no sound when using battery

[M8G]

I recently purchased second hand unit of squeezbox.
Its a UE version and running 7.7.3-r1667

when my squeezbox radio is connected directly with the power adapter then everything works fine. I get sound and music plays as normal.
But the strange thing happens when I unplug the power adapter and start using it with battery power then there's no sound, I have checked all settings, and it's not muted, tried full volume. Even booted up with battery, wif connects and everything is normal beside there's no sound coming from the box when using the battery.

I have been running it on battery for hours and looks to be in good condition.

Has anyone faced the same issue or have a better solution to the problem?

[Redrum]

I have never seen this, but I'll take a stab at it, a couple guesses, for what it's worth.

First, do you get sound out of the headphone jack while on battery?

Here's what I am wondering (again, a guess). Perhaps the battery is weak. The batteries might measure ok in open circuit, but when they are asked to supply current, they cannot, or, if your do, the voltage drops lower than fresh cells. Maybe it can power the processor, UI, etc (lower current draw) but it cannot supply the audio amplifier in addition (additional current draw) or the audio amp has a "turn on threshold" (voltage) of sorts that is not met because the supply droops.

My thought is Maybe the low level signal output of the headphone is prior in the signal path.

Again, I know nothing of the design of the radio, just thinking "what can happen".

If you have another battery, or are willing to get another one, it would be worth a try. Even if, say you got one from amazon, made no difference, and you returned it.

Another thought (again, no experience) is if you use an ethernet connection, does this use less power than wifi? Others might know.

Jim

[slartibartfast]

I have never seen this, but I'll take a stab at it, a couple guesses, for what it's worth.

First, do you get sound out of the headphone jack while on battery?

Here's what I am wondering (again, a guess). Perhaps the battery is weak. The batteries might measure ok in open circuit, but when they are asked to supply current, they cannot, or, if your do, the voltage drops lower than fresh cells. Maybe it can power the processor, UI, etc (lower current draw) but it cannot supply the audio amplifier in addition (additional current draw) or the audio amp has a "turn on threshold" (voltage) of sorts that is not met because the supply droops.

My thought is Maybe the low level signal output of the headphone is prior in the signal path.

Again, I know nothing of the design of the radio, just thinking "what can happen".

If you have another battery, or are willing to get another one, it would be worth a try. Even if, say you got one from amazon, made no difference, and you returned it.

Another thought (again, no experience) is if you use an ethernet connection, does this use less power than wifi? Others might know.

Jim

If the battery voltage was low it would turn off and tell you to charge it. I've never seen this either.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Redrum]

If the battery voltage was low it would turn off and tell you to charge it. I've never seen this either.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

it was a stab in the dark. I didn't say low, I said weak, as in the internal resistance of the cell or cells is high, causing a limit of the current, or a drop in voltage when current is demanded. My wild guess is if the audio amplifier was starved.

Of course I don't know of the power management hardware or firmware in the battery, does it detect "weak"?

I once bought radio used that (on adaptor) powered up, but when you went to play it died (rebooted). I replaced the power supply and it was fine. I surmised the power supply was capable of open circuit voltage, but when current was drawn it failed to deliver.

my comment on "does it play through headphones" was more a curiosity. If he said yes, I still wouldn't have any more to offer

Jim

[michel]

You could try to reinstall firmware and then do a factory reset.

[M8G]

I have never seen this, but I'll take a stab at it, a couple guesses, for what it's worth.

First, do you get sound out of the headphone jack while on battery?

Here's what I am wondering (again, a guess). Perhaps the battery is weak. The batteries might measure ok in open circuit, but when they are asked to supply current, they cannot, or, if your do, the voltage drops lower than fresh cells. Maybe it can power the processor, UI, etc (lower current draw) but it cannot supply the audio amplifier in addition (additional current draw) or the audio amp has a "turn on threshold" (voltage) of sorts that is not met because the supply droops.

My thought is Maybe the low level signal output of the headphone is prior in the signal path.

Again, I know nothing of the design of the radio, just thinking "what can happen".

If you have another battery, or are willing to get another one, it would be worth a try. Even if, say you got one from amazon, made no difference, and you returned it.

Another thought (again, no experience) is if you use an ethernet connection, does this use less power than wifi? Others might know.

Jim

hello Jim
thanks for ur great evaluation. I guess u are right with ur points.
I have checked to run it with battery and sound coming from the headphone jack. So there's nothing wrong with the out-put sound from there. I guess its related to old battery voltage. I'll grab a new battery pack and see if the speaker comes to live again.

[Redrum]

I'll grab a new battery pack and see if the speaker comes to live again.

let us know how it goes!

Jim

[M8G]

let us know how it goes!

Jim

ok, i have tried with another battery pack, and it's the same issue. No sound when running the radio from battery power.
Can it be any faulty switch inside the board or bug in the firmware?

[Redrum]

ok, i have tried with another battery pack, and it's the same issue. No sound when running the radio from battery power.
Can it be any faulty switch inside the board or bug in the firmware?

sorry to hear..just to clarify (and perhaps attract someone with another idea):

Your UE radio works fine on adaptor. But on battery there is no sound from the speaker, but there IS sound through the headphone jack, correct?

Again, I don't know the design of the radio, no schematics are available, but anything I might suspect is eliminated because everything works while on line power (e.g. faulty headphone jack switch)

So, maybe someone else has an idea, but until then, here's a couple things I might try...

1) If you are running as a UE radio, try switching to a sb radio (firmware) - it's in settings->advanced <somewhere, don't have a UE radio available>..
2) I assume you did a factory reset.
3) There is community software for the radio and touch that you could try. It all started as a "bass missing" problem https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...ss-amp-problem
and then developed into new firmware https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...ight=community
4) In the two threads above, maybe you can look through them and see if there are any similarities. If you see something, maybe quote reply in that thread with your issue.

I am really sorry I couldn't help more, I'm just a happy sb user, not one of the developers. Maybe we can attract their attention.

Jim

[M8G]

sorry to hear..just to clarify (and perhaps attract someone with another idea):

Your UE radio works fine on adaptor. But on battery there is no sound from the speaker, but there IS sound through the headphone jack, correct?

Again, I don't know the design of the radio, no schematics are available, but anything I might suspect is eliminated because everything works while on line power (e.g. faulty headphone jack switch)

So, maybe someone else has an idea, but until then, here's a couple things I might try...

1) If you are running as a UE radio, try switching to a sb radio (firmware) - it's in settings->advanced <somewhere, don't have a UE radio available>..
2) I assume you did a factory reset.
3) There is community software for the radio and touch that you could try. It all started as a "bass missing" problem https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...ss-amp-problem
and then developed into new firmware https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...ight=community
4) In the two threads above, maybe you can look through them and see if there are any similarities. If you see something, maybe quote reply in that thread with your issue.

I am really sorry I couldn't help more, I'm just a happy sb user, not one of the developers. Maybe we can attract their attention.

Jim

yes its correct, no sound on battery.

I have checked all ur suggested links and tried provker and Alsa amp with no result when using the battery.
Have also tried to update to 7.8.0 version. Didn't manage to make a firmware update. Do u have better guide? and which files should be used for 7.3.3 version?

i dont know if someone can explain why i have by-pass connection to my unit? I have connected the battery directly and doesn't make any differences if u by-pass connect or not.

[Redrum]

yes its correct, no sound on battery.

I have checked all ur suggested links and tried provker and Alsa amp with no result when using the battery.
Have also tried to update to 7.8.0 version. Didn't manage to make a firmware update. Do u have better guide? and which files should be used for 7.3.3 version?

i dont know if someone can explain why i have by-pass connection to my unit? I have connected the battery directly and doesn't make any differences if u by-pass connect or not.

I don't have a UE radio, I did have one that I set up for a friend, so I had minimal exposure to it. Not sure of their firmware versioning is different (it must be, right)? I am running 7.7.3 r16676. I had suggested trying to change your UE radio to a sb (you can change back easily).

I have never seen what you refer to as "bypass", so I went and looked:


The sb radios that I have just have a blank door. You plug in a battery and it works disconnected from power. plug in power (battery present or not) and it works off power. I wonder what it's purpose is? I know that installing the battery and then pluging in is not "easy", perhaps its a user friendly thing?

I am sorry I can't help more. Why not try changing it to a sb radio? Its somewhere in settings->advanced...

Jim

[KeBul]

i dont know if someone can explain why i have by-pass connection to my unit?

It's because UE Smart Radios were shipped with a battery - the additional circuitry allows for the battery to be "disconnected" in storage/transit prior to first use by a pull out plastic tab that sits between contacts in the battery door. (Credit Michael H who pointed this out in another thread)

SB Radios were not shipped with batteries so didn't have this.

Kev

Edit: Found it in the manual:



Edit2:

Re: your actual problem - I while back purchased a secondhand UE Smart Radio that had no sound from the speakers, but the headphone socket did work. I cannot remember if that was on mains or battery, it could have been either (or more likely both). I took it back and the seller replaced it with another unit for me, but then they contacted me a couple of days later asking if I wanted to buy the now working original one... Apparently it was dirty contacts on the headphone socket, their repair man sprayed switch cleaner into the socket and worked a headphone plug in and out of the socket and the speakers started working when the headphones socket wasn't being used.
Logic tells me that mains power or battery power shouldn't affect this as a fault, but possibly worth a try - at the most it will cost you a small can of switch cleaner if you haven't got any.

[M8G]

It's because UE Smart Radios were shipped with a battery - the additional circuitry allows for the battery to be "disconnected" in storage/transit prior to first use by a pull out plastic tab that sits between contacts in the battery door. (Credit Michael H who pointed this out in another thread)

SB Radios were not shipped with batteries so didn't have this.

Kev

Edit: Found it in the manual:

[ATTACH]36436[/ATTACH]

Edit2:

Re: your actual problem - I while back purchased a secondhand UE Smart Radio that had no sound from the speakers, but the headphone socket did work. I cannot remember if that was on mains or battery, it could have been either (or more likely both). I took it back and the seller replaced it with another unit for me, but then they contacted me a couple of days later asking if I wanted to buy the now working original one... Apparently, it was dirty contacts on the headphone socket, their repair man sprayed switch cleaner into the socket and worked a headphone plug in and out of the socket and the speakers started working when the headphones socket wasn't being used.
Logic tells me that mains power or battery power shouldn't affect this as a fault, but possibly worth a try - at the most it will cost you a small can of switch cleaner if you haven't got any.

I have tried both SB and UE versions with the same issue. So I guess it somewhere a hardware problem. If it's the headphone socket I dont know but I have sprayed it with no positive result yet. Its quite annoying and I am considering opening up the unit and seeing if I can force the unit to "speak"er up.

[Redrum]

@Kev - accommodating the pull tab, that makes sense. Instead of modifying the case mold and inside electronics, UE just decided to modify/make a new battery door mold and add connectors and wires. Must have been cheaper overall.

To the original issue - I grabbed a radio with a battery and tried it next to one that is on line power. With both (while playing) as you just start to inset the headphone plug (1/4 of the way in), the sound cuts out. That tells me they must be using a switched stereo phone jack:



If the switch was dirty/stuck/defective you would expect it to behave the same way for both speaker and headphone, right?

One thing I thought of, is the headphone output is stereo, and the speaker output (assume) is mono, so the stereo signal must be present at the headphone but mixed to mono on it's way to the speaker. Not sure that contributes anything.

@M8G - if you were to open the case up, and you didn't mind, I am sure you could bypass the headphone jack (either make it so headphones do not shut off speakers, or headphones just don't work.

Too bad we don't have schematics. I know that @JoeMuc2009 fixes boom's, maybe you could send him a PM to see if he has any thoughts

Jim

[Redrum]

I had one other thought, just something to try -

we know that the headphone jack has a switch that detects the presence of a headphone plug. Plug in -> turn speaker off/switch audio to headphone. If this doesn't work, cleaning or repairing might solve this switching.

But in M8G's case, this switching works while on line power, but does not work on battery power, so it can't be just this switch.

What if there is a similar switch on the power plug? What if there is a switch that senses the lines plug that causes a different behavior, which might explain what is being observed?

M8G - maybe try having the radio line power plugged in, but unplugged from the wall. This might (should?) cause the radio to play on battery power but thinking it's on line power? My thinking is, if it plays through the speaker, but then you unplug the disconnected line plug from the radio and it stops playing out the speakers, maybe it's a switch on this plug.

I know it's a real stretch, but maybe this might tell you something. If it seems hopeful, maybe clean the power receptacle with deoxit or similar.

Jim