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castalla
2013-03-07, 03:09
I always thought Pause a radio stream worked effectively as a mute ... I notice now for the first time that in fact it does actually pause the stream. Has it always been like this? Or am I losing the plot?

Mnyb
2013-03-07, 04:31
I always thought Pause a radio stream worked effectively as a mute ... I notice now for the first time that in fact it does actually pause the stream. Has it always been like this? Or am I losing the plot?

The buffered time gets really long for lossy formats I would not be surprised if the player buffer holds over a minute , try stop instead orf pause then i think the stream will reinitiate .

castalla
2013-03-07, 04:49
The buffered time gets really long for lossy formats I would not be surprised if the player buffer holds over a minute , try stop instead orf pause then i think the stream will reinitiate .

There's no Stop on Touch or Squeezeplay ....

toby10
2013-03-07, 05:28
There's no Stop on Touch or Squeezeplay ....

Touch: Press & hold PAUSE, this becomes a Stop. No idea on SqueezePlay

bpa
2013-03-07, 05:41
When you pasuse a stream - the TCP connection stays up. Most radio stations (especially live/continuous vs short/fxied length programs) will reset the TCP connection after x minutes if no traffic movemment is detected and so a few minutes of the stream may remain in the buffer. Some stations do nor seem to reset the TCP connection and so the pause seems to work for a long time.

Mnyb
2013-03-07, 05:52
There's no Stop on Touch or Squeezeplay ....


Touch: Press & hold PAUSE, this becomes a Stop. No idea on SqueezePlay

Yes stop is holding pause , and the ir remote for Touch also has stop . Whern holding pause long enough you see a stop symbol instead of a pause symbol .

On local files the difference is that a stopped track starts from the begining and pause is pause .

castalla
2013-03-07, 06:02
Yes stop is holding pause , and the ir remote for Touch also has stop . Whern holding pause long enough you see a stop symbol instead of a pause symbol .

On local files the difference is that a stopped track starts from the begining and pause is pause .

No Stop on my Touch remote .... only Pause button

Mnyb
2013-03-07, 06:26
No Stop on my Touch remote .... only Pause button

Hold pause button , sorry forgot that no squeeze remote has stop button :)

castalla
2013-03-07, 06:29
Thanks for the info ... long pause = stop. Got it!

epoch1970
2013-03-09, 07:03
When you pasuse a stream - the TCP connection stays up. Most radio stations (especially live/continuous vs short/fxied length programs) will reset the TCP connection after x minutes if no traffic movemment is detected and so a few minutes of the stream may remain in the buffer. Some stations do nor seem to reset the TCP connection and so the pause seems to work for a long time.
Would be really nice if the server could handle a ring buffer. But then I guess this doesn't go too well with radio stations owners since one big use case is skipping on commercials…

bpa
2013-03-09, 07:50
Would be really nice if the server could handle a ring buffer. But then I guess this doesn't go too well with radio stations owners since one big use case is skipping on commercials…

Most stations are played direct to player with no involvement of the server except in the case of transcoding or sync. If you were to make all traffic go through the server (which would might mean more powerful servers are needed and more local network bandwidth), then you could do a ring buffer but you might as well provide a PVR type functionality and save the stream to disk rather than hold it in memory.

Mnyb
2013-03-09, 09:11
Most stations are played direct to player with no involvement of the server except in the case of transcoding or sync. If you were to make all traffic go through the server (which would might mean more powerful servers are needed and more local network bandwidth), then you could do a ring buffer but you might as well provide a PVR type functionality and save the stream to disk rather than hold it in memory.

That sounds like a cool plugin idea ? You can already use the server for proxying , so next logical step would be a " time shift " plugin that with a player option turns pause to a real pause with user setable buffer size 1min 15min 2hours or whatnot and some further option to record and store a pre-selectable time of the now playing or a favorite for later listening .

bpa
2013-03-09, 09:44
That sounds like a cool plugin idea ? You can already use the server for proxying , so next logical step would be a " time shift " plugin that with a player option turns pause to a real pause with user setable buffer size 1min 15min 2hours or whatnot and some further option to record and store a pre-selectable time of the now playing or a favorite for later listening .

It's a lot a of work if server has to save the audio stream as there issues about starting/stopping streams (e.g. different stream types/different headers/ time estimation or should all streams be transcoded) and also ensuring cross platform. A few years ago, I worked out it would be easy to do "time shift" using VLC to play a stream - however there is still a lot of work handling UI (i.e. SB3 and Web UI to mapping FFW/REW to VLC) and getting exact time to FFW / REW. Then it was complicated by an additional UI of Touch/Radio.

Mnyb
2013-03-09, 09:53
It's a lot a of work if server has to save the audio stream as there issues about starting/stopping streams (e.g. different stream types/different headers/ time estimation or should all streams be transcoded) and also ensuring cross platform. A few years ago, I worked out it would be easy to do "time shift" using VLC to play a stream - however there is still a lot of work handling UI (i.e. SB3 and Web UI to mapping FFW/REW to VLC) and getting exact time to FFW / REW. Then it was complicated by an additional UI of Touch/Radio.

Supose someone have to be really really motivated to do it , maybe not you :) niether me ,I cant code and my squeezebox use is 10% online 90% my own files .

OT My online use is actually going up due to the smartmix plugin it is better than me to find tracks on spotify and deezer who have such boring interfaces that I do not often bother with them.

epoch1970
2013-03-09, 11:41
Most stations are played direct to player with no involvement of the server except in the case of transcoding or sync. If you were to make all traffic go through the server (which would might mean more powerful servers are needed and more local network bandwidth), then you could do a ring buffer but you might as well provide a PVR type functionality and save the stream to disk rather than hold it in memory.

If I understand our near future correctly, this will not be true anymore. There is fantastic work on the player side (soft and hard) being done right now, but perhaps sanctifying a server package wouldn't hurt. A *Plug or something like it + an adequate version of SBS…

Actually this server thing is a question I have. Not for me, I don't use mysb.com much and I do have a server. But I have other "customers". Priority #1, my parents are now up to 3 Booms and 1 Classic, and although there is an SBS installed somewhere they rely 99.999% on mysb.com.
I'm ready to give them a small server appliance to keep radio running somehow (they're listening to a handful of fav radios) but I'd rather apply a repeatable solution, with updates consisting (by and large) in reloading a new version of a distro. I can already see 3 or 4 households queuing behind my parent's and asking for a solution the day mysb.com shuts down.

mikael_b
2013-03-10, 08:30
Most stations are played direct to player with no involvement of the server except in the case of transcoding or sync. If you were to make all traffic go through the server (which would might mean more powerful servers are needed and more local network bandwidth), then you could do a ring buffer but you might as well provide a PVR type functionality and save the stream to disk rather than hold it in memory.

already have this functionality, both on iThings and Androids, up to two hours can be saved, you can pause any livestream, rewind or fastforward it. You can also program recordings and save for later listening. Maybe the memory is to limited on a Radio but on the Touch you could save to a usb-stick and not involve the server?

Mikael

bpa
2013-03-10, 09:25
already have this functionality, both on iThings and Androids, up to two hours can be saved, you can pause any livestream, rewind or fastforward it. You can also program recordings and save for later listening. Maybe the memory is to limited on a Radio but on the Touch you could save to a usb-stick and not involve the server?

Sure this faciity has been available on other radio players but we are talking about an Squeezebix context
1. Functionality is similar axcross all types of player SB3, Transporter, Radiop and Touch. You are limiting to Touch (Radio doesn;t have enough memory) when not running mini LMS.
2. FF/REW controls are done by the server ie. LMS or mysb.com not by the player. If done by player then time estimation has to be done by player and then communicated to server - lots of new work.
3. Sync will not be possible if done on a per player basis.

mikael_b
2013-03-10, 10:03
Sure this faciity has been available on other radio players but we are talking about an Squeezebix context
1. Functionality is similar axcross all types of player SB3, Transporter, Radiop and Touch. You are limiting to Touch (Radio doesn;t have enough memory) when not running mini LMS.
2. FF/REW controls are done by the server ie. LMS or mysb.com not by the player. If done by player then time estimation has to be done by player and then communicated to server - lots of new work.
3. Sync will not be possible if done on a per player basis.

No problem if it works across the whole Squeezebox line, and sync is necessary for me.
And I always run LMS so the need for a server is not an issue for me.
But, as TuneIn radio is the internet radio player for the SBoxes today, and is available for some other platforms with this functionality, I thought maybe they (tunein) could be talked into making a LMS compatible version. Maybe that is a lot of work for them and the SBox line is a dead market with no expected revenues.
If someone comes up with this as a plugin I'm all for it.

Mikael

epoch1970
2013-03-10, 10:59
you might as well provide a PVR type functionality and save the stream to disk rather than hold it in memory.
I think my mom would like that. She's listening to radio on the Boom, but some listen-again programs are only available on the web. So she has to listen to them on the Mac, complicated and not whole-house… If recording was an option I'm sure she'd use that immediately.