Benchmark vs. CIAudio VDA-2

[melomaniac]

Cia Vda-1?

how do people feel about the predecessor, the Channel Islands Audio VDA-1 DAC? is it an improvement over the analog out of the SB3?

I am trying to decide between an inexpensive DAC like this one, and an upgraded power supply. which would make more of a difference?

[kphinney]

how do people feel about the predecessor, the Channel Islands Audio VDA-1 DAC? is it an improvement over the analog out of the SB3?

I am trying to decide between an inexpensive DAC like this one, and an upgraded power supply. which would make more of a difference?

What works best for you (or me) may not be the preference of someone else. I recently sold my Meridian 556 DAC to someone who really liked the sound of his Meridian 508 CD player. For him the sound of this DAC was perfect. I to preferred the Meridian over the CIAudio but 1) my wife likes the VDA better and 2) the Meridian is very large and I'm short on space.

Think about where you want your money to go and you may find that other upgrades are more worthwhile than a DAC. I wouldn't jump on the DAC band-wagon if I needed to upgrade my speakers for example. The internal DAC in the SB3 is pretty good. A DAC should be used to compliment your system. The VDA-2 with my tube amp and Fostex drivers deliver a very good sound - to me.

But, to quote CIAudio's website: "Order factory direct today on our 30-day satisfaction guarantee* and get FREE shipping**"

[corbey]

I am trying to decide between an inexpensive DAC like this one, and an upgraded power supply. which would make more of a difference?

I have the SB3 power supply plugged into a PSAudio P300 power plant (not quite the same as upgrading the power supply, I know), and it did seem to noticeably lower the noise level. Blacker backgrounds, and all that.

However, the difference was much less than when I added the VDA-2 DAC, which really brought the sound of the SB3 up to the level of a high-end CD player.

[kphinney]

2pm EST, Saturday June 16

I just bought a Channel Islands Audio DAC and a friend of mine is on his way over with a Benchmark DAC1 for a little comparison. I'd like You to tell us what comparisons to run and we'll report back with our impressions.

Many here are proponents of the DAC1 so here's the unit we're comparing to and my current setup:

CI Audio VDA-2 with VAC-1 Upgrade Power Supply
"...coaxial SPDIF, then fed to the CS8416 24 bit/192k low jitter input receiver, then to the Burr Brown PCM1794 balanced/current output DAC."

JoLida 102B Amp
2 matched pairs J J Tesla EL84's.
Electro-Harmonix 12AX7A pre-amp tubes.

Omega 6 Grande
Full range Fostex FE 167E driver without crossover.
95dB sensitivity 50-20KHz frequency response.

Two Years Later... The Saga Continues....

My good old bud G picked up some cigars in an less than acceptable place located close to the equator and decided to pop over to listen to an unbelievably old LP he dug out of his closet. Me, being the only one he knew with an adoration for both cigars (new) and useable phonograph (old), decided to spend a weekend-night listening to music while my wife was out of town.
Before coming over we decided that he'd best bring his Benchmark DAC1 for a 2 year rematch/tiebreaker against my CI Audio VDA-2 & VAC-1.

Well honestly, the cigars were more interesting. I can now tell a cigar rolled by the underpaid relative of a far flung Florida immigrant vs that of a Virginia machine produced roll better than I can tell the difference between the CIAudio gear and the Benchmark gear.
It just so happened that we had a few additional speakers to try out this time and our listening room was much improved as I am demo'ing Zu's Druid as well as a B&W 802d. ((Yeah, I know - I said I'd never go back to B&W after buying my Omega 6 Grande's, but I couldn't pass the deal up. Anyway, they didn't last. The B&W's. For the heck of it I pulled out a pair of JBL 4-way 1972 speakers that just suck juice and the B&W's were only comparable but 2000x more expensive....))

Benchmark vs CIAudio. With 2 years of burn-in the results are the same: we both give the VDA-2 and upgraded PS a 5 out of 5, whereas the Benchmark gets a 4.5 out of 5.

Price: Benchmark DAC1 vs Channel Islands Audio and upgraded PS - about the same.
Noise floor: Black as night on both.
High range: Slight edge to CIAudio. Let me explain - medium volume Stephen Stills "Just Roll Tape" the Benchmark cracked. It didn't handle his loose and floppy playing clean on the high end. It sounded like I needed to turn the volume down to prevent a crackle that was 'always almost there'. CIA sounded very good. As a tie breaker I pulled out my 180 gram LP thru a Parasound & Rega phono and, ... well, honestly the LP sounded better but no clearer than the CI Audio, but very much better than the Benchmark. We followed this up with another trifecta: Jackson Brown "Running on Empty", Track 1 - "Running On" Benchmark - opposite effect - it was flat on vocals. CIA - just fine. LP - A tad better.

Low end: No difference. Tight bass. We spent two hours on it - at least. An entire Roger Waters DVD-A ripped to ALAC and switching back and forth between the Benchmark, CIAudio and Rotel CD player (sans DAC). Slight edge to the Rotel but NOT on the low end. All three were spot on exact. Unfortunately I didn't have an LP to cue up, but that's not really the point anyway; since both DACs were the same why introduce yet a 3rd format.

[boxerboy]

Thanks for your update

I have the Channel Islands DAC and was wondering if the DAC-1 would be an upgrade. It seems that it would be no better than an even swap.

Do you think any of new more expensive DAC's would come close to the performance of a transporter?

Jim

[kphinney]

I have the Channel Islands DAC and was wondering if the DAC-1 would be an upgrade. It seems that it would be no better than an even swap.

Do you think any of new more expensive DAC's would come close to the performance of a transporter?

Jim

I can only guess that an un-modded Squeezebox will never sound as good as a Transporter. And by the time you reach a modified SB that does parallel the TP in sound quality you've already surpassed it in price.

SB was designed to get your tunes off of your computer and onto your basic to respectably high quality audio system.
TP was designed as an audiophile device with 24 bit resolution and 96k sample rates and other specs that raise it far above that of the SB: World Clock capabilities, the AK4396 ‘Miracle DAC’, etc.

But don't kid yourself and think that the TP will make your music sound better all by itself.
A good clean power supply and high quality speaker cables may do more for you. It all depends on your system. I'd love to try out the Transporter in my system *** and if anyone is in the Boston/South Shore area I'll make sure I have plenty of snacks and wine if you want to bring a TP over.***

[duke43j]

Benchmark vs. CIAudio VDA-2

I don't have a transporter, but I can bring the wine and snacks if you can show me the difference between the SB3 analog out vs. an external DAC.
I've been thinking about springing for an external DAC for quite a while, but I am not sure if there will be $1K worth of improvement. I've read all these great reviews of the Benchmark, so I was leaning toward it. But the technology has improved since it first came out, and I would think there must be equivalent (or better) DACs on the market at a lower price.

My system is -- SB3 or Rega Apollo CDP => VTL 2.5 pre => Classe CA-2100 amp => Thiel CS2.4s.

I like the sound of the Rega CDP, but I like the convenience of the SB3. I would love to have both.

[Phil Leigh]

I don't have a transporter, but I can bring the wine and snacks if you can show me the difference between the SB3 analog out vs. an external DAC.
I've been thinking about springing for an external DAC for quite a while, but I am not sure if there will be $1K worth of improvement. I've read all these great reviews of the Benchmark, so I was leaning toward it. But the technology has improved since it first came out, and I would think there must be equivalent (or better) DACs on the market at a lower price.

My system is -- SB3 or Rega Apollo CDP => VTL 2.5 pre => Classe CA-2100 amp => Thiel CS2.4s.

I like the sound of the Rega CDP, but I like the convenience of the SB3. I would love to have both.

Just because there are some more recent DAC chips on the market definitely doesn't mean that they are better than (for example) the Benchmark. The circuit design is just as - possibly more - important in getting a good sound!

[timequest]

I don't have a transporter, but I can bring the wine and snacks if you can show me the difference between the SB3 analog out vs. an external DAC.
I've been thinking about springing for an external DAC for quite a while, but I am not sure if there will be $1K worth of improvement. I've read all these great reviews of the Benchmark, so I was leaning toward it. But the technology has improved since it first came out, and I would think there must be equivalent (or better) DACs on the market at a lower price.

My system is -- SB3 or Rega Apollo CDP => VTL 2.5 pre => Classe CA-2100 amp => Thiel CS2.4s.

I like the sound of the Rega CDP, but I like the convenience of the SB3. I would love to have both.

Duke – I’ve heard, but not listened extensively to the DAC1. I have done extensive auditioning of the transporter vs PS Audio DL-III. Clearly – and I mean clearly audible, appreciable and noticeably better (more transparent, more controlled –especially in the bass, more airy, and with more defined soundstage) – the stock DL-III outperformed the transporter. You can now pick up a brand new DL-III from PS Audio for $699. I also did extensive A/B comparisons between the stock DL-III and my Cullen Stage IV upgraded DL-III. The Cullen DAC outperformed the stock unit in a way that was also noticeable and apparent (but not as noticeable as was the difference between the stock DL-III and the transporter). In terms of this hobby’s typical diminishing returns, I believe that the additional $700 for the Stage IV upgrade is justifiable by the slight gains in fidelity. That said however, before you spring for the Cullen upgrade, I would suggest that you try to audition the stock unit with a Cullen unit.

Hope this helps.

[kphinney]

I don't have a transporter, but I can bring the wine and snacks if you can show me the difference between the SB3 analog out vs. an external DAC.
I've been thinking about springing for an external DAC for quite a while, but I am not sure if there will be $1K worth of improvement. I've read all these great reviews of the Benchmark, so I was leaning toward it. But the technology has improved since it first came out, and I would think there must be equivalent (or better) DACs on the market at a lower price.

My system is -- SB3 or Rega Apollo CDP => VTL 2.5 pre => Classe CA-2100 amp => Thiel CS2.4s.

I like the sound of the Rega CDP, but I like the convenience of the SB3. I would love to have both.

I'd be glad to. I have Friday night free if you're up to it. Bring your choice of CD's and well play them on the CD player, and rip them for an A-B test on the SB with and without the CI DAC.

And I agree with Phil - your choice of one DAC over another is completely subjective due to an overwhelming amount of variables in your system, room, treatments, and ears. I cannot honestly say that a $800 Channel Islands DAC and PS is better than the Benchmark. I can only say that it sounds better to me on my system.

[Phil Leigh]

... the slight gains in fidelity....

This is a slippery slope. Your "fidelity" is my "euphonics".

DAC's are like styli or speakers... a matter entirely of preference. Fidelity doesn't come into it. Each to their own!

[duke43j]

Kphinney - I would love to get together, but Friday night is date night at our house (with my wife). Maybe we should make arrangements offline. My e-mail address is [email protected].

Phil - I absolutely agree. The analog stage is, in effect, a preamp running in a noisy environment. A poorly designed analog stage can mess up the signal just as easily as a poor DAC chip. But I was thinking that the speed of the chipsets must have improved (and become cheaper) since the DAC1 came out 7 years ago.

timequest - I've also heard good things about the DL-III, and I believe you when you say it significantly improved your sound. One of the problems I'm having is how to choose the right DAC for my system. Part of the problem is that the magazines never write a negative review. Also, people that report on a DAC that they bought aren't going to say that they made a bad decision. So it's hard to compare one DAC vs another because they all sound so wonderful.
No reviewer ever said that the SB3 was better than any external DAC you can name. I've heard the DAC on the SB3 and it's pretty good. So, I can't believe that all external DACs are light years better. Then there is the question of tonality. Some say that the DAC1 is very analytical, where the DL-III and Lavry are warmer. I'm not sure where the Dacmagic fits in. I would like to get a feel for whether the analytical vs. tube sound is a dominant trait - i.e. will choosing the wrong DAC totally screw up my sound or just flavor it somewhat? To be honest, I don't even know which camp I prefer to be in (analytical vs. tube sound).
Anyway, I guess the best thing is to listen to as many as I can before making a purchase. But they are not readily available to test drive like we can a new car.