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View Full Version : Is there any continued development of the Squeezebox server software?



bobkatz@digido.com
2013-04-03, 09:38
I gather the Squeezebox and the Transporter and the like are now dead. It's shockingly hard to believe, that Logitech would just abandon this line which seems successful to me. The perfect scenario would be if they sold off the division to another company.

My transporter (and Squeezebox) are not able to read some Pro Tools 24-bit wav files due to some field in the header. They won't even see the files as legitimate WAVs, which is sad, because the software should be smart enough to present the file as a playable candidate. It has sample rate and wordlength information, etc. I even know what the field is if anyone is still working on the server software. Is development basically stopped?

What would be the next step for me to run a player (either this player or another one), besides giving a funeral to what will soon become an expensive boat anchor (two of them)? Other companies make players, is there software for those servers which is still being developed and which I could run instead?

Thanks everyone for your help throughout the years. We solved a few problems here and I'm eternally grateful. My Transporter still works and plays files off of the Logitech media server.... it would be wonderful if I could keep it running.

Yeah, I can play music from iTunes, JRiver and other computer-based players. I don't even need the server software as I just access folders on the network. Is this the future, just computer-based players? No more "standalone"?

Regards,

Bob Katz

Julf
2013-04-03, 09:55
My transporter (and Squeezebox) are not able to read some Pro Tools 24-bit wav files due to some field in the header. They won't even see the files as legitimate WAVs, which is sad, because the software should be smart enough to present the file as a playable candidate.

If you can't edit the files themselves (to fix the header fields), maybe you could define a custom conversion function that filters the files in real time?

bobkatz@digido.com
2013-04-04, 05:58
If you can't edit the files themselves (to fix the header fields), maybe you could define a custom conversion function that filters the files in real time?

Thanks, Juif.

I can edit the files themselves to fix the header fields using an application such as Wave Editor on the Mac. Maybe I can applescript this function.

Do you mean a custom conversion function in the slimserver software (probably, as opposed to the transporter itself)? I know nothing about the architecture of the server software or the player device(s) other than the setup features that Logitech provides (I should say "provided"). I probably would have to depend on a plugin developer to fix this. But since it's a basic issue that affects the playback of all Pro Tools Wav files, if the software were still in development I would bring it up to the developers.

If someone in development wants to guide me, I'd have a hand in it, like if there is source code for a plugin that "almost does" what I need to have done I would try to tackle it. Are there any plans for the open source community to take over the development of the slimserver? Are there any other brands of currently-made players that would be compatible with it?

Best wishes and thanks,


Bob

Julf
2013-04-04, 07:13
I can edit the files themselves to fix the header fields using an application such as Wave Editor on the Mac. Maybe I can applescript this function.

It shouldn't be too hard to make a script to do the conversion. I could definitely do it on Linux, but I am not familiar enough with the Mac environment.


Do you mean a custom conversion function in the slimserver software (probably, as opposed to the transporter itself)?

I was actually thinking about a rule in "convert.conf", where you could perhaps define a rule for converting from wav to wav, just as you can define rules for converting flac, mp3 etc.

Mnyb
2013-04-04, 07:34
I was actually thinking about a rule in "convert.conf", where you could perhaps define a rule for converting from wav to wav, just as you can define rules for converting flac, mp3 etc.

Hmm, but the scanner must still accept the file ? if LMS cant accept them it wont matter much .

Julf
2013-04-04, 07:48
Hmm, but the scanner must still accept the file ? if LMS cant accept them it wont matter much .

Ah, yes, good point.

erland
2013-04-04, 08:20
Are there any plans for the open source community to take over the development of the slimserver?

No concrete plans known to the public as far as I know.
I'm pretty sure there are a number of individuals who are thinking about doing something.
We will just have to wait and see what happens.



Are there any other brands of currently-made players that would be compatible with it?

I've seen a number of low volume manufacturers who use LMS as server for their hardware, not sure anyone is big enough to maintain LMS themselves, I think most of them relies on Logitech distributing LMS (slimserver).

I've seen at least one who have decided to distribute their own version (http://www.myvoco.com/), no idea if they are allowed to do it or if they have just ignored the license restrictions which doesn't allow redistribution of some parts.

bobkatz@digido.com
2013-04-04, 08:30
Based on the recent replies in this thread (thank you all), my best bet is to try applescripting a wav conversion for incoming PT wavs. I do hope that someone tries to resurrect LMS independently. In the meantime I'm going to move to a computer-based player, it's my best option for a platform that's being continually developed.

Logitech, what were they thinking? I paid over $2000 for the Transporter and a squeezebox... for it to go "dead" because the server software is left to die a slow death. I'll bet some home theatre installers put these into home networks for their customers and must be pretty pissed, too.

DaveWr
2013-04-11, 05:04
Based on the recent replies in this thread (thank you all), my best bet is to try applescripting a wav conversion for incoming PT wavs. I do hope that someone tries to resurrect LMS independently. In the meantime I'm going to move to a computer-based player, it's my best option for a platform that's being continually developed.

Logitech, what were they thinking? I paid over $2000 for the Transporter and a squeezebox... for it to go "dead" because the server software is left to die a slow death. I'll bet some home theatre installers put these into home networks for their customers and must be pretty pissed, too.

Server software was free, big mistake. No continued funds to maintain. Coupled with many third parties producing software players, resulting in even less revenue for Logitech.

BJW
2013-04-18, 04:45
the biggest mistake was that they bought something they clearly didn't understand.

the second biggest mistake is that the business model was idiotic. the hardware cost way too much, was a one time thing, and didn't fund what actually cost them money, which was development of a slow, lumbering, hunk of shit server that no one wanted to use.

what Logitech should have done, imo, was focus on the hardware as media extenders for existing software that others develop and maintain. so it could work with winamp, iTunes, wmp, whatever. why they thought people would flock to a buggy server with a webui, I will never understand. not to mention it HAD to use the server.

they should sell it off. whoever buys it should adapt the hardware to work as I describe above, and then its just a matter of the hardware being better than other hardware and competing and finding a niche that way. let it work with any and everything out there, via a simple plugin or some kind of OS level middleman whose only job is to get the audio to the device. and no reason some hardware couldn't keep slim proto and some kind of unfinanced but encouraged community rewrite of server could be done, that strips away all the horseshit and addresses bugs and requests long since ignored.

pippin
2013-04-18, 05:11
Yea, let's make it simple, let's just make everything out there work with everything else. It's can't be hard, can't it?
It's just people are so stupid it never occurred to them that they could as well just make everything magically work with only a simple plugin!

JackOfAll
2013-04-18, 06:06
Yea, let's make it simple, let's just make everything out there work with everything else. It's can't be hard, can't it?
It's just people are so stupid it never occurred to them that they could as well just make everything magically work with only a simple plugin!

By definition, a 'simple plugin' needs to plugin to something. What are you plugging it into, simple fresh air?

boardtc
2013-04-18, 08:53
I gather the Squeezebox and the Transporter and the like are now dead. It's shockingly hard to believe, that Logitech would just abandon this line which seems successful to me. The perfect scenario would be if they sold off the division to another company.

Having found out the news only relatively recently I am still in shock. I have a boom in my kitchen and an original box connected to my hi-fi in the living room, my listening experience now via squeezebox is fantastic:
- Deezer for 5 euros a month is streaming new albums seconds after adding them to my library in my browser.
- bbc iplayer plugin makes the iplayer available as a sub menu of the internet radio and allows me to playback the whole of last week on the bbc network at my fingertip
- through music library I can access all my mp3 library residing on my WHS
- through the favorites menu I can access all my regular radio stations

How can the plug be pulled on this killer solution? Anyone I know who has invested in the network buys other components every so often building things up. The writing was on the wall when SlimDevices were bought out. Why are Logitech not trying to find a buyer is mind boggling, it's brutally shocking and stinks to high heaven of incompetence.

erland
2013-04-18, 09:07
what Logitech should have done, imo, was focus on the hardware as media extenders for existing software that others develop and maintain. so it could work with winamp, iTunes, wmp, whatever. why they thought people would flock to a buggy server with a webui, I will never understand. not to mention it HAD to use the server.

Are you saying that winamp, iTunes, wmp doesn't require a computer ?
If they do require a computer, what would be better if they rely on winamp, iTunes, wmp than relying on LMS ?

erland
2013-04-18, 09:15
How can the plug be pulled on this killer solution?

Market economy, if they don't earn enough on the products it's better for them to focus on something else.
On top of this many people in their management really never understood the products.



The writing was on the wall when SlimDevices were bought out.

Well, without Logitech they might have gone bankrupt after the Duet issues and Touch delays, so I'm not convinced we would be any better of without the acquisition.
We just have to realize that products disappear and when they do something new usually appears and takes it place if there are still users who want something similar.



Why are Logitech not trying to find a buyer is mind boggling, it's brutally shocking and stinks to high heaven of incompetence.

It's complicated as long as they still want to sell UE Smart Radio devices, selling Squeezebox to someone else would make it a competitor to their UE Smart Radio device, on top of this the two products also share a lot of code which complicates things.

BJW
2013-04-18, 12:37
Yea, let's make it simple, let's just make everything out there work with everything else. It's can't be hard, can't it?
It's just people are so stupid it never occurred to them that they could as well just make everything magically work with only a simple plugin!

what I am asking for could be done at the OS level, if they didn't want to do it as plugins, and either way, would be far simpler and cheaper than the failed strategy they employed. just look at the reality of their strategy, server is dead.


Are you saying that winamp, iTunes, wmp doesn't require a computer ?
If they do require a computer, what would be better if they rely on winamp, iTunes, wmp than relying on LMS ?

No, I'm not saying that. server requires a computer too. (and please don't tout the failed touch).

What would be better, is that people could use the programs they'd already have and are familiar with, instead of being forced to use a server program that sucks. What would be better for Logitech, is that the resources to do plugins or an OS middleware level layer would be far less than doing server.

jimbobvfr400
2013-04-18, 13:18
Not sure I agree, NAS box's perfectly capable of running server software are becoming ever more popular, hell even my mate jools now has a decent WD NAS and he's one of the least technical people I know.

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2

epoch1970
2013-04-18, 16:31
the biggest mistake was that they bought something they clearly didn't understand.

what Logitech should have done, imo, was focus on the hardware as media extenders for existing software that others develop and maintain. so it could work with winamp, iTunes, wmp, whatever.
Looks to me they are not alone. Are you looking for a cable?
(this is an old argument. The SB is a networked audio system, not point-to-point. And the slim server was in existence when iTunes was still an amicable OS9-only application.)

Mnyb
2013-04-18, 20:48
Looks to me they are not alone. Are you looking for a cable?
(this is an old argument. The SB is a networked audio system, not point-to-point. And the slim server was in existence when iTunes was still an amicable OS9-only application.)

+1

Yes it's not a long cable to the computers sound system , then you don't get this product at all :)

It's not about sitting in front of a computer pushing out music to a single piont . You use the web-UI to make settings or scan or occasionally controll stuff . Otherwise you use the players own interface ir remote or an app on a pad or phone

Rather having multiple players ( or one ) pulling music from a central source or the cloud and the playback is actually at the client so the whole thing is completely independent of the any kind of sound drivers in the OS . The server program is not a player .

The choice of a web-UI is because of that it usually not controlled from the same machine that it's running on , my server does not have a screen or keyboard . Server is ofcourse not even in the same room as the main music system .

bernt
2013-04-18, 23:47
LMS is the best music server software out there.

Just install it and forget it.

It's extremely stable and easy to use.

No, I'm not kidding.

alfista
2013-04-19, 05:32
The concept of LMS is in my opinion the greatest strength of the system and what set it apart from the competition (many of which withered and died long before SB). It is also the reason I went for SB instead of any of the other systems. The actual implementation of LMS may have left something to desire in the stability department though.

simbo
2013-04-19, 07:02
LMS is the best music server software out there.

Just install it and forget it.

It's extremely stable and easy to use.

No, I'm not kidding.
How ironic... I love it because it's infinitely tweakable! ;-)

BJW
2013-04-20, 02:26
right right... its so great, its dead!

smell the coffee fellas, and stop drinking the kool aid.

toby10
2013-04-20, 03:31
right right... its so great, its dead!

smell the coffee fellas, and stop drinking the kool aid.

You have numerous other players to choose from for what you describe, it's called DLNA. Of course, when you make everything so generic where "everything works with everything" in regards to music streaming hardware/software you must dumb it down to the basic standard. DLNA as a standard is very lacking in features and functions. That is why SB users (and I presume yourself) came to the SB idea in the first place, to have access to the features and functions NOT found in other player formats (like DLNA). So it sounds like you want SB features & functions via DLNA, that aint gonna happen.

SB hardware is indeed dead from Logitech. But not because it wasn't a universal player for DLNA servers.

Many community members do smell the coffee. That is why they are brewing up players and online server software to maintain much of the SB features and functions you we want and cannot find in the universal players out there.

erland
2013-04-20, 04:35
Let's just face it, people listens to music in different ways.

Some people only listens to music in front of their computer and doesn't see an issue to have to goto the computer to change track, it give them a lot of flexibility and there are plenty of systems which supports these kind of users, like WMP, iTunes, Winamp, ...

There are other people who only listens to music through their headphones connected to their smart phone, mainly because they have different taste than the other people in the family and it just works best if everyone listens through headphones and have the music on their smart phones/MP3 player. These people will just use apps on their smart phone and possibly have a bluetooth/AirPlay speaker which they sometimes use to get the music out in the room.

Finally, there are people who want to enjoy music either in a dedicated listening room, around the whole house or even in the garden, all without being forced to sit in front of a TV or computer screen. For these people systems like Squeezebox/Sonos is the perfect solution.

These are all very different categories and all exists, some people belong to one of the categories others belong to multiple categories dependent on situation, but there isn't a solution that fits everyone at all times. Sonos/Squeezebox fits some people but for other people these systems are just a big frustration and a lot of struggling. Personally, I'm a Squeezebox/Sonos kind of guy so anything that requires me to control the music via a computer screen or TV isn't an option and neither is anything that only works if the smart phone contains all music files.

As side note, the ickStream Music Platform (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStream-Music-Platform) is designed so it can potentially work in all the above scenarios, it just needs some third party developers who are interested to develop/integrate it with the necessary apps. Time will tell if this will be the case or not.

Triode
2013-04-20, 08:36
My transporter (and Squeezebox) are not able to read some Pro Tools 24-bit wav files due to some field in the header. They won't even see the files as legitimate WAVs, which is sad, because the software should be smart enough to present the file as a playable candidate. It has sample rate and wordlength information, etc. I even know what the field is if anyone is still working on the server software. Is development basically stopped?


What is the actual problem with the wav header - what platform (OS) are you using?

Its not clear what continued support Logitech will provide, but this is really a feature enhancement not a support of the underlying LMS software for critical issues. That said, some of the community projects are relying on LMS and hence enhancements or perhaps community supported plugins which help add new features are viable.

Going back to the actual problem - do you have a view of what the files header looks like?

Howard Passman
2013-05-05, 10:53
I've enjoyed my SB's for many years now, but it wasn't always so. I started out with the Duet and just about went nuts trying to get it all to work. I stuck with it and went from there to the Boom, Radio, Touch and Transporter. I love them all and have music all over the house.

I feel the product was priced o.k., but was too complicated for most folks. It seems simple enough to me now, but every time I would try and get someone interested, their eyes would roll back and that would be it.

Maybe, it should have been designed to be as simple as iTunes/iPod and then have the ability to "unlock" it to make it more like what we're used to. That way the average Joe could buy one of their products and use it immediately without having to do anything other than load the software on a PC. Then if the user wanted to go deeper and add features they could "unlock" the software and have a ball. My son, who is extremely bright just doesn't get the bother just to listen to music. Some people, no matter how savy, just don't care for this type of device, so it should be made to cater to them also.

Expand your market. That's always the name of the game in business...err, sucessful business.

Squeezed_Rotel
2013-05-05, 12:36
I've enjoyed my SB's for many years now, but it wasn't always so. I started out with the Duet and just about went nuts trying to get it all to work. I stuck with it and went from there to the Boom, Radio, Touch and Transporter. I love them all and have music all over the house.

I feel the product was priced o.k., but was too complicated for most folks. It seems simple enough to me now, but every time I would try and get someone interested, their eyes would roll back and that would be it.

Maybe, it should have been designed to be as simple as iTunes/iPod and then have the ability to "unlock" it to make it more like what we're used to. That way the average Joe could buy one of their products and use it immediately without having to do anything other than load the software on a PC. Then if the user wanted to go deeper and add features they could "unlock" the software and have a ball. My son, who is extremely bright just doesn't get the bother just to listen to music. Some people, no matter how savy, just don't care for this type of device, so it should be made to cater to them also.

Expand your market. That's always the name of the game in business...err, sucessful business.

There already is iTunes/iPod/iPad. Why do we need another product like that?
Many folks listen to music, some "really listen" to music and you can't stream flac or other lossless codecs with iThings.
This is and should stay a niche audiophile product imo. I hate all things mainstream, dumbed down for intake by the mass market. I like the uniqueness of the current (old now) products and the slight challenges that come with it. I have learned much about networs, routers, headless severs, RDP, simply by owning these wonderful SlimDevices. IMHO.