Tidal and replaygain

[slartibartfast]

> Ok, thanks! I probably made a mistake somewhere ...
> Just to clarify again (for me): the different levels can't be caused by
> the value for internet streams being set to e.g. -7?

your observation was correct. I guess the difference between what
slartibartfast saw and what you see is caused by the "gain for internet
streams". In the current implementation with my suggested change hacked
in that is what would be applied, not the track's actual value. Please
update to the next build once it's out (might take another hour or so).

Is it just me or are we back in the situation where replaygain is always applied regardless of the global setting?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[slartibartfast]

> Ok, thanks! I probably made a mistake somewhere ...
> Just to clarify again (for me): the different levels can't be caused by
> the value for internet streams being set to e.g. -7?

your observation was correct. I guess the difference between what
slartibartfast saw and what you see is caused by the "gain for internet
streams". In the current implementation with my suggested change hacked
in that is what would be applied, not the track's actual value. Please
update to the next build once it's out (might take another hour or so).

I guess if I had tried my normal test tracks from the Wall I would have found it was far too quiet [emoji2357]

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[bluedogs]

The remote stream default is only used when replaygain data is not available in the stream. I tried changing that value for Tidal and now it makes no difference. Before Michael added the replaygain feature it did make a difference [emoji2].
The John Lennon is still quieter though. Did you try one of the louder songs from the same album?

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Sorry, read too late ... no, I didn't compare other songs, but for me the fact that the I. Pop song is barely louder than the quiet Lennon song is proof enough that replaygain is active ...

[bluedogs]

Remember we are talking about album gain not track gain so a quiet track on an album will never be the same volume as a loud track.

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Yes, you're right ... but again: if I play Lennon and I. Pop directly after each other, they are practically the same loudness (With activated normalization). Is it the same for you?

[slartibartfast]

Ok, thanks! I probably made a mistake somewhere ...
Just to clarify again (for me): the different levels can't be caused by the value for internet streams being set to e.g. -7?

The remote stream default is only used when replaygain data is not available in the stream. I tried changing that value for Tidal and now it makes no difference. Before Michael added the replaygain feature it did make a difference [emoji2].
The John Lennon is still quieter though. Did you try one of the louder songs from the same album?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[mherger]

Tidal and replaygain

> Ok, thanks! I probably made a mistake somewhere ...
> Just to clarify again (for me): the different levels can't be caused by
> the value for internet streams being set to e.g. -7?

your observation was correct. I guess the difference between what
slartibartfast saw and what you see is caused by the "gain for internet
streams". In the current implementation with my suggested change hacked
in that is what would be applied, not the track's actual value. Please
update to the next build once it's out (might take another hour or so).

[slartibartfast]

Yes, exactly ... could you maybe listen to the two Tidal files? With active normalization Iggy Pop should sound almost 'quiet' against John Lennon - at least both files should be similar in volume ...

Remember we are talking about album gain not track gain so a quiet track on an album will never be the same volume as a loud track.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[bluedogs]

Here is Iggy Pop with and without replaygain.

Ok, thanks! I probably made a mistake somewhere ...
Just to clarify again (for me): the different levels can't be caused by the value for internet streams being set to e.g. -7?

[slartibartfast]

Yes, exactly ... could you maybe listen to the two Tidal files? With active normalization Iggy Pop should sound almost 'quiet' against John Lennon - at least both files should be similar in volume ...

Here is Iggy Pop with and without replaygain.

[mherger]

Tidal and replaygain

> https://tidal.com/browse/track/4489969
> https://tidal.com/browse/track/1304594

Thanks, that was of great help! It's all a little more complicated than
I thought (though the changes required aren't). New builds are in the
pipeline.

[slartibartfast]

Yes, exactly ... could you maybe listen to the two Tidal files? With active normalization Iggy Pop should sound almost 'quiet' against John Lennon - at least both files should be similar in volume ...

This is a recording in Audacity of Boomtown Rats - She's So Modern without and with replaygain.

[bluedogs]

Are you saying that even with Replaygain enabled you don't hear the difference after the change? That wasn't my experience, I heard the difference but the log didn't report that replaygain was being used.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Yes, exactly ... could you maybe listen to the two Tidal files? With active normalization Iggy Pop should sound almost 'quiet' against John Lennon - at least both files should be similar in volume ...

[slartibartfast]

I have renamed trackGain to trackGainXX ... however, that definitely disabled normalization on Tidal.
I always compare the following two files because they couldn't be more different:

https://tidal.com/browse/track/4489969

https://tidal.com/browse/track/1304594

Are you saying that even with Replaygain enabled you don't hear the difference after the change? That wasn't my experience, I heard the difference but the log didn't report that replaygain was being used.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[mherger]

Tidal and replaygain

> Not really. It works but the server log does not report the fact that
> replaygain is being applied even when it is enabled. Before the change
> the server log always reported that replaygain was used.

I'm only interested in the audible effect of the change. The logging is
something I can add or remove at will, and it has nothing to do with the
audio output :-).

FWIW: the logging came from that method you renamed. As it's no longer
available under its expected name, it's no longer called by LMS. I've
learned that that method was used to override the replay gain setting -
which you experienced and confirmed as unexpected. By disabling the
override LMS would read the gain value from a track's metadata like with
any other track. Which should give the expected behaviour.

If you can confirm that you now get normalized levels with gain enabled
in LMS, and "standard" volume without it, I can make the code change.

[bluedogs]

> You didn't see my comment. I did that (well debug) and replaygain is
> mentioned in the log even when it should be disabled.

I'm sorry, yes, didn't see your comment before I posted.

Anybody willing and able to edit a source file?

In Slim/Plugin/WiMP/ProtocolHandler.pm, around line 449 there's a
function "trackGain". Rename it to "trackGainXX" and restart LMS. Then
please test again, with and without replaygain enabled.

I have renamed trackGain to trackGainXX ... however, that definitely disabled normalization on Tidal.
I always compare the following two files because they couldn't be more different:

https://tidal.com/browse/track/4489969

https://tidal.com/browse/track/1304594