Please read: software players & mysqueezebox.com

[Mnyb]

If the day comes that 3rd-party players are blocked from mysqueezebox.com ... how about an in-between method that checks if this user (or perhaps IP address) does have a real hardware player connected and in that case allows the others from same person/IP.

That's easy enough your hardware players are registered at mysqueezebox.com

[GoldenEye]

Please read: software players & mysqueezebox.com

I don't like what I read in this thread as my whole music ecosystem is based on LMS. I am using one Logitech Duet receiver and three squeezelite instances.

What I don't understand is why the 3rd party providers should have a problem with non Logitech players. In my case, di.fm and spotify get a monthly fee allowing me to stream their content. So they are paid for their service.

If the assumption that the 3rd party providers have nothing to complain is correct, then it is only Logitech having a problem with too much load on their servers produced by non Logitech devices, which I can understand. But in this case, it is s bit unfortunate that a big company as they are cannot find more inventive solutions than banning devices. Why not create a subscription model for accessing mysqueezebox.com?


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[pippin]

I don't like what I read in this thread as my whole music ecosystem is based on LMS. I am using one Logitech Duet receiver and three squeezelite instances.

What Indon't understand is why the 3rd party providers should have a problem with non Logitech players. In my case, di.fm and spotify get a monthly fee allowing me to stream their content. So they are paid for their service.

If the assumption that the 3rd party providers have nothing to complain is correct, then it is only Logitech having a problem with too much load on their servers produced by non Logitech devices, which I can understand. But in this case, it is s bit unfortunate that a big company as they are cannot find more inventive solutions than banning devices. Why not create a subscription model for accessing mysqueezebox.com?


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How much would you be prepared to pay under such a model?

[GoldenEye]

Please read: software players & mysqueezebox.com

Well... For the content, I pay a fee of 5 USD (di.fm) and 12 CHF (spotify) per month. The fee would need to be lower than the one for the content, IMO. So I would probably be willing to pay 2-3 CHF per device per month in exchange for a reliable and comfortable content provision through LMS. The di.fm and spotify integrations are good examples of a comfortable access.


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[tom1502]

any further advice for me or should i end the LMS experiment?
Thank you in advance!

[mherger]

Please read: software players &mysqueezebox.com

> any further advice for me or should i end the LMS experiment?

Don't know, really. If there was a generic issue I'd expect to see more
complaints. Plus I'm pretty sure I reverted all filtering I did apply
previously.

Please add debugging for network.squeezenetwork and let your machine run
for 24h+. Then check whether LMS is even talking to mysb.com. You could
probably add "--debug network.squeezenetwork" to the startup options to
get the startup communication, too.

--

Michael

[kipeta]

> any further advice for me or should i end the LMS experiment?

Don't know, really. If there was a generic issue I'd expect to see more
complaints. Plus I'm pretty sure I reverted all filtering I did apply
previously.

Please add debugging for network.squeezenetwork and let your machine run
for 24h+. Then check whether LMS is even talking to mysb.com. You could
probably add "--debug network.squeezenetwork" to the startup options to
get the startup communication, too.

--

Michael

I have a strong feeling that the latest LMS versions filter the registration of the software players into mysb.com and if the mysb.com account does not contain any players, this will prevent "My Apps" to appear.

I tested this with the latest git version (fresh installation) and an "empty" account. No "My Apps". Then I reverted to older LMS version and the player got registered into mysb.com. But still no "My Apps", not even after restart. Next I upgraded to the latest git version again, restarted (couple of times and installed SHOUTcast on mysb.com) and voilà, "My Apps" appeared.

[kipeta]

continuation for previous test with the latest git version...

I deleted the player from mysb.com (no players at all). After a while (couple of restarts) "My Apps" was gone again and player didn't got registered to mysb.com.

Edit: I still could use "Favorites" from mysb.com

[mherger]

Please read: software players &mysqueezebox.com

> I have a strong feeling that the latest LMS versions filter the
> registration of the software players into mysb.com and if the mysb.com
> account does not contain any players, this will prevent "My Apps" to
> appear.

Oh... I did revert the mysb.com side changes, but not this one:

https://github.com/Logitech/slimserver/commit/68c4f55c74bf7bc100ead11a1a9e6cae2adcf004

Could you try to revert the clientid check and see whether this was the
culprit?

As you can see from the old code, there always was the intention to
filter out those clients. The condition just never got updated...

--

Michael

[kipeta]

> I have a strong feeling that the latest LMS versions filter the
> registration of the software players into mysb.com and if the mysb.com
> account does not contain any players, this will prevent "My Apps" to
> appear.

Oh... I did revert the mysb.com side changes, but not this one:

https://github.com/Logitech/slimserver/commit/68c4f55c74bf7bc100ead11a1a9e6cae2adcf004

Could you try to revert the clientid check and see whether this was the
culprit?

As you can see from the old code, there always was the intention to
filter out those clients. The condition just never got updated...

--

Michael

Reverting the check fixed the problem. Although it first seemed not to because I had to do couple of restarts and/or wait for a while. Thanks.

[tom1502]

just installed the latest update and now the player appeared and i can use TIDAL again! Great stuff, thank you!

[mherger]

Just a little follow-up posting on the latest findings (thanks to user poltroon!) on the topic of this thread.

We recently discovered that a lot of our traffic and the vast majority of the web requests were caused by some LMS instances sending an insane amount of requests. Some single systems hit our servers with more than 2Mio. hits within 24h. Some "only" did like 20 requests per second for a few hours. So I decided to implement hit rate limiting on the load-balancers, rejecting the worst offenders.

User poltroon discovered those 503 errors in his server.log file. He was kind enough to investigate the issue on his end. What he figured out was that the hammering was caused by two instances of squeezelite running on the same machine, configured to report the same MAC address. This somehow triggered the query loop in LMS. Once he shut down one instance things went back to normal.

So I went back to the log files and database. And sure enough: all of the top offenders (those sending several 100k requests per day) are using software players. Many of them no real Squeezebox at all.

Now I'm not saying using SW players is evil. BUT they're much more prone to issues, as we have less control over them. And as a consequence of this higher error rate we do see above-average cost for systems which don't pay for the service...

Just one number: database queries per second instantly dropped by about 40-50% after I enabled the hit rate limiting. Those probably two to three dozen installations running a broken configuration caused us to install additional database servers in the past. And that costs real money.

This random sample shows another issue:



(if you recognize your setup, please check your configuration: it triggered about 720k requests yesterday :-))

I doubt this user has three players in the kitchen (Kueche) and two in the living room (Wohnzimmer). These are simply multiple setups which were used over time. Software players are cheap. You install and remove them whenever you feel like it. Alas, the data stays in the database and must be processed whenever LMS requests the players list. And there are users with hundreds of players. Two of those requests hammering us are player status and pref sync queries. With an average of 50 prefs per player stored in the database you can imagine that having a request sent 20x per second for every single player can hit us hard.

Ok, back to work. And please check your configurations. Thanks!

[DJanGo]

Now I'm not saying using SW players is evil. BUT

tbh - when these missconfigured devices (screenshot 99% rpi setups) are causing logitech to shut down the doors - they are evil.

@ michael makes me worse (thinking about your answer for my "debian update feature request") that i might be the only one who uses -nomysqb on a i368 deb system....

Whats the benefit to use mysqb on a software device?
Radiostreaming??? (i can do this even without mysqb integration)

[mherger]

Whats the benefit to use mysqb on a software device?

See how some of the complaints started when I locked out new software player registrations for a few days...

[drmatt]

Probably a dumb question but what do I get from using mysb on my lms setup at home?