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Foobaar vs MediaMonkey

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    Foobaar vs MediaMonkey

    Been irritated for some time (many years, actually) that some replay gain tags in flac files are inaccurate. I have always used MediaMonkey to set the gain levels.
    I installed Foobar of other reasons but tried to retag some very problematic tracks/albums and voila! Fixed. I decided to retag my entire library of 18 000 tracks and now the levels are spot on. Kudos to Foobar for this.
    Last edited by Zombie; 2022-10-14, 20:26.

    #2
    I don't use Replaygain and so I clean them from my files. It never worked well for me.
    I've found many MP3 audio files which show Gain values in Mediamonkey, but You can't clean them. Even if You reset them, they reappear.
    Foobar does a good job of cleaning them with Fix VBR header or Rebuild Mp3 stream.
    I've also found that those files have duplicate tags in the end of the file with MP3val.
    I also opened them in Notepad and You can see the duplicate tags in the end of the file.
    MP3val finds garbage at the end of the file.

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      #3
      Originally posted by MAAC View Post
      I don't use Replaygain and so I clean them from my files. It never worked well for me.
      I've found many MP3 audio files which show Gain values in Mediamonkey, but You can't clean them. Even if You reset them, they reappear.
      Foobar does a good job of cleaning them with Fix VBR header or Rebuild Mp3 stream.
      I've also found that those files have duplicate tags in the end of the file with MP3val.
      I also opened them in Notepad and You can see the duplicate tags in the end of the file.
      MP3val finds garbage at the end of the file.
      If you don't like replaygain you can just turn it off in settings, no need to remove the tags. In what way did it not work well for you. I can see that it wouldn't work well if some tracks have replaygain tags and others don't but it works well for me.

      Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
      Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
      Bedroom: Radio
      Bathroom: Radio

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        #4
        Originally posted by slartibartfast View Post
        If you don't like replaygain you can just turn it off in settings, no need to remove the tags. In what way did it not work well for you. I can see that it wouldn't work well if some tracks have replaygain tags and others don't but it works well for me.

        Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
        Totally agree. As 99% of my listening is random tracks, I couldn't do without "Smart Gain". No replay gain tags is just pants.
        Server - LMS 8.4.0 RPi4B 4GB/NanoSound ONE case/pCP 8.1.0 - 75K library, playlists & LMS cache on Sata SSD (ntfs)

        Lounge - DAC32 - AudioEngine B2
        Office - RPi 3B+/HiFiBerry DAC HAT/RPi screen - Edifier D12
        Bedroom - Echo Show 8

        Spares - 1xSB Touch, 1xSB3, 4xRPi, AVI DM5 speakers

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          #5
          @slarti, @ktp,

          Can you elaborate a bit? I haven't used an gain settings, nor have I added any gain tags to my library. It's on my "things I need to do list"...for years. . I could use some perspective/advice.

          I'd like to get to it this winter. I listen to internet radio maybe 70% of the time, but when listening to my library it's almost always album start to finish. My biggest gain complaints is the volume differences switching between albums. Also, the gain difference between some internet radio stations with each other, and with my library, but I realize I might not be able to do anything about that.

          I also have used media monkey for years and found allot of it clunky, but it does the job, and batch convert FLAC ->mp3 for a thumb drive for my vehicles works great.

          Jim

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Redrum View Post
            @slarti, @ktp,

            Can you elaborate a bit? I haven't used an gain settings, nor have I added any gain tags to my library. It's on my "things I need to do list"...for years. . I could use some perspective/advice.

            I'd like to get to it this winter. I listen to internet radio maybe 70% of the time, but when listening to my library it's almost always album start to finish. My biggest gain complaints is the volume differences switching between albums. Also, the gain difference between some internet radio stations with each other, and with my library, but I realize I might not be able to do anything about that.

            I also have used media monkey for years and found allot of it clunky, but it does the job, and batch convert FLAC ->mp3 for a thumb drive for my vehicles works great.

            Jim
            I bit the bullet a few years back and applied replaygain to all my files. So glad I did as it makes a massive difference when not listening in album mode. Smart gain is truly brilliant.

            I applied the tags using Foobar2000 in 3 or 4 chunks. I already had a full backup but would have taken one first if not. I also made sure my daily backup didn’t run while I was running the Foobar2000 process.
            Jim
            https://jukeradio.double6.net


            VB2.4 storage QNAP TS419p (NFS)
            Living Room Joggler & Pi4/Khadas -> Onkyo TXNR686 -> Celestion F20s
            Office Joggler & Pi3 -> Denon RCD N8 -> Celestion F10s
            Dining Room SB Radio
            Bedroom (Bedside) Pi Zero+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
            Bedroom (TV) & Bathroom SB Touch ->Denon AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s + Kef ceiling speakers
            Guest Room Joggler > Topping Amp -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes

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              #7
              In what way did it not work well for you.
              I did apply replaygain one time ago to several tracks for test and couldn't notice a difference, but I presume it also depends on the player.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MAAC View Post
                I did apply replaygain one time ago to several tracks for test and couldn't notice a difference, but I presume it also depends on the player.
                Yes, your player has to be capable of using RG tags. LMS and Squeezebox players are capable.
                Home: Pi4B-8GB/pCP8.2.x/4TB>LMS 8.3.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
                Cottage: rPi4B-4GB/pCP8.2.x/4TB>LMS 8.3.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI)
                Office: Win11(64)>foobar2000
                The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>hifiberry Dac+Pro (LMS & Squeezelite)
                Controllers: iPhone14Pro & iPadAir5 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
                Files: Ripping: dBpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; Streaming: Spotify

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                  #9
                  Could not deal with life without Replaygain. It's definitely not perfect and some tracks can seem to fool the process, but overall it makes a large library of tracks way, way more homogeneous in general volume levels.

                  That said, Replaygain is really many things, in practise - there's the old, traditional RG, and there's newer methods/implementations. So that might be part of your issue. I believe many tools are now using R128 rather than former implementations....and obviously, mixing methods of RG, which will be processing things differently and aiming for different levels, is going to cause issues.

                  So probably some testing as to which method you find best, and then using one consistent tool to process your entire library is the way to go.

                  (Personally I use a beets in a docker for all music processing of incoming things, and that uses gstreamer which uses traditional RG I believe).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by bossanova808 View Post
                    Could not deal with life without Replaygain. It's definitely not perfect and some tracks can seem to fool the process, but overall it makes a large library of tracks way, way more homogeneous in general volume levels.

                    That said, Replaygain is really many things, in practise - there's the old, traditional RG, and there's newer methods/implementations. So that might be part of your issue. I believe many tools are now using R128 rather than former implementations....and obviously, mixing methods of RG, which will be processing things differently and aiming for different levels, is going to cause issues.

                    So probably some testing as to which method you find best, and then using one consistent tool to process your entire library is the way to go.

                    (Personally I use a beets in a docker for all music processing of incoming things, and that uses gstreamer which uses traditional RG I believe).
                    I have used R128, with -18 setting for a few years. This matches the target volume of the older RG algorithm. Accordingly, I didn't have to go back and redo the many thousands of files I added RG to prior to the R128 method. foobar2000 uses the -18 setting by default. dbpoweramp allows the user to set this.
                    Home: Pi4B-8GB/pCP8.2.x/4TB>LMS 8.3.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
                    Cottage: rPi4B-4GB/pCP8.2.x/4TB>LMS 8.3.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI)
                    Office: Win11(64)>foobar2000
                    The Wild: rPi3B+/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>hifiberry Dac+Pro (LMS & Squeezelite)
                    Controllers: iPhone14Pro & iPadAir5 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64)
                    Files: Ripping: dBpoweramp > FLAC; Post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; Streaming: Spotify

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