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  1. #1
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    rebuffering problem

    This afternoon I started getting frequent rebuffing on my Touch; this unit is connected via ethernet directly to my main router and there was not any other significant network activity. I tried stopping and starting LMS (I am running 7.8) but the problem persisted. I'm listening to ALAC files; this has not been a problem before.

    When I have had rebuffering issues in the past it has been temporary, and always with online services over WiFi. I have never had issues playing local music.

    I'd be grateful for any diagnostic or troubleshooting tips...

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjfreitag View Post
    This afternoon I started getting frequent rebuffing on my Touch; this unit is connected via ethernet directly to my main router and there was not any other significant network activity. I tried stopping and starting LMS (I am running 7.8) but the problem persisted. I'm listening to ALAC files; this has not been a problem before.

    When I have had rebuffering issues in the past it has been temporary, and always with online services over WiFi. I have never had issues playing local music.

    I'd be grateful for any diagnostic or troubleshooting tips...
    Try doing a complete "Clear Library and Rescan Everything". It's worth doing every so often when re-buffering starts occurring. After the time when the clocks change you can often get a bit of rebuffering activity with LMS, so do the re-scan and see if things improve.
    Squeezebox Classic:2; Duet: 1; Boom:1; Touch:1.
    Server: Logitech Media Server Version: 8.0.0 - 1591685001 on pCP 6.1.0; (backup:Win 10 Pro 64 bit) iPeng, iPeng for Ipad, Orange Squeeze, Squeezepad.

  3. #3
    I'm also starting to experience rebuffering issues (for the first time in years) so I'd be interested to hear whether a rescan solved it. My last full rescan is not that long ago (couple of weeks) so I doubt that that will change things. But I'll try anyway.

    I'd also like to understand how the scan (i.e. the state of the library) is connected to the buffer issue. I find it difficult to see how one can influence the other since the library is relevant when selecting a track, but not when playing it, right? But I'm curious to learn all about whatever might cause rebuffering on a machine with loads of free CPU capacity...
    Server: LMS 7.9.2 on an Ubuntu 18.04 virtual machine
    Players: Radio, Touch, Duet (Receiver & Controller), 2 Booms
    Remote control apps: SqueezePad (iOS), Squeezecontroller (Android)
    Important plugins: Trackstat, Spicefly Sugarcube, Lazy Search Music, Custom Browse, Multi Library, Material Skin

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaug View Post
    I'm also starting to experience rebuffering issues (for the first time in years) so I'd be interested to hear whether a rescan solved it. My last full rescan is not that long ago (couple of weeks) so I doubt that that will change things. But I'll try anyway.

    I'd also like to understand how the scan (i.e. the state of the library) is connected to the buffer issue. I find it difficult to see how one can influence the other since the library is relevant when selecting a track, but not when playing it, right? But I'm curious to learn all about whatever might cause rebuffering on a machine with loads of free CPU capacity...
    agree. rebuffering is most likely related to interference in wifi (new neighbor with same channel, or new microwave, etc.) or a potential problem in ethernet cabling (bad cable, bad connection at router, etc.). Also, when getting rebuffering, you might see if if is related to a synched player. I was getting some rebuffering on my transporter, and realized it was caused by my RADIO (wifi connected) which happened to be synched to the Transporter at the time.
    Home: VBA2.5 4TB or rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 7.9.3>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 7.9.3>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (ethernet except Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kesey View Post
    Try doing a complete "Clear Library and Rescan Everything". It's worth doing every so often when re-buffering starts occurring. After the time when the clocks change you can often get a bit of rebuffering activity with LMS, so do the re-scan and see if things improve.
    yes, on *windows* machines after a change to or from daylight savings time one needs to do a clear and rescan (or at least they used to....maybe newer versions of 7.8 or 7.9 resolve this).
    Home: VBA2.5 4TB or rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 7.9.3>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 7.9.3>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (ethernet except Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify

  6. #6
    In my case I've quite clearly identified wifi interference as the source of the trouble. More specifically, its my new Xeo wireless speakers that are causing the trouble. Can clearly see the dip in network quality when running a network test at 1000kbps (Settings -> Advanced -> Networking) when turning the speakers on and off. Great! Now I've great sounding speakers and no more speaker cables all over the place, and but now I have to solve the interference problem. I already tried switching the frequency that the speakers use as well as that of the wifi. I also increased the wifi's bandwith from 20 Mhz to 40 Mhz but all to no avail. So I guess the only way to avoid the interferences is to either connect the SB Touch with an ethernet cable or move my wifi to the 5 GHz band (the speakers are on 2.4 GHz) by installing a dual band access point (since my router doesn't do 5 GHz). As if I had nothing else to do...
    Server: LMS 7.9.2 on an Ubuntu 18.04 virtual machine
    Players: Radio, Touch, Duet (Receiver & Controller), 2 Booms
    Remote control apps: SqueezePad (iOS), Squeezecontroller (Android)
    Important plugins: Trackstat, Spicefly Sugarcube, Lazy Search Music, Custom Browse, Multi Library, Material Skin

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaug View Post
    In my case I've quite clearly identified wifi interference as the source of the trouble. More specifically, its my new Xeo wireless speakers that are causing the trouble. Can clearly see the dip in network quality when running a network test at 1000kbps (Settings -> Advanced -> Networking) when turning the speakers on and off. Great! Now I've great sounding speakers and no more speaker cables all over the place, and but now I have to solve the interference problem. I already tried switching the frequency that the speakers use as well as that of the wifi. I also increased the wifi's bandwith from 20 Mhz to 40 Mhz but all to no avail. So I guess the only way to avoid the interferences is to either connect the SB Touch with an ethernet cable or move my wifi to the 5 GHz band (the speakers are on 2.4 GHz) by installing a dual band access point (since my router doesn't do 5 GHz). As if I had nothing else to do...
    you might try "ethernet over powerline" adapters for connecting the squeezebox back to your router. That has worked for me and many others. Then the wireless speakers won't interfere. Also note that using the 40Mhz bandwidth can sometimes create *more* problems. More cross channel interference, etc. If we and all our close neighbors switch to 40Mhh bandwidth, an already bad problem (for those with close neighbors...apartment buildings, etc.) will get much worse.
    Home: VBA2.5 4TB or rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 7.9.3>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
    Cottage: rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 7.9.3>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (ethernet except Radio WIFI)
    Office: Win10(64)>foobar2000
    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite)
    Controllers: iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
    Files: Ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify

  8. #8
    Senior Member get.amped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaug View Post
    In my case I've quite clearly identified wifi interference as the source of the trouble. More specifically, its my new Xeo wireless speakers that are causing the trouble. Can clearly see the dip in network quality when running a network test at 1000kbps (Settings -> Advanced -> Networking) when turning the speakers on and off. Great! Now I've great sounding speakers and no more speaker cables all over the place, and but now I have to solve the interference problem. I already tried switching the frequency that the speakers use as well as that of the wifi. I also increased the wifi's bandwith from 20 Mhz to 40 Mhz but all to no avail. So I guess the only way to avoid the interferences is to either connect the SB Touch with an ethernet cable or move my wifi to the 5 GHz band (the speakers are on 2.4 GHz) by installing a dual band access point (since my router doesn't do 5 GHz). As if I had nothing else to do...
    Your SB Touch only does wireless-G anyway. You will likely not see any improvement with a dual band router/access point unless you connect your SBT to a 5GHz access point acting as a wireless bridge to another 5GHz access point connected to your router. Might work but starts to become an expensive (and complicated) way to replace a 100mb wired ethernet cable.

    Edit: on the other hand you can afford those speakers so the cost of the WAPs is probably just noise...
    Home: Win7Pro(x64)[3.3Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD system, 15TB storage], LMS 7.9.0 -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic -> NAD C160 -> 2 x NAD C272 -> Quad 22L2
    Portable: FreeNAS 9.3 [HP Microserver Gen8, 10GB RAM, 16GB flash boot, 120GB SSD for LMS 7.9.0 in FreeBSD jail, 5 x 4TB WD Red HD ZFS RAIDZ1] -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic: XLR out -> Soundmaster Diamond 12-2 mixing board -> P.A.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by get.amped View Post
    Your SB Touch only does wireless-G anyway. You will likely not see any improvement with a dual band router/access point unless you connect your SBT to a 5GHz access point acting as a wireless bridge to another 5GHz access point connected to your router. Might work but starts to become an expensive (and complicated) way to replace a 100mb wired ethernet cable.
    Yes, I also realized that the 5GHz idea was nonsense, since none of the Squeezeboxes supports that. Ethernet over powerline could be option. Thanks for bringing that up, garym. What I did to day, as a start, was move the SB Touch a couple of metres so that I could connect it to the router via (real) Ethernet, at least temporarily. Turns out that the rebuffering issue is gone. Probably because it SB Touch is now closer to the Router (i.e. Wifi access point). But it could also be that the speakers chose a better frequency, for some reason (perhaps because the Xeo transmitter is now also closer to the access point?).

    For anybody experiencing more serious issues with this kind of setup, I'd like to point you to this addendum to the Xeo manual. It explains how you can set your speakers to use a fixed frequency. Unfortunately, Dynaudio does not tell us exactly what frequencies the speakers are capable of using and how to set them. So if anyone figured that one out, please post.

    Quote Originally Posted by get.amped View Post
    Edit: on the other hand you can afford those speakers so the cost of the WAPs is probably just noise...
    I have one unused WAP anyway but it's either 2.4 or 5 GHz, but before I buy another WAP I guess those Powerline adapters are the better option, if I ever need them. No, I would never buy those speakers at their recommended selling price and not even at the current sale price. I was lucky to get them used for less than half of their original selling price.

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    Also note that using the 40Mhz bandwidth can sometimes create *more* problems. More cross channel interference, etc. If we and all our close neighbors switch to 40Mhh bandwidth, an already bad problem (for those with close neighbors...apartment buildings, etc.) will get much worse.
    Good point. I just followed the advice provided here. I wonder, though, if setting your router to 40 MHz alone already creates more interference or whether you actually need to fully use it, which is probably only the case at certain critical moments. But since my rebuffering issue seems solved, I'll switch it back, since there are at least 20 wifis in my area.
    Last edited by chaug; 2014-10-06 at 13:11. Reason: subscribe to thread
    Server: LMS 7.9.2 on an Ubuntu 18.04 virtual machine
    Players: Radio, Touch, Duet (Receiver & Controller), 2 Booms
    Remote control apps: SqueezePad (iOS), Squeezecontroller (Android)
    Important plugins: Trackstat, Spicefly Sugarcube, Lazy Search Music, Custom Browse, Multi Library, Material Skin

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