Logitech SqueezeBox replacement for under $30

[agillis]

There has been a lot of discussion in this forum about a replacement for the SqueezeBox. I worked on this problem over the holiday and I think I came up with a good solution. Using a low cost ARM based system I was able to build a box that basically does everything the SqueezeBox does for under $30. Even a unit with analog and optical/COAX SPDIF out can be built for under $60.

http://vortexbox.org/content/149-Logitech-SqueezeBox-replacement-for-under-30

EDIT:

VAMP 0.3 image is now up! If you are running the old image you will need to run these commands.

fw_setenv arcNumber
fw_setenv machid dd6

New features include
- Custom kernel
- Support for the LED on the front on the PogoPlug (now goes green when unit is running and Internet is up)
- Latest SqueezeLite
- Improvements in the web GUI

[erland]

There has been a lot of discussion in this forum about a replacement for the SqueezeBox. I worked on this problem over the holiday and I think I came up with a good solution. Using a low cost ARM based system I was able to build a box that basically does everything the SqueezeBox does for under $30. Even a unit with analog and optical/COAX SPDIF out can be built for under $60.

http://vortexbox.org/content/149-Logitech-SqueezeBox-replacement-for-under-30

What CPU does it have ?
How much memory ?
Does it even have enough power to run LMS on it ?
Do you plan to sell a pre-configured version of it similar to the VortexBox Appliance products ?

[chill]

This is excellent news. This is what I love about the Squeezebox community - despite the demise of the official product, or maybe because of it, the various community efforts (e.g. iPeng/Sqeezepad etc, Squeezelite, RPi and now the VAMP) are already making my spare Touch look redundant. Maybe I should sell it on eBay while it's still a seller's market!

What would it take to make a software player do the job of a UE player I wonder. Are we in danger of killing off a UE Touch before it's even announced?

[bernt]

This is excellent news. This is what I love about the Squeezebox community - despite the demise of the official product, or maybe because of it, the various community efforts (e.g. iPeng/Sqeezepad etc, Squeezelite, RPi and now the VAMP) are already making my spare Touch look redundant. Maybe I should sell it on eBay while it's still a seller's market!

What would it take to make a software player do the job of a UE player I wonder. Are we in danger of killing off a UE Touch before it's even announced?

A UE Touch would probably (I hope) have a display and ir-remote so they are not really competitors.

[erland]

What would it take to make a software player do the job of a UE player I wonder. Are we in danger of killing off a UE Touch before it's even announced?

To kill a potential UE Touch it would have to be distributed and sold in all warehouses where mass market users would buy a potential UE Touch.

I think it's more likely that a Pogoplug based solution will be a solution for geeks and entusiasts and these are likely going to be a very small part of the total numbers of users Logitech would like to reach with a potential UE Touch product.

A UE Touch would probably (I hope) have a display and ir-remote so they are not really competitors.

Honestly, I'm not even sure the UE Touch (if Logitech is working on that) will be anywhere close to how Squeezebox Touch works, just look at UE Smart Radio and compare it with a Squeezebox Radio, it's two completely different devices except for the hardware. The reason Squeezebox Radio and UE Smart Radio uses almost identical hardware is likely because Logitech wanted to get it out before Christmas, so there wasn't time to develop new hardware, the situation might be different for a UE Touch product where they have had more time to develop specific UE hardware. UE Touch could be more similar to a Squeezebox Receiver (the player in the Duet package).

[garym]

Does it even have enough power to run LMS on it ?

My reading is that it would replace a TOUCH player. But LMS would still need to run elsewhere (vortexbox, PC, NAS, etc.).

Also, my question is related to whether one could run free pandora on this unit. The software SB players I use (squeezeplay) won't allow me to run the free pandora.

[erland]

Also, my question is related to whether one could run free pandora on this unit. The software SB players I use (squeezeplay) won't allow me to run the free pandora.

I'm guessing the reason Pandora doesn't work is because Logitech have blocked software players from some mysqueezebox.com services ?
In that case, I suspect any software or hardware player provided by third parties will have the same problem, Logitech is unlikely to allow something that result in that they have to keep mysqueezebox.com alive longer than necessary.

[pippin]

You need a paid Pandora account to make it work with software players.
Rhapsody won't work at all. Spotify requires Triode's plugin.

[pippin]

Oh. And if you really want to sell it as an audio device you can add a healthy margin - something like 200-300% would be common - for distributors and the fact that you are in to open a can of worms regarding licensing. If you sell this thing as an audio device, you are violating patents you have to license and while the actual cost around that may be reasonable (you need to allow for a decent minimum volume, though, don't think about selling only a few hundred devices), the process alone means you probably need somebody to work that full time plus a lawyer. Count that into your pice and you get a very different figure.

It's a common mistake made by smaller Asian electronics makers who think that just because they put a free free software with open source licenses on their devices and fulfill the license requirements of the software, they would be fine. Trade shows are full of booths with empty shelves because all the devices got seized due to this.

[Triode]

There has been a lot of discussion in this forum about a replacement for the SqueezeBox. I worked on this problem over the holiday and I think I came up with a good solution. Using a low cost ARM based system I was able to build a box that basically does everything the SqueezeBox does for under $30. Even a unit with analog and optical/COAX SPDIF out can be built for under $60.

http://vortexbox.org/content/149-Log...t-for-under-30

This is indeed the type of device I envisaged when I started writing squeezelite. It's intended to be a good emulation of a squeezebox from a headless playback point of view and to support usb audio devices. When run on a low power arm device this gives a good alternative to the Touch with usb output for people with usb dacs. Recent linux kernels also have good support for async dacs.

A few things to note:
- I think the pogoplug hardware is dumped stock and there are relatively few left (I couldn't get one in the uk!)
- Squeezelite is GPL licensed but I think I would be happy to talk about anyone basing a proprietary product on it (non open source)
- It uses libmad and and libfaad which are GPL licensed for non commercial use, but anyone selling a product would need to license for both the codec software and patent licenses.

That said - I think a free opensource community player is an excellent idea

[My original target device was a Raspberry Pi, I'm hoping its usb driver can get fixed to make this a reality]

[castalla]

This is indeed the type of device I envisaged when I started writing squeezelite. It's intended to be a good emulation of a squeezebox from a headless playback point of view and to support usb audio devices. When run on a low power arm device this gives a good alternative to the Touch with usb output for people with usb dacs. Recent linux kernels also have good support for async dacs.

A few things to note:
- I think the pogoplug hardware is dumped stock and there are relatively few left (I couldn't get one in the uk!)
- Squeezelite is GPL licensed but I think I would be happy to talk about anyone basing a proprietary product on it (non open source)
- It uses libmad and and libfaad which are GPL licensed for non commercial use, but anyone selling a product would need to license for both the codec software and patent licenses.

That said - I think a free opensource community player is an excellent idea

[My original target device was a Raspberry Pi, I'm hoping its usb driver can get fixed to make this a reality]

... the Pogoplug is not a cheap solution for Euro users - the prices for Pogoplugs in Europe are very high! Shippng from US adds another 40 GBP !!!

[albright]

doesn't seem to have wifi? Or am I missing that

my stereo is not beside my router

[erland]

Oh. And if you really want to sell it as an audio device you can add a healthy margin - something like 200-300% would be common - for distributors and the fact that you are in to open a can of worms regarding licensing. If you sell this thing as an audio device, you are violating patents you have to license and while the actual cost around that may be reasonable (you need to allow for a decent minimum volume, though, don't think about selling only a few hundred devices), the process alone means you probably need somebody to work that full time plus a lawyer. Count that into your pice and you get a very different figure.

It's a common mistake made by smaller Asian electronics makers who think that just because they put a free free software with open source licenses on their devices and fulfill the license requirements of the software, they would be fine. Trade shows are full of booths with empty shelves because all the devices got seized due to this.

Just for my understanding, is the licensing issues any different than for the current Vortexbox Appliance products which also includes a software player last time I checked ?
At least my Vortexbox installation on a laptop have a software player built-in.

[Julf]

My original target device was a Raspberry Pi, I'm hoping its usb driver can get fixed to make this a reality

If not, there will be a Pi 2.0, or some other competitor offering even more power and functionality for less money and space... It seems to be a nicely developing space...

[agillis]

The PogoPlug I'm using has a Marvell Kirkwood 1.2GHz (ARM) processor and 256 GB memory. You could run LMS on it if you wanted. I'm using squeezeplug as a base OS so this would be very easy to do.

I never recommend running LMS on a unit like this becasue of problems with rebuilding a your libary, WMA playback, Spotify etc. Your much better off haveing a VortexBox and use the VAMP as a player only.

As for wifi this would be required to make this a true replacement for the SqueezeBox. This unit does not have wifi so you will need to use something like a HomePlug adapter for now. I consider HomePlug more reliable then wifi but that is a discussion for another thread! I have a small wifi dongle that cost $8. I will be writing more articles about the VAMP and I may write one on wifi enabling it.

I'm sorry the pogo is not available in Europe. Maybe I'll find a cheap way to ship them there! I would love to base the VAMP off something that is more widely available worldwide. I looked at the Pi but you need a case for it. That can cost almost as much as the unit for a nice one. Also only one USB port. The Pogo has 4 usb ports and comes in a nice case already for under $20!