Dead Controller?

[BartS]

For years I've had my dead Duet controller just laying waiting to be thrown away, and then I stumbled on this thread. So I took a chance, cut the old PSU away, spliced a USB cable on, and connected a USB charger, and now it seems to work again! It shows what is playing, and it charges! I am so happy

Thanks guys

Same here! The dead controller was in the box to bring to the recycling point (some day... ), but then I came across this thread.
Output from the powersupply was 5V, but this collapsed to 4V as soon as the controller was connected. Luckily the box of bits had the exact same power supply from an obsolete Linksys VoIP adapter.
The cradle can be taken apart: I ripped off the rubber, but you could cut two holes ath the right place, giving access to two torx-screws.. The little PCB is held on with the small black screw.

Now I hope I can revive the receiver, which restarts every few minutes. Maybe that also needs a new power supply.

[pbroughton]

Thank you all

Yes, as stated above, this is such a great forum. Thanks to dpotts (above) for the lead to a replacement power supply. I am thinking that the nomenclature, PSM11R-050, is the key to getting the correct power supply.

In my case, the ‘replacement’ power supply had a barrel connector. After snipping it off, I checked that the center (interior) connector was the Red (+) wire. The controller’s cradle wires are White and a ‘shield’ wire, like on a coaxial cable. I spliced the cradle White to the new Red and the cradle ‘shield’ wire to the new Black. It works!

Thanks for the info and the pictures.

[cathcam]

another dead PSU

Today is squeeebox fix day, started with wlanpoke on a radio which seems to be working, on to the controller.

I have two Duets, like many, I bought a spare from ebay.

I have the same problem as everyone. Tried the backup controller(which has the original Logitech battery) in to the primary cradle, same problem. Tried the backup cradle and seems to be charging, booted fine!

So I have to fix the backup cradle. As a life long software guy, I have a "I don't understand question" aka dumb question.

The Controller cradle power supply can be plugged in either way up in a US 110v power socket, effectively reversing the polarity. Q. Why does the polarity in the wires matter?

[Redrum]

Today is squeeebox fix day, started with wlanpoke on a radio which seems to be working, on to the controller.

I have two Duets, like many, I bought a spare from ebay.

I have the same problem as everyone. Tried the backup controller(which has the original Logitech battery) in to the primary cradle, same problem. Tried the backup cradle and seems to be charging, booted fine!

So I have to fix the backup cradle. As a life long software guy, I have a "I don't understand question" aka dumb question.

The Controller cradle power supply can be plugged in either way up in a US 110v power socket, effectively reversing the polarity. Q. Why does the polarity in the wires matter?

Hi, because at the wall p!ug the power is AC, single phase, voltages swings from negative to positive. The power supply (the block) rectified the voltage to all positive, then filters the voltage "humps" to create a dc voltage with as little of ripple (smoothed humps) as possible. The resultant dc has a polarity, where the incoming ac does not.

Your sb is looking for a +Vcc and a Vdd (ground). This is why the polarity matters

Ho ho ho...

Jim

[AxxelH]

I too wanted to thank everyone for this thread, I appear to have rescued my charging cradle as well. Rather than a splice I actually desoldered the original charger and replaced all the way through to the small circuit board. I'll glue the strain relief block onto the new cord once I'm sure I've got everything working.

One question, does anyone care to speculate whether the max amperage rating matters? I only had a 5v 1a wall wart at hand (vs 5v 2a original). For a normal USB charging situation I wouldn't worry about this, all the lower amperage would mean is a slower charge, but not sure that applies here. In practice the duet controller is charging now, but I can always order a PSM11R-050 if it actually matters.

[Redrum]

One question, does anyone care to speculate whether the max amperage rating matters? I only had a 5v 1a wall wart at hand (vs 5v 2a original). For a normal USB charging situation I wouldn't worry about this, all the lower amperage would mean is a slower charge, but not sure that applies here. In practice the duet controller is charging now, but I can always order a PSM11R-050 if it actually matters.

This is a good question, but I think that only an inspection of the schematic and charging IC would yield the answers, and they aren't available (to my knowledge).

I worked as an EE at a company that would use OEM power supplies in our products (Infant Products, like swings, baby monitors, etc). Thinking practically, a company would not be including a power supply 2x the size needed for no reason. In general you don't want to exceed 80% capacity, so in this case, the design could require up to 1.6A. But, thinking that the supplies from the OEM's would be standard 1A, 2A would lead me to think that it's more than 80% of the 1A. To have a supplier build a custom (say 1.5A) would be more expensive than just using a 2A.

I am thinking that the (designed) draw is over 0.8A and probably less than 1.6A. But you can measure either by opening and disconnecting, or, if you use a device like a Kill-a-watt and measure VA, that would give you the DC power being drawn (when you divide VA by 5v).

You could also look to see if the voltage is drooping under load, or if the power brick is getting abnormally warm.

One final thought - we think of it as a charging cradle, but is it possible that it draws more power when the controller is being used in the cradle?


Sorry for all this random information You could probably just but the right supply

Jim

[AxxelH]

Thinking practically, a company would not be including a power supply 2x the size needed for no reason. In general you don't want to exceed 80% capacity, so in this case, the design could require up to 1.6A. But, thinking that the supplies from the OEM's would be standard 1A, 2A would lead me to think that it's more than 80% of the 1A. To have a supplier build a custom (say 1.5A) would be more expensive than just using a 2A.

This is an excellent point, thanks for making it. As much as I am concerned that I won't be as successful with the soldering iron a second time (I'm a software guy), this was enough to convince me to eBay the "right" supply. Nothing about the design of the cradle (hardwired wall wart? really?) leads me to believe that Logitech was really thinking about flexibility or servicing, and you're absolutely right it was probably built to a very specific design and price.

Nothing got hot (or even warm really) when charging at 1a, but I can believe that may not be indicative of max load. Better safe, etc.

Thanks for the comment, now I get to see if I can replicate my earlier success with the right part.

[richtoy]

Fix the controller PSU

It is actually quite easy to repair the controller's PSU.
The problem is the two electrolytic capacitors that smooth the 5v.
To split the PSU use a syringe to put a tiny (and I mean tiny) amount of petrol around the glued joint.
Wait 1 minute and apply the same amount again.
Wait one minute and you should be able to carefully prise the shell apart with a spudger.

Replace the 2 1000uF 10v capacitors (they are likely bulging), if you can buy decent quality 105C capacitors.

Use superglue to glue the case back together and clamp it whist the glue sets properly.

I have repaired 4 like this and all are still working.

I have an issue with one of my handsets. A fully charged battery will power the handset but slowly discharge. When you put the controller in the cradle it shows changing for 10-20 seconds but then stops charging. I presume the charging circuit in the controller is failing. Anyone seen this fault?

[Redrum]

.
I have an issue with one of my handsets. A fully charged battery will power the handset but slowly discharge. When you put the controller in the cradle it shows changing for 10-20 seconds but then stops charging. I presume the charging circuit in the controller is failing. Anyone seen this fault?

I have not seen this specifically, but I have had to replace the controller battery because it would not hold a charge. Perhaps the charging circuit shuts down because the sense circuit does not like what it sees.

They are under $15 USD here in the states: https://www.ebay.com/itm/27456759090...Bk9SR_aHl-3bYA

Jim

[tonyptony]

Apologies for yet again reviving this thread, but I have the same problem with my charging cradle. Will a plain old 5VDC, 2A supply work, or does it need specifically to be a “charging” type power supply, that would presumably cut off once the Controller battery is fully charged?

[dpotts]

Apologies for yet again reviving this thread, but I have the same problem with my charging cradle. Will a plain old 5VDC, 2A supply work, or does it need specifically to be a “charging” type power supply, that would presumably cut off once the Controller battery is fully charged?

As far as I know, an ordinary power supply will work. If the original PSU had such a cut off when the battery is fully charged, that's news to me. However, I don't have anything like the expertise of some of the others commenting here. The model number of the PSU is given earlier in the thread. You might do a search on it and see what you find that way.

-David

[w3wilkes]

I know there's a thread on these bords where a user cut the cord a soldered in a USB A plug and now they just use a regular phone charger wall wart and it works fine.

[Redrum]

As far as I know, an ordinary power supply will work. If the original PSU had such a cut off when the battery is fully charged, that's news to me.

I agree. Any "smart charging circuit" would be on the PCB in the cradle**. See the picture of this open in a previous post on the thread. I can't make out the # of the IC, but this might be the charge controller, or perhaps it's on the back of the PCB. Anyhow, I just spliced a new one in. If you are just going to splice, check and record the polarity (assuming your current cradle still produces voltage, just not enough current). I am not sure if we posted the polarity, but I can check mine and let you know if you like.

** most of these wall supplies/charges are commodities purchased from suppliers (XYZ) by the product manufacturer (Logitech) to be integrated into products. There is allot of design, tooling, regulatory testing and certification ($$ and time) that goes into each design. So if a manufacturer were to ask for a custom wall brick design (say "smart charging"). The lead time and cost goes way up. Its just not practical so the manufacturer would typically integrate "special" features into their portion of the design (cradle). I worked in consumer products (infant monitors, etc) and often we could get a bigger supply (say 1A vs 500ma) cheaper just because the manufacturer was producing many more for other customers.

Jim

[tonyptony]

Thanks everyone! I have a spare supply of just the right size. Just did the transplant and it works fine!