Allo KALI Reclocker & Raspberry Pi DACs running as Slave or Master?

[badboygolf16v]

I'm starting this thread as a request for information from JackOfAll. I thought it might be useful to have this information on a separate thread that others could easily find. I suspect there may be a reasonable amount of interest in the KALI Reclocker.

Allo have released an interesting product called the KALI Reclocker that will provide a low jitter I2S input to Raspberry Pi DACs. KALI will only work with DACs that operate in Slave mode.

I believe I'm correct to say that some DACs that work in Slave mode are the Mamboberry LS and the Allo Piano DACs. DACS that work in Master mode are the HiFiBerry and IQaudIO DACs - therefore they do not work with the KALI.

Now I would like to give the KALI a try, but unfortunately I only have an IQaudIO DAC+ and a HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro.

I have seen posts on diyAudio that indicate there are patch sets that may allow these DACs that run in Master mode by default to run in Slave mode.

I wondered if this was correct? And if so, are these kernel or driver patches? Would that guarantee these DACs would work with the KALI, or would testing be required for confirmation.

Thanks in advance Clive.

[JackOfAll]

I'm starting this thread as a request for information from JackOfAll.

It's a little more complicated than just master/slave. There are other gotchas. eg. The Kali does not pass-through the 3.3V rail, so if you try using a DAC HAT that needs the 3.3V as well as 5V, that's a problem too. I'm a little uncomfortable wading-in on this subject as I am not the manufacturer behind the Kali product, and feel uncomfortable talking about which other 3rd party products will work with it. I suspect Allo will say, "we have our own DAC", or something to that effect. ie. you want guaranteed compatibility, you buy one of their bundles which includes Kali re-clocker and Piano DAC. Let me talk to Allo before I start publishing info outside of the diyaudio "testers" thread on how to make 3rd party products work with Kali.

I will repeat what was already posted in the diyaudio thread, because someone else tested it, over there. The HB DAC+ Pro, can be put into slave mode with the "slave" dt param, and that was confirmed to work, sat on top of the Kali.

dtoverlay=hifiberry-dacplus,slave

in /boot/config.txt. The HB DAC+ Pro dt "slave" param should have tricked down to the distros by now. It was committed to RPi kernel github on 31/05, Add dt param to use HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro in slave mode.

[sckramer]

Hi,

The DAC+ PRO does work... I'm experimenting with it on the Kali now--

It must be set to slave mode, and you need to supply the 3.3V.



/boot/config.txt snip:

[JackOfAll]

It appears the Kali has gone on sale in Europe via Volumio shop, ALLO – KALI I2S RECLOCKER.

There is some info on their site...

Kali will not work if your DAC is a master. Dac has to be slave. If your DAC uses the Hifiberry DAC, PI-DAC or RaspyPlayv3 parameter it will work right away!

OK, really? LOL. I didn't think that was the case, it's not just the driver that makes it compatible. As I already said the lack of 3.3V pass-through from Pi comes into play. If your HAT needs/uses it, you're gonna have a problem. But they must know what they are talking about, right? They are an official re-seller/distributor!

RASPBERRY PI DACS COMPATIBILITY
Successfully tested with:

Collybia Mamboberry LS DAC (any DAC that works with Hifiberry DAC parameter will work)
Piano HiFi DAC
Does not work with:

IQ-Audio PI DAC+ (we’re working on a workaround)
Hifiberry DAC+ (we’re working on a workaround)

It's also good that they are busy working on a workaround for the 2 most popular (by sales volume) DAC HAT's on the market to make them usable with Kali! <evil laugh> (They are going to ship a free standalone 3.3V power supply with every Kali???????? )

EDIT 20160928: I'd also suggest before buying into the "We really think this is a gamechanger.", that you confirm with them, that you will be receiving a board that results in right channel audio remaining the right channel audio (and vice-versa for left channel) before being fed into your stacked DAC HAT from Kali. ie. If the boards they are supplying are being supplied with modified firmware rather than using first gen firmware where the channels will be reversed for 16 bit data. Getting your left channel muddled with your right in 2016, could be called a "gamechanger", but not in a reputation enhancing way, for either the manufacturer, or distributor/re-seller of such a product!

[badboygolf16v]

Thanks for the information Clive. I sympathise with your reservations. Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but were you to supply the information, I would hope that everyone would understand there was no guarantee that anything would work. Caveat emptor!

Scott, thanks for the confirmation. I've got the same DIYINHK reg that you've got there so I might give you a shout when I get the KALI set up for some tips and comparisons.

[badboygolf16v]

OK, really? LOL. I didn't think that was the case, it's not just the driver that makes it compatible. As I already said the lack of 3.3V pass-through from Pi comes into play. If your HAT needs/uses it, you're gonna have a problem. But they must know what they are talking about, right? They are an official re-seller/distributor!

Scott will be pleased - he can disconnect his LDO reg and put it to better use! ;-)

[sckramer]

Scott will be pleased - he can disconnect his LDO reg and put it to better use! ;-)

I have plans But right now all on the testbench, seeing what makes en effective difference! Really like the flexibility of those power supplies! dual, 5V/3.3V choice & LT3042's, ac input filter, straight forward design (Hint, they like to be run under 200mA, there's a backup reg. that kicks in if you go above that & gets hot!) Wifi is powered separately, keeps the piZERO at a nice consistent 100mA.

listening with HD650's & Elac UB5's!!!

Playing with Clive's 384K kernel, and prepping to A/B test the with & without the Kali on the D+PRO --



Flat out enjoying the Kali on the big system, hits things from a different angle that's for sure!

[JackOfAll]

Really like the flexibility of those power supplies! dual, 5V/3.3V choice & LT3042's, ac input filter, straight forward design (Hint, they like to be run under 200mA, there's a backup reg. that kicks in if you go above that & gets hot!)

I keep meaning to order one of those LT3042 dual reg boards from diyinhk..... I still use many of the TPS7A4700 dual boards for various things DAC related.

[sckramer]

I keep meaning to order one of those LT3042 dual reg boards from diyinhk..... I still use many of the TPS7A4700 dual boards for various things DAC related.

Hello Clive,

When I was researching this almost went with the exact ones you have, then stumbled on these, and was a good price for ordering 2... 90 bucks for 4x 7v/5v/3.3v is perfect for pi experimenting... isn't the LT3042 the best chip right now?

it's well engineered & it was fun to build, therapeutic soldering :P

[JackOfAll]

it's well engineered & it was fun to build, therapeutic soldering :P

Scott,

Soldering is always therapeutic, unless you do it for a living.....

Do you have a fully working Kali now, without any of the firmware bugs?

[sckramer]

Scott,

Soldering is always therapeutic, unless you do it for a living.....

Do you have a fully working Kali now, without any of the firmware bugs?

Ahh, you love it ;P

Heck no, I still have the funky kali that at times goes in that bizarre .7 second loop, like a skipping record (hey, at least we know it's working) I've emailed Ioan about it, was gonna send a new one, but I think more problems cropped up--

FYI @iancanada is back in town, he's further along after all--> if you didn't see this already:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/291261-something-cool-raspberry-pi-odroid-i2s-dsd-isolator-hat-native-dsd-decoder-6.html

He just now started the GB...

related: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org...e-9#post-89017

[adamdea]

I'm starting this thread as a request for information from JackOfAll. I thought it might be useful to have this information on a separate thread that others could easily find. I suspect there may be a reasonable amount of interest in the KALI Reclocker.

Allo have released an interesting product called the KALI Reclocker that will provide a low jitter I2S input to Raspberry Pi DACs. KALI will only work with DACs that operate in Slave mode.

I believe I'm correct to say that some DACs that work in Slave mode are the Mamboberry LS and the Allo Piano DACs. DACS that work in Master mode are the HiFiBerry and IQaudIO DACs - therefore they do not work with the KALI.

Now I would like to give the KALI a try, but unfortunately I only have an IQaudIO DAC+ and a HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro.

I have seen posts on diyAudio that indicate there are patch sets that may allow these DACs that run in Master mode by default to run in Slave mode.

I wondered if this was correct? And if so, are these kernel or driver patches? Would that guarantee these DACs would work with the KALI, or would testing be required for confirmation.

Thanks in advance Clive.

This makes no sense to me. AFAIK there is pretty much zero point in 12s with the dac as slave. if you already have a dac which works the right way (ie with the dac as master) why seek out a dac which does it the wrong way so that you can buy another item to alleviate the problem caused by the dac working the wrong way? It seems like you want to get someone to put a hole in your roof so you can try out an umbrella. This would only make sense if the dac with a master clock has a really useless clock. IN that case I think you'd be better off buying a dac with a decent internal clock.

If I have misunderstood this then I would be delighted to have it explained to me why one might prefer a dac in slave mode.

[JackOfAll]

This would only make sense if the dac with a master clock has a really useless clock. IN that case I think you'd be better off buying a dac with a decent internal clock.

Nail on the head..... Both of the two "master" HAT boards that are commonly available are "flawed"..... (And no, I'm not going to expand on that! )

[adamdea]

Nail on the head..... Both of the two "master" HAT boards that are commonly available are "flawed"..... (And no, I'm not going to expand on that! )

Perhaps someone will be able to publish some measurements demonstrating the superiority of the kali + slave solution for those boards.
Does the same apply to the audiophonics product?

[JackOfAll]

Perhaps someone will be able to publish some measurements demonstrating the superiority of the kali + slave solution for those boards.
Does the same apply to the audiophonics product?

Maybe Greg or Scott, or someone who has used the HB DAC+ Pro in master mode without Kali, and compared to same DAC+ Pro in slave, but with Kali, can post their impressions.

Since Allo called me a liar, I'm not inclined to want to say anything positive about any of their products in public, even if it is justified.