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  1. #11
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Multi Library support in LMS 7.9

    > Will this conflict with Erlands multi library plugin if we already have
    > that installed with 7.9?


    I don't think so. Unless you install a plugin making use of those new
    features there should be no change in behaviour at all. It's totally
    optional. Most of what I implemented was suggested by Erland (thanks!).
    I'm pretty sure he'd let me know quickly if I messed up his plugins.

    I'd rather expect him to take advantage of these changes. He's asked me
    to do them for good reason I must assume ;-).

    > Is it meant to be a replacement, or work with it.


    The changes I committed really are mostly "infrastructure": they allow a
    plugin to define custom views. They allow LMS users having such a plugin
    to get a filtered view on their music library. But (besides the demo
    plugin implementation) they don't implement any virtual library view.
    It'll be up to a plugin developer to make best use of this feature. Thus
    it's not a replacement, but it'll allow to better (and simpler)
    integrate such a plugin with LMS.

    --

    Michael

  2. #12
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Multi Library support in LMS 7.9

    >>> Will this potentially be a way to circumvent the 100K track
    >> limitation
    >>> with the Smart Mix plugin? Seems like I should be able to create a
    >>> filtered library that would contain most of the "good" stuff based on
    >>> bitrate, genre, year range, etc.

    >>
    >> Yes, that's definitely a use case I was thinking about today myself. But
    >> first things first.

    >
    > Oh, no rush for me, to be sure. Just curious. I'll just be lurking over
    > here until there's something to play with on my secondary system...


    I think the toughest part will be to provide the end user a flexible UI
    to define the virtual libraries. If you were fluent in SQL, then this
    would probably be an easy job to achieve. But to provide a good UI to
    allow for filtering by all the attributes you mention will be the
    challenge... for me and other plugin developers.

    --

    Michael

  3. #13
    Senior Member get.amped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    >>> Will this potentially be a way to circumvent the 100K track
    >> limitation
    >>> with the Smart Mix plugin? Seems like I should be able to create a
    >>> filtered library that would contain most of the "good" stuff based on
    >>> bitrate, genre, year range, etc.

    >>
    >> Yes, that's definitely a use case I was thinking about today myself. But
    >> first things first.

    >
    > Oh, no rush for me, to be sure. Just curious. I'll just be lurking over
    > here until there's something to play with on my secondary system...


    I think the toughest part will be to provide the end user a flexible UI
    to define the virtual libraries. If you were fluent in SQL, then this
    would probably be an easy job to achieve. But to provide a good UI to
    allow for filtering by all the attributes you mention will be the
    challenge... for me and other plugin developers.

    --

    Michael
    Agreed. I have no issues writing SQL (assuming I understand the schema), but that will definitely not be the case for most users.
    Home: Win7Pro(x64)[3.3Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD system, 15TB storage], LMS 7.9.0 -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic -> NAD C160 -> 2 x NAD C272 -> Quad 22L2
    Portable: FreeNAS 9.3 [HP Microserver Gen8, 10GB RAM, 16GB flash boot, 120GB SSD for LMS 7.9.0 in FreeBSD jail, 5 x 4TB WD Red HD ZFS RAIDZ1] -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic: XLR out -> Soundmaster Diamond 12-2 mixing board -> P.A.

  4. #14
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Multi Library support in LMS 7.9

    > One thing I don't understand and which is currently between me and a
    > good iPeng support for this: how is the usage model for this supposed to
    > look like?


    The most important part causing confusion seems to be what that change
    provides: as Erland suggested in the other thread there's no real UI to
    this yet (except for the LibraryDemo implementation which I mostly did
    to verify my changes). It's an infrastructure to allow filtered views on
    a library.

    The title might be slightly misleading. I could have called it "Virtual
    Library" or "Filtered Library View" instead.

    BUT it's up to a plugin developer to a.) create the filter and b.)
    define how it's being used.

    If the plugin dev does care about b.) then he can provide his own menu
    item, without changing the behaviour of the existing menus. Imagine eg.
    an Audiobook plugin which registered a custom menu to specifically
    browse your audiobooks only by Author, Title etc. This mode already
    should work with iPeng etc. the very same way as existing extensions
    work (eg. SmartMix).

    In the simplest case the dev doesn't care about b.) though. In this case
    LMS would provide a "Select Library View" menu item in My Music. When
    the user selects one of those views, then a player pref is set with a
    library_id. S::M::BrowseLibrary will use that library_id to provide the
    existing My Music browse modes, but limited to that particular virtual
    library.

    This case will cause problems with iPeng et al. if they're not using
    S::M::BrowseLibrary. They'll have to take care of requesting data with
    the library_id on their own. Adding the library_id to the player status
    might be one solution to let you know about it.

    > If you think purely player-centric as in SqueezePlay I can kind of get
    > it but the Squeezebox system, after all, is also a multiroom system so
    > you need some way to handle that.


    This change is mostly about accessing your library. If you have eg.
    synchronized players and you select a filtered view on player one, then
    player two would still provide the full browsing, but would play
    whatever you chose on player one. Or you could play anything on player
    two by controlling it through player one. It's really only (mostly) the
    view on your collection while browsing it which changes.

    > How is this supposed to look like? Is this like different servers all
    > with their respective players?


    No. It's a filtered view on your one server.

    > How do I know which player belongs to which virtual server?


    All players are still connected to the same player. But potentially
    using a different view on your players.

    > Is there a way to learn about these assignments?


    Limited at this point: you can always use the player's pref query to get
    the library_id value. But other than that I'm planning to provide CLI
    support to get the list of libraries available, and as you suggested,
    add the library_id to the player status.

    > How do I switch players between them?


    You don't have to switch players. You have to tell LMS by what
    library_id you want your artists/albums etc. filtered. eg.

    artists 0 200 library_id:abcde

    > What about MySB?


    Has nothing to do with this.

    > At least in iPeng, all main menus are NOT player-specific (the caching
    > effort for people with lots of players and/or large libraries would
    > probably be prohibitive) so to get this usable we need some kind of user
    > model of how this whole thing is supposed to work.


    I don't know how plugin developers/users are going to use this feature.
    Eg. how many different libraries there will be for a user. I would not
    cache by player, but by library. Most users probably will never use more
    than one library at any time. They'll probably use custom menu items
    (Audiobooks), but not fully filtered views on their library. And if they
    did, they probably use two or three (eg. Kids music, lossless library,
    no DSD on Classic etc.).

    As a 3rd party developer I consider using this for SmartMix: users can
    define what part of their music should be mixed. But they'd probably
    never use this library view to browse their music.

    --

    Michael

  5. #15
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Multi Library support in LMS 7.9

    > Agreed. I have no issues writing SQL (assuming I understand the schema),
    > but that will definitely not be the case for most users.


    Get some sqlite client and start playing around with library.db: the
    library filtering is based on the tracks table. Genres will be tricky,
    as the IDs can change during scans. But its feasible with an additional
    relation to the genres table. Once you've got a good query, please feel
    free to send it to me and I'll be playing with it.

    Please note that the query is run at scan time. Thus even if the query
    does take a few seconds to complete that shouldn't hurt usability in
    daily use.

    --

    Michael

  6. #16
    Senior Member JJZolx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    The LibraryDemo plugin is disabled by default. If you want to test these new features you'll have to to enable it and re-run a scan.
    Are you sure it's disabled by default? It's active on my server and I never enabled it.

    Why the need for a rescan?

    It's not clear to me how the filtering is supposed to work. Using the web UI, I browse into 'Albums with outros and other longish tracks', select an album and I see only the long tracks. But if I press the album play or queue buttons at the top, it queues all tracks from the album. This seems to be dependent on the library view chosen. In this case it's still set at 'All Library'. I see that if set to 'Longish tracks only' then it works more like I would expect.

    I don't quite see the purpose of the library view. Explain how this setting might be used.

  7. #17
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    I think the toughest part will be to provide the end user a flexible UI
    to define the virtual libraries. If you were fluent in SQL, then this
    would probably be an easy job to achieve. But to provide a good UI to
    allow for filtering by all the attributes you mention will be the
    challenge... for me and other plugin developers.
    My plan is to make a plugin that allows similar configuration abilities as my current Multi Library plugin, this way people won't have to learn SQL.
    Just have to find the time, but I think it should be reasonably simple as I have most of the code already in Multi Library plugin, it just have to be cleaned-up a bit and adapted to work with the new API.

    I think I'm going to focus on library definition to start with and let people use your additional browse modes plugin to add browse menus (assuming it's going to contain support for creating menus restricted to a virtual library)

    Some of my other plugins are likely also going to be updated, but I consider something based on my current Multi Library plugin to be the highest priority as this makes it possible for people to create flexible libraries that can be used with other plugins.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    Developer of many plugins/applets

  8. #18
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Multi Library support in LMS 7.9

    >> The LibraryDemo plugin is disabled by default. If you want to test these
    >> new features you'll have to to enable it and re-run a scan.

    >
    > Are you sure it's disabled by default? It's active on my server and I
    > never enabled it.
    >
    > Why the need for a rescan?


    Yep, I changed my mind last minute. In order to get this tested I
    enabled it by default.

    > It's not clear to me how the filtering is supposed to work. Using the
    > web UI, I browse into 'Albums with outros and other longish tracks',
    > select an album and I see only the long tracks. But if I press the album
    > play or queue buttons at the top, it queues all tracks from the album.


    Then there's a bug. Thanks for the heads up!

    > I don't quite see the purpose of the library view. Explain how this
    > setting might be used.


    I don't want kids music in my office. Therefore I'll use the "no kids
    music" view as the default.

    --

    Michael

  9. #19
    Senior Member JJZolx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > I don't quite see the purpose of the library view. Explain how this
    > setting might be used.

    I don't want kids music in my office. Therefore I'll use the "no kids
    music" view as the default.
    I see. So the library view would then be applied to the normal browse modes, correct? And 'Albums' would then be the sames 'Albums with outros and other longish tracks'? If that's the case, then I'd expect the other specialize menu items (browse modes) to not appear once a different view is selected.

  10. #20
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Multi Library support in LMS 7.9

    >>> I don't quite see the purpose of the library view. Explain how this
    >>> setting might be used.

    >>
    >> I don't want kids music in my office. Therefore I'll use the "no kids
    >> music" view as the default.

    >
    > I see. So the library view would then be applied to the normal browse
    > modes, correct?


    Correct.


    > And 'Albums' would then be the sames 'Albums with outros
    > and other longish tracks'? If that's the case, then I'd expect the other
    > specialize menu items (browse modes) to not appear once a different view
    > is selected.


    That's totally up to the plugin developer. The LibraryDemo plugin is a
    demo. It shows _some_ of the possibilities without making much sense.

    --

    Michael

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