Does it makes sense to upgrade my DAC from the Logitech Transporter DAC?

[dizzysnakepilot]

I bought a cheap DAC (Topping E50) for the audio output from from my new TV. It sounds better with some types of music (metal, rock) than my Logitech Transporter, more "punchy". But also sounds like cheap gear in that the music sounds like it is going through a cheese grater.

My question is, does it make sense to upgrade my older stereo system with a better DAC, or has new technology also surpassed the rest of my system?

Stereo is:

Linn Kolektor preamp
2 Linn LK140 amps with Aktiv cards
Bi-amped Linn Ninka speakers

Thanks!

[garym]

If it sounds bad like a cheese grater, yet still sounds better than your transporter, something is very wrong. Transporter sounds quite good.

[slartibartfast]

If it sounds bad like a cheese grater, yet still sounds better than your transporter, something is very wrong. Transporter sounds quite good.

Can you imagine what a cheese grater sounds like 🤣

[sgmlaw]

I bought a cheap DAC (Topping E50) for the audio output from from my new TV. It sounds better with some types of music (metal, rock) than my Logitech Transporter, more "punchy". But also sounds like cheap gear in that the music sounds like it is going through a cheese grater.

My question is, does it make sense to upgrade my older stereo system with a better DAC, or has new technology also surpassed the rest of my system?

Stereo is:

Linn Kolektor preamp
2 Linn LK140 amps with Aktiv cards
Bi-amped Linn Ninka speakers

Thanks!

It sounds like your cheap DAC sounds like a cheap DAC.

I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but the DAC section in the TP through the D2A stage is still pretty good, even all these years later. You’ll need to go a bit over $1,000 in a new outboard DAC to better it. And it’s not so much about the digital stages. A DAC, like any other front end audio instrument, is more than just its chips. The analog out stage in the TP is only fair, and that, and the power supply build are what separates it from the high dollar instruments. But the sound differences grow slighter as you climb that totem pole. If your speakers can’t resolve those differences, invest there first before chasing a new DAC.

I’m not so sure a television set output (and the heavily processed media it tends to consume) is necessarily an optimal digital head end. It makes downstream comparisons that much harder.

The specific topic of how good the TP is has been fought over here since day one, and has generated a lot of acrimonious past debate. I’m not intending to restart those flame wars.

Bottom line: yes, there are better sounding DACs than what the TP offers, but you’ll need to spend a lot to do so. And not a Topping.

[Zombie]

Usually elcos begin dry out a bit after 10 years or so. Maybe a refurb would help, if you're handy with a soldering iron

[dizzysnakepilot]

Zombie What are the "elcos"?

Sounds like the Transporter's DAC can still hold up after all these years. I wonder if the music my kids are into is designed to sound better on an inaccurate but punchy car stereo or cheap system.

[cliveb]

Zombie
I wonder if the music my kids are into is designed to sound better on an inaccurate but punchy car stereo or cheap system.

The way rock and pop has been mastered for the last decade or so means it sounds better on a portable through earbuds than it does on a decent system.
Revealing speakers are a double edged sword, because they reveal how badly the mastering has mangled the sound.

[d6jg]

The way rock and pop has been mastered for the last decade or so means it sounds better on a portable through earbuds than it does on a decent system.
Revealing speakers are a double edged sword, because they reveal how badly the mastering has mangled the sound.

Are we talking "loudness wars"?
That was definitely prelavent in the early 2000s but I thought the trend had moved back to more dynamic range.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

[slartibartfast]

Are we talking "loudness wars"?
That was definitely prelavent in the early 2000s but I thought the trend had moved back to more dynamic range.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Although when Elbow released "The Seldom Seen Kid" with a label on it claiming increased dynamic range as part of a "Turn me up!" campaign the replaygain album gain was still -9.72 dB with a dynamic range of 7 according to the loudness war info website 😀

[Redrum]

Zombie What are the "elcos"?

Electrolytic Capacitors - non solid e-caps can deteriorate over time which results in continual lowering capacitance and increasing ESR (effective series resistance). Both bad things for a design. Old e-caps don't have to "fail" to dramatically affect performance.

It's so prevalent in old gear that there's a whole forum dedicated to it! https://www.badcaps.net/forum/

Jim

[sgmlaw]

Electrolytic Capacitors - non solid e-caps can deteriorate over time which results in continual lowering capacitance and increasing ESR (effective series resistance). Both bad things for a design. Old e-caps don't have to "fail" to dramatically affect performance.

It's so prevalent in old gear that there's a whole forum dedicated to it! https://www.badcaps.net/forum/

Jim

I’ve been under the hood of a few TPs, and have recapped more electronics than I can remember at this point. Modern electrolytics for the most part are good for 25-30 years if well specified and the equipment is well designed. The older vintage FP twist lock types can go well over 50 years in some instances.

On the TP, all the caps on the mainboard should still be fine at this point. The ones to keep an eye on are those providing filtering on the little 5v PSU sub board. They are cheap, low quality sino caps that are run 24/7, with inadequate thermals, and are good for about 10-12 years or so. A replacement PSU board is about $35, but still has the same deficiencies. The better fix is to recap the existing board with high quality Japanese replacements. The designers cut corners on this PSU, and it causes all sorts of issues as it starts to fade.

The capacitor ‘plague’ of a couple decades ago was the result of a stolen partial electrolyte formula from Rubycon, that Chinese makers then used in low quality caps that found their way into some computer motherboards. The stolen formula was incomplete, causing premature failures. This far out, it is of no practical concern from a recapping standpoint. Buy first-tier brand replacements from one of the major distributors (Mouser, Digikey, Newark, etc.), and have no worries whatsoever. Where you want to avoid is Ebay, where many low quality counterfeits of those brands are peddled.

The TP is mainly a box of air inside. But the mainboard is well laid out with decent quality parts. Don’t touch it if is working fine.

[cliveb]

Are we talking "loudness wars"?
That was definitely prelavent in the early 2000s but I thought the trend had moved back to more dynamic range.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Sort of. And my personal view is that the loudness wars started much earlier. Even the 1990 Jimmy Page / George Marino Led Zeppelin remasters have a touch of the problem.

But it's no longer simply "loudness wars". Because of what happened back then, we now have a whole generation of so-called mastering engineers who grew up hearing that characteristic sound and believe that rock & pop is supposed to sound that way. And of course we also have a generation of music consumers who likewise think that's how it's supposed to sound.

[foxesden]

The topping E50 is a well measuring DAC and is measurably transparent https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...ced-dac.26219/ However it is unlikely that you will hear any differences if you level match between it and the Transporter playing the same source. One of the key issues comparing gear is that not many people compare audio gear by properly level matching (i.e. DAC outputs using a voltmeter) leave only with a sound meter, and rarely test blind (i.e. Not knowing what is playing).
TV Outputs can be quite jittery to the extent that it can cause audio dropouts, but I think that the comments about loudness are on point, as this may be causing clipping. If you have replay gain on with your LMS setup but not on via TV this is most likely the cause of the "cheesegrater" sound as that is what bad clipping sounds like to me too.

[cfuttrup]

Can you imagine what a cheese grater sounds like 🤣

Parmesan cheese :-D