recordings kinda demand you reposition your speakers just for their sake. just with 2 speakers. can you say Keith Jarret with his piano centric recording approach? won't work for almost anything else. but if you use it with the setup that works for most other things you get a piano that's about 20ft wide.

    i can't even imagine moving around 7 speakers to cater to the whim of the recording. :-) that's all. there are absolutely no recording standards, so i think the more speakers, the more impossible it'll be to get it right. it's bad enough with a large stereo music library. we go for a compromise.
    ...pablo
    Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation) running Ubuntu 18.04 + LMS 7.9.1
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    I'm looking forward to another Roger Waters favourite - "Amused To Death" coming out in discreet multichannel
    Me too!
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  3. #23
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
    > "Getting multichannel done "right" can be a bit of a challenge of course and for practical reasons, will not be for everyone including soundroom setup, WAF, increased cost, etc... I just wish it was easier without all these bits and pieces I've had to cobble together!

    well getting stereo right is hard. and some recordings kinda demand you reposition your speakers just for their sake. just with 2 speakers. can you say Keith Jarret with his piano centric recording approach? won't work for almost anything else. but if you use it with the setup that works for most other things you get a piano that's about 20ft wide.

    i can't even imagine moving around 7 speakers to cater to the whim of the recording. :-) that's all. there are absolutely no recording standards, so i think the more speakers, the more impossible it'll be to get it right. it's bad enough with a large stereo music library. we go for a compromise.
    True, speaker position is an issue... However, I wonder if in the multichannel world, there might actually be a little more standardization. For example the ITU-R BS.775-3 specifies recommended angles for both movies and music which I've tried to emulate in my sound system (the 5.1 configuration is of course in line with THX and Dolby recommendations). Also, modern decent receivers almost universally incorporate room-EQ correction easily activated to compensate for loudness and distance differences... Better to have a proper room configuration of course but this will certainly help.

    Nothing's perfect but I must admit I'm enjoying Bryan Adams Reckless 5.1 30th Anniversary Blu-Ray audio right now... Good memories of high school, now in a surround high-res mix! (Better BTW that the nasty compressed sounding stereo remaster on the same disk - yuck!)
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphpnj View Post
    ...
    As for favorite multichannel albums I've heard one that actually uses the extra channels with any degree of artfullness: Björk's Medulla (on SACD). On Medulla any and all of the front, center or rear channels can be used as the primary point of origin for the music. Gimmicky? Yes but at least the rear channels get to do something besides play some barely audible "ambiance".
    Thanks for reminding me of Medulla. I'll have to have a listen again. I remember listening to this in my old house before the improved multichannel setup. Some of the surround/rear effects were downright freaky (whispering, heavy breathing and such). Nice bass as well.
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    Me too!
    Still no street date for that "Amused To Death" Analogue Productions 5.1 SACD it appears... Tempted to pre-order but given how long it seems to be dragging out (I thought it was supposed to come out September 2014), I really hope it will see the light of day soon!
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Imo even "ambiance" helps if done rigth with 5 speaker the stereo image can get wider deeper and higher than with 2 speakers .

    And in my case the midrange gets much better for song due the favorable position ( acoustic you know ) of my center speaker .
    Another interesting factor that also can be a factor for me is the comb filter effect interference effect you get with multiple sources. 2 sources is possibly one of the worst cases 1 speaker or many speakers have less of this effect .
    So the response can be much smoother with 3 front speakers in the room .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
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    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    True, speaker position is an issue... However, I wonder if in the multichannel world, there might actually be a little more standardization. For example the ITU-R BS.775-3 specifies recommended angles for both movies and music which I've tried to emulate in my sound system (the 5.1 configuration is of course in line with THX and Dolby recommendations). Also, modern decent receivers almost universally incorporate room-EQ correction easily activated to compensate for loudness and distance differences... Better to have a proper room configuration of course but this will certainly help.

    Nothing's perfect but I must admit I'm enjoying Bryan Adams Reckless 5.1 30th Anniversary Blu-Ray audio right now... Good memories of high school, now in a surround high-res mix! (Better BTW that the nasty compressed sounding stereo remaster on the same disk - yuck!)
    yes there are standards for multichannel audio regarding both speaker positioning and "drummroll" levels ! So for movies or possibly other multich materials there is an actuall small change that you happen to recreate the mix as the producers intended .
    That would never happen with typical stereo mixes (for example you dont know if the mix engineer listened 75dB or 130dB when mixing )
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
    Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
    iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  8. #28
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    Still no street date for that "Amused To Death" Analogue Productions 5.1 SACD it appears... Tempted to pre-order but given how long it seems to be dragging out (I thought it was supposed to come out September 2014), I really hope it will see the light of day soon!
    And it is a pity that it is going to be on SACD, making it a hassle to rip...
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  9. #29
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Imo even "ambiance" helps if done rigth with 5 speaker the stereo image can get wider deeper and higher than with 2 speakers .

    And in my case the midrange gets much better for song due the favorable position ( acoustic you know ) of my center speaker .
    Another interesting factor that also can be a factor for me is the comb filter effect interference effect you get with multiple sources. 2 sources is possibly one of the worst cases 1 speaker or many speakers have less of this effect .
    So the response can be much smoother with 3 front speakers in the room .
    Which reminds me of the 3.0 albums like the Analogue Productions' Nat King Cole SACDs and Living Stereo classical SACDs... Great sounding replicas of the way these were recorded on 3-track tapes before stereo mixdowns. The Nat King Cole vocals in the center channel sounds amazingly "present".
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    Which reminds me of the 3.0 albums like the Analogue Productions' Nat King Cole SACDs and Living Stereo classical SACDs... Great sounding replicas of the way these were recorded on 3-track tapes before stereo mixdowns. The Nat King Cole vocals in the center channel sounds amazingly "present".
    I also remember the Hafler and Ortoperspekta pseudo-3-channel systems (basically a matrix producing mono centre channel and side "difference" channels) that were great for music recorded directly using 2 mics, but failed totally with complex, mixed stuff.
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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