Wiim Mini and Pro

[d6jg]

WiiM Mini firmware 4.6.517037 - LMS UPnP/DLNA Bridge v2.2.2

Playing local FLAC and Qobuz. Gapless seems to still be working in passthrough mode.

[d6jg]

WiiM Mini firmware 4.6.516229 - LMS UPnP/DLNA Bridge v2.2.1

An hour and a half in and this is looking very promising. Don't Stop The Music has thrown up various 16/44.1, 24/96 and 24/192 tracks both from my own library and from Qobuz. I haven't had anything miss a beat yet. Stuff coming from Qobuz at 24/192 is being correctly downsampled by LMS to 24/96 before passthrough to the WiiM. Gapless where appropriate and short track handling has been correct.

While it is of no consequence to me as I am controlling via LMS/Material I have kept an eye of the metadata sent to the WiiM app by the UPnP/DLNA Bridge. It has updated correctly with one very very minor exception - kbps seems to be stuck and is displaying the data from the first track played. My ears tell me that what is actually reaching my DAC is correct.

[d6jg]

A recent firmware update buggered up the WiiM's ability to play nicely with the Bridge in passthrough mode but I have the beta firmware on my Mini now - 4.6.516229 - and using in conjunction with LMS UPnP/DLNA Bridge v2.2.1

The bridge has been reconfigured back from flow mode to simply pass the stream from LMS to the WiiM with no alteration at a max sample rate of 96,000 to match the optical input on my CD Receiver.

I have made some very limited tests in the time available but so far gapless playback of local FLAC has been fine - DSOTM has played straight through. I will let LMS's Don't Stop The Music do its stuff over the course of the day which will throw a mix of stuff from various sources at various bit rates and will report back but looking good.

[slartibartfast]

If you notice a significant difference in audio volume between the Duet Receiver and your HifiBerrys when using Roon, I doubt if this is caused by the hardware. My suspicion is that it is a setting somewhere. I don't use Roon, so I can't help you with player settings in Roon. I would expect that to get equal audio volume you need to increase the Roon volume setting of the Duet Receiver, or decrease the Roon volume setting of your HifiBerrys.


In this article I see a signal amplitude of 2.4V (i.e. 4.8Vpp) for a 0dBFS square-wave at the analog output of the Duet Receiver. Assuming a similar amplitude for a sinewave, this amplitude equals 2.4V/sqrt(2) = 1.7Vrms. This is not very low. The 2.9V amplitude of the Touch equals 2.05Vrms for a sinewave. A CD player usually outputs 2Vrms full scale. The 1.7Vrms of the Duet is only 1.4dB lower than the standard 2Vrms full scale output of a CD player (20 log (1.7/2) = -1.41 dB).

It would be equivalent to reducing the volume to 97 from 100 on a Squeezebox, not easily noticeable. Maybe the OP is using replaygain on the Duet but not the Hifiberrys.

[CJS]

My main gripe with the Duets is that the volume is low compared to my Roon endpoints (HiFiBerrys). Are the WiiM's an upgrade to the Duets?
...
No idea why the volume is so low with the Duets. Thoughts?

If you notice a significant difference in audio volume between the Duet Receiver and your HifiBerrys when using Roon, I doubt if this is caused by the hardware. My suspicion is that it is a setting somewhere. I don't use Roon, so I can't help you with player settings in Roon. I would expect that to get equal audio volume you need to increase the Roon volume setting of the Duet Receiver, or decrease the Roon volume setting of your HifiBerrys.

According to Archimago the Duet Receiver output is lower than the Touch with a peak output voltage of 2.4 Volts vs 2.9 Volts for the Touch.
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/0...eiver.html?m=1

In this article I see a signal amplitude of 2.4V (i.e. 4.8Vpp) for a 0dBFS square-wave at the analog output of the Duet Receiver. Assuming a similar amplitude for a sinewave, this amplitude equals 2.4V/sqrt(2) = 1.7Vrms. This is not very low. The 2.9V amplitude of the Touch equals 2.05Vrms for a sinewave. A CD player usually outputs 2Vrms full scale. The 1.7Vrms of the Duet is only 1.4dB lower than the standard 2Vrms full scale output of a CD player (20 log (1.7/2) = -1.41 dB).

[d6jg]

I’d caution against replacing at this stage.

Recent firmware update has changed how the WiiM deals with gapless playback. While these relatively frequent firmware updates are occurring it’s too risky.

[slartibartfast]

I have 3 Duets that I am thinking about replacing with the WiiM Pros/Mini's. My main gripe with the Duets is that the volume is low compared to my Roon endpoints (HiFiBerrys). Are the WiiM's an upgrade to the Duets?

Also, I was thinking that once the WiiM's are Roon certified, I can use them for Roon and convert the HiFiBerry's to Squezeboxes and see how they compare to the Duets. No idea why the volume is so low with the Duets. I like the Roon interface for some things, and the Squeezebox interface for other things. Thoughts?

According to Archimago the Duet Receiver output is lower than the Touch with a peak output voltage of 2.4 Volts vs 2.9 Volts for the Touch.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-squeezebox-duet-receiver.html?m=1

[mondo]

I got a Wiim pro a few days ago. As i posted on the Upnp Bridge thread, LMS/Upnp bridge version 2.12.11 works well with the Wiim after changing the gapless setting to "force". Also, as an experiment, i plugged the output from my Squeezebox Duet receiver into the Wiim Pro input - and voila, native LMS client via the Wiim. (That is not my planned use case, but for those who have a spare Squeezebox, it would be an option pending any implementation of Squeezelite by Wiim.) Overall, i think the Wiim Pro seems to have good build quality and functionality for the price.

I have 3 Duets that I am thinking about replacing with the WiiM Pros/Mini's. My main gripe with the Duets is that the volume is low compared to my Roon endpoints (HiFiBerrys). Are the WiiM's an upgrade to the Duets?

Also, I was thinking that once the WiiM's are Roon certified, I can use them for Roon and convert the HiFiBerry's to Squezeboxes and see how they compare to the Duets. No idea why the volume is so low with the Duets. I like the Roon interface for some things, and the Squeezebox interface for other things. Thoughts?

[d6jg]

The WiiM Pro has appeared as available on Amazon UK.
I have ordered one and will be able to give some feedback on its performance as compared to the WiiM Mini when used in conjunction with the UPnP/DLNA Bridge.
It is due for delivery tomorrow along with a short coax cable.

[whitman]

I now have .19 beta running.

In my Wiim Pro settings I reverted transcode to blank (=none) and turned off Flow. I set the new delay box in Streaming Options at 20.

Bingo—I now have Qobuz via LMS to the Wiim Pro and my Topping DAC delivering perfectly.

All tracks are playing at whatever bit rate/depth Qobuz offers, and I've yet to experience any of the previous track omissions, leaps, or erratic behaviour.

Oh, and DSOTM plays gaplessly,

Ticks in all boxes, I believe.

Thank you Philippe! And also Jim for patient guidance.

Now then, off to listen to Prefab Sprout's masterful Andromeda Heights ...

[d6jg]

From the manual:

"As described in introduction, full processing mode still sends tracks one by one, as received by LMS. This means that gapless will be as good as what your UPnP player provides. To have true gapless, all the tracks should be sent as if they were a single continuous flow of audio. This is what the “flow” option enables and that enables cross-fade as well. You also must set a fixed sample rate and sample size for the flow, using the <mode> parameter (by default, the bridge will use 44.1 kHz and 16 bits)"

Also, do you have a particular reason for sending pcm to the WiiM? You're probably better off with flac, if only to save on bandwidth, especially if upsampling *everything* to 24/192.

I think I suggested pcm to be fair. I suggested it because it almost always works - even poorly designed UPnP devices should be able to handle it at the cost of a bit of local bandwidth.

My WiiM Mini seems to be Ok with 2.1.19 in default passthrough mode but the trouble is my during the day listening isn't necessarily exposing the edge cases very well. I start with a local or Qobuz album in FLAC and then just let LastMix/DSTM do its stuff.

[whitman]

Also, do you have a particular reason for sending pcm to the WiiM? You're probably better off with flac, if only to save on bandwidth, especially if upsampling *everything* to 24/192.

Tried flac and no good through my Topping DAC which seems to insist upon PCM, so I'll stay with that.

[whitman]

Darrell, thanks for the manual clip. I should have looked.

No reason for PCM; I think it's just the default I'll give flac a whirl.

I might also abandon gapless (I don't play DSOTM that often) and see how I go. Will be good to see what .19 does when it's officially released, too.

Never dull, is it?

[darrell]

From the manual:

"As described in introduction, full processing mode still sends tracks one by one, as received by LMS. This means that gapless will be as good as what your UPnP player provides. To have true gapless, all the tracks should be sent as if they were a single continuous flow of audio. This is what the “flow” option enables and that enables cross-fade as well. You also must set a fixed sample rate and sample size for the flow, using the <mode> parameter (by default, the bridge will use 44.1 kHz and 16 bits)"

Also, do you have a particular reason for sending pcm to the WiiM? You're probably better off with flac, if only to save on bandwidth, especially if upsampling *everything* to 24/192.

[whitman]

I'm not aware of changing anything from previous behaviour. I'll wait for Philippe's comments, as you suggest.

In the meantime, perhaps the delay setting in the forthcoming .19 version might mean I don't have to use flow anyway.