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    #31
    Originally posted by RobbH View Post
    What are the chances that someone from JB Radio is reading this forum and took action after reading the complaints? (Vanishingly slim, I suspect.)
    Ha judging from my last post probably not. I wonder if it is worth contacting them. I did see a post in the Roon Forum where someone said the sound quality was much worse when the station returned in April. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/the...-thanks/156956
    Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
    Bedroom: Radio
    Bathroom: Radio

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      #32
      Originally posted by slartibartfast View Post
      Well this is really odd. They finally played a track I have in my collection, Led Zeppelin - Thank You. The top track is from JB radio Left and Right. The bottom is from my CD. I normalised both waveforms to 0dB peak. They have done something very nasty indeed to it. I even checked remastered versions from Spotify to see if there were any loud remasters on there but no, this is all down to JB Radio. Incredible is one word for it.
      Something doesn't make sense. Did you do the ear test? I assume you can playback both recordings.

      How about your signal path(s) to the recorder? squeezelite playback settings? Replay Gain settings in your file? When you say "CD" do you mean ripped file in your sb music library?

      <as he grasps for straws..>

      I'll try to find some time to play with it myself...it's interesting indeed.

      Jim

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        #33
        Originally posted by Redrum View Post
        Something doesn't make sense. Did you do the ear test? I assume you can playback both recordings.

        How about your signal path(s) to the recorder? squeezelite playback settings? Replay Gain settings in your file? When you say "CD" do you mean ripped file in your sb music library?

        <as he grasps for straws..>

        I'll try to find some time to play with it myself...it's interesting indeed.

        Jim
        Replaygain is turned off for this Squeezeplay player. Even if it wasn't turned off normalising the tracks to 0dB would remove any effect. CD was shorthand for ripped CD. I don't suppose many tracks have such large volume changes as "Thank You" [emoji2]

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        Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
        Bedroom: Radio
        Bathroom: Radio

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          #34
          Here is another example "A Seed Was Sown" by Luka Bloom. This is the ending and the Spotify version (bottom) has a slow fade whereas the JB Radio version doesn't
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            #35
            Originally posted by slartibartfast View Post
            Here is another example "A Seed Was Sown" by Luka Bloom. This is the ending and the Spotify version (bottom) has a slow fade whereas the JB Radio version doesn't
            Unfortunately, I think the dynamic compression levels you're seeing would be considered perfectly acceptable, if a bit conservative, by most over-the-air broadcasters. Even though streamers don't have to worry about an intrusive analog noise floor, some may choose to fight in the same loudness wars as the OTA stations. The variation in compression you've seen is odd, though.
            Usually running latest beta LMS nightly on Raspberry Pi OS with virtual players (Squeezelite and Airplay bridge). Occasionally using SB Radio, Boom or Classic.

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              #36
              Originally posted by RobbH View Post
              Unfortunately, I think the dynamic compression levels you're seeing would be considered perfectly acceptable, if a bit conservative, by most over-the-air broadcasters. Even though streamers don't have to worry about an intrusive analog noise floor, some may choose to fight in the same loudness wars as the OTA stations. The variation in compression you've seen is odd, though.
              From the comments on the Roon forum I get the impression they probably weren't using this compression during their first incarnation. It probably sounds fine in the car. What is the point of providing 320kbps and FLAC streams if the final audio sounds totally different to the originaI. I sent them a message on Facebook Messenger asking about compression. I don"t expect an answer though, that seems to be the way social media works. Users whether companies or "celebrities" are quite happy to make statements when they feel like it but don't take any notice of any feedback. Although Johanna Konta eventually congratulated Emma Raducanu presumably because a lot of posts on her Twitter suggested it was bad form not to have even mentioned her performances before the final [emoji2]

              Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
              Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
              Bedroom: Radio
              Bathroom: Radio

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                #37
                Originally posted by Paul Webster View Post
                That is the magic of UTF8 and JSON encoding.
                Basically - it works when everyone behaves well.

                I found that the flac stream stopped just after an hour of playing.
                Could have been a local networking problem ... but if it happens again just after an hour then I suspect they are limiting things to prevent people using up bandwidth while not really listening.
                Well Paul it's still running this morning (over-night) and the metadata is still working flawlessly. Thanks again

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by slartibartfast View Post
                  From the comments on the Roon forum I get the impression they probably weren't using this compression during their first incarnation. It probably sounds fine in the car. What is the point of providing 320kbps and FLAC streams if the final audio sounds totally different to the originaI. I sent them a message on Facebook Messenger asking about compression. I don"t expect an answer though, that seems to be the way social media works. Users whether companies or "celebrities" are quite happy to make statements when they feel like it but don't take any notice of any feedback. Although Johanna Konta eventually congratulated Emma Raducanu presumably because a lot of posts on her Twitter suggested it was bad form not to have even mentioned her performances before the final [emoji2]

                  Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                  I don't mean to sound like I am continually defending JB2, but to my ears, it sounds no different now than in the old incarnation (which was one of my "go to" for 10 years at least). Except for isome rockers sounding a bit "irritating" and times like I mentioned. I was also aware of the Roon forums comments on them from the past. I felt they were appreciative of sound quality and one of the earier efforts to provide lossless stream (earlier than RP if think).

                  Your point on what is the sense of 320kbps and FLAC if they are going to alter (for what reason?) the signal is exactly spot on. People that are looking for lossless/high bitrate are only interested in the integrity of the content. So none of this makes much sense to me, especially considering several songs appeared unaltered.

                  @slarti - what do your ears tell you? Can you listen to both recordings and say "yup, I hear it"?

                  I was listening to some King Crimson and thought of songs like "moonchild" or the beginning of Larks Tongue. Not something that you have playing as background music, but you sit and listen, and probably turn it way up. Like RP, JB's playlist is very diverse, and I would not be surprised to hear something like moonchild or similar (Old Shawn Phillips maybe). I still wonder if they don't have something that makes some adaptive gain/compression manipulation.

                  You mentioned contacting them (JB?) On facebook Messenger. They do have a "contact us" on their website, although you may not hear back as well. I contacted them a few days back thanking them for coming alive again. I have not heard back. I do have another idea though, @slarti, I'll send you a PM.

                  I'll keep listening. I prefer the content of JB to RP. I find they can really get on a roll, especially in the late afternoon EST (they broadcast from Toronto, CA - EST). Like I said before, I find (to me) that RP has lost their way a bit. The seem to be playing allot of "new" and "world" music which is fine, but I am hearing alot of songs (Like Billie Eilish, Arcade Fire, War On Drugs, etc) often, maybe a couple times a day or every day and I thought that wasn't the point

                  ok, there's my rant .

                  Jim

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Redrum View Post
                    I don't mean to sound like I am continually defending JB2, but to my ears, it sounds no different now than in the old incarnation (which was one of my "go to" for 10 years at least). Except for isome rockers sounding a bit "irritating" and times like I mentioned. I was also aware of the Roon forums comments on them from the past. I felt they were appreciative of sound quality and one of the earier efforts to provide lossless stream (earlier than RP if think).

                    Your point on what is the sense of 320kbps and FLAC if they are going to alter (for what reason?) the signal is exactly spot on. People that are looking for lossless/high bitrate are only interested in the integrity of the content. So none of this makes much sense to me, especially considering several songs appeared unaltered.

                    @slarti - what do your ears tell you? Can you listen to both recordings and say "yup, I hear it"?

                    I was listening to some King Crimson and thought of songs like "moonchild" or the beginning of Larks Tongue. Not something that you have playing as background music, but you sit and listen, and probably turn it way up. Like RP, JB's playlist is very diverse, and I would not be surprised to hear something like moonchild or similar (Old Shawn Phillips maybe). I still wonder if they don't have something that makes some adaptive gain/compression manipulation.

                    You mentioned contacting them (JB?) On facebook Messenger. They do have a "contact us" on their website, although you may not hear back as well. I contacted them a few days back thanking them for coming alive again. I have not heard back. I do have another idea though, @slarti, I'll send you a PM.

                    I'll keep listening. I prefer the content of JB to RP. I find they can really get on a roll, especially in the late afternoon EST (they broadcast from Toronto, CA - EST). Like I said before, I find (to me) that RP has lost their way a bit. The seem to be playing allot of "new" and "world" music which is fine, but I am hearing alot of songs (Like Billie Eilish, Arcade Fire, War On Drugs, etc) often, maybe a couple times a day or every day and I thought that wasn't the point

                    ok, there's my rant .

                    Jim
                    I guess if you just listened to JB Radio and were not bothered about it being markedly different to the originals it could sound OK. That slow fade out in the track I mentioned earlier actually remains a constant volume until the very end when it fades out quickly. That is easily audible. It is a shame as the music they play is a good mix.

                    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                    Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
                    Bedroom: Radio
                    Bathroom: Radio

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by slartibartfast View Post
                      I guess if you just listened to JB Radio and were not bothered about it being markedly different to the originals it could sound OK. That slow fade out in the track I mentioned earlier actually remains a constant volume until the very end when it fades out quickly. That is easily audible. It is a shame as the music they play is a good mix.

                      Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                      Ok, something is not right. I am not hearing what you are hearing. I may not recognize compression (not on all songs as you have noted), but I would know a quick fade out (on every song?), and I have not. I'll listen again today.

                      I would hate to have anyone be steered from this station by this conversation, rather people should listen with their own ears. I "defend" because it has always (along with RP 320 and FLAC) been a couple of the better sound quality stations in this work predominated with 128kbps stations. Regardless of whatever is happening or not happening, I still prefer it to 128kbps. I also "defend" because I have some "stubborn" in me (me stubborn?, nah...)

                      I should say at this point I don't use a streaming service (yet). Perhaps these would make internet stationed passé, and this defense moot. My Library and the flac and high bitrate stations are my quality sources.

                      I wonder if something is happening as the signal crosses the ocean . Now you have me inspired to dig into this a little more next week. I'll record the signal as it only has to travel from Toronto to Northern New York. It will have to cross Lake Ontario though

                      If you can give me some clues on how to record off of squeezelite (never tried it) that would be great.

                      Fun conversation....

                      Jim

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Redrum View Post
                        Ok, something is not right. I am not hearing what you are hearing. I may not recognize compression (not on all songs as you have noted), but I would know a quick fade out (on every song?), and I have not. I'll listen again today.

                        I would hate to have anyone be steered from this station by this conversation, rather people should listen with their own ears. I "defend" because it has always (along with RP 320 and FLAC) been a couple of the better sound quality stations in this work predominated with 128kbps stations. Regardless of whatever is happening or not happening, I still prefer it to 128kbps. I also "defend" because I have some "stubborn" in me (me stubborn?, nah...)

                        I should say at this point I don't use a streaming service (yet). Perhaps these would make internet stationed passé, and this defense moot. My Library and the flac and high bitrate stations are my quality sources.

                        I wonder if something is happening as the signal crosses the ocean . Now you have me inspired to dig into this a little more next week. I'll record the signal as it only has to travel from Toronto to Northern New York. It will have to cross Lake Ontario though

                        If you can give me some clues on how to record off of squeezelite (never tried it) that would be great.

                        Fun conversation....

                        Jim
                        I think I replied to your PM but it doesn't show up in my sent messages.
                        To record I just installed Squeezeplay from

                        Play JB Radio from Squeezeplay and record using Audacity or similar selecting Stereo Mix as the Recording Device.

                        Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                        Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
                        Bedroom: Radio
                        Bathroom: Radio

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                          #42
                          They are playing Yes - And You And I at the moment, that should be a good test [emoji2]

                          Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                          Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
                          Bedroom: Radio
                          Bathroom: Radio

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Redrum View Post
                            Ok, something is not right. I am not hearing what you are hearing. I may not recognize compression (not on all songs as you have noted), but I would know a quick fade out (on every song?), and I have not. I'll listen again today.

                            I would hate to have anyone be steered from this station by this conversation, rather people should listen with their own ears. I "defend" because it has always (along with RP 320 and FLAC) been a couple of the better sound quality stations in this work predominated with 128kbps stations. Regardless of whatever is happening or not happening, I still prefer it to 128kbps. I also "defend" because I have some "stubborn" in me (me stubborn?, nah...)

                            I should say at this point I don't use a streaming service (yet). Perhaps these would make internet stationed passé, and this defense moot. My Library and the flac and high bitrate stations are my quality sources.

                            I wonder if something is happening as the signal crosses the ocean . Now you have me inspired to dig into this a little more next week. I'll record the signal as it only has to travel from Toronto to Northern New York. It will have to cross Lake Ontario though

                            If you can give me some clues on how to record off of squeezelite (never tried it) that would be great.

                            Fun conversation....

                            Jim
                            I sent "And You And I" via Dropbox. Dropbox make things very confusing. It is very hard to know of a file has been sent so you might get two of one of the files [emoji2]

                            Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                            Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
                            Bedroom: Radio
                            Bathroom: Radio

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by slartibartfast View Post
                              I sent "And You And I" via Dropbox.
                              received, all set!

                              Jim

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Redrum View Post
                                received, all set!

                                Jim
                                Did you receive my reply to your PM regarding Audacity?

                                Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
                                Living Room: Touch or Squeezelite (Pi3B) > Topping E30 > Audiolab 8000A > Monitor Audio S5 + BK200-XLS DF
                                Bedroom: Radio
                                Bathroom: Radio

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