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cynic-al
2013-02-03, 04:22
I've ripped all my music to Apple lossless MPEG-4/.m4a files, my squeezeboxes (touch and radio) played both fine while the files were on a pc but I moved them to NAS and I can't work how to get them to play, or whether they'll play at all.

I think I need to get squeezecenter to compress them before sending to the player, which defeats the purpose of having lossless.

Is there anything I can do or do I have to re-rip to FLAC? (which would mean using different music software to itunes, which I'm used to. I tried something else and it took ages to rip!)

bpa
2013-02-03, 04:37
What player do you have ?
What type of NAS do you have as depending on player you may need some support apps.
There are also some versions of ALAC files are incompatible with LMS streaming and cannot be played. In these cases, all it requires is to use the appropriate tools to create compatible ALAC files.

Compression and lossles are not contradictory. Apple lossless is a compressed lossless format like Flac. If necessary LMS will convert ALAC into Flac to it can be played and there is no loss of data as the expanded audio is a exact bit copy of the original.

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 04:40
I have a touch and a radio and a ZyXEL 310.

The files aren't ALAC (Unless that stands for Apple Lossless Something Something?)...and they played ok from PC HD

kidstypike
2013-02-03, 04:47
I have a touch and a radio and a ZyXEL 310.

The files aren't ALAC (Unless that stands for Apple Lossless Something Something?)...and they played ok from PC HD

You need to go to Logitech Media Server > Settings > Basic Settings, and change the music folder to the NAS location, click apply, then do a clear and rescan.

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 04:59
Thanks - it's scanning as I type!

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 06:29
Well that didn't work!

kidstypike
2013-02-03, 06:54
Well that didn't work!

What didn't work?
Did the scanner scan your music library on the NAS?
Or you just can't play the files?

A little detail would help.

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 06:59
LMS completed the scan but the players still tell me they can't play the file type.

pippin
2013-02-03, 07:08
It's the old ALAC configuration issue.
The problem is that the Zyxel can't transcode ALAC and while at least the Touch could play it natively, the default server configuration doesn't support native ALAC playback but REQUIRES transcoding.

They obviously did this to work around issue with the native ALAC playback but with hindsight it was a very bad decision because all NAS manufacturers just keep that default configuration, unnecessarily breaking ALAC playback. Would have been better to keep the option around and just making transcoding the default setting.

The only solution is to SSH/telnet into the NAS and change the "convert.conf" file manually. I had an iPeng user doing this with his Zyxel and it worked.
For him the files were under


/i-data/2658306c/.zyxel/zy-pkgs/gui/SqueezeCenter/convert.conf
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/zyxel/pkg/SqueezeCenter/convert.conf
/usr/local/zy-pkgs/gui/SqueezeCenter/convert.conf

I believe the first and the last one are the same and I'd try the last one first, don't know which one he finally edited.

You can use



sudo vi /usr/local/zy-pkgs/gui/SqueezeCenter/convert.conf

To edit that but please make sure to read up on how vi works, first, or you will not get out of it again :)

Mnyb
2013-02-03, 07:15
It's the old ALAC configuration issue.
The problem is that the Zyxel can't transcode ALAC and while at least the Touch could play it natively, the default server configuration doesn't support native ALAC playback but REQUIRES transcoding.

They obviously did this to work around issue with the native ALAC playback but with hindsight it was a very bad decision because all NAS manufacturers just keep that default configuration, unnecessarily breaking ALAC playback. Would have been better to keep the option around and just making transcoding the default setting.

The only solution is to SSH/telnet into the NAS and change the "convert.conf" file manually. I had an iPeng user doing this with his Zyxel and it worked.
For him the files were under

I believe the first and the last one are the same and I'd try the last one first, don't know which one he finally edited.

You can use



sudo vi /usr/local/zy-pkgs/gui/SqueezeCenter/convert.conf

To edit that but please make sure to read up on how vi works, first, or you will not get out of it again :)

Have they removed the setting from the web-UI ,maybe it's me running 7.8 that can set this with the web-UI and 7.8 players actually using the native playback

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 07:22
Thanks...looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me, I don't even know what vi stands for :mrgreen:

Julf
2013-02-03, 07:26
Thanks...looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me, I don't even know what vi stands for :mrgreen:

Vi (or vim, actually) is the standard text editor for Linux. Extremely efficient and powerful once you learn to use it properly. Only took me something like 5 years :)

pippin
2013-02-03, 07:31
Have they removed the setting from the web-UI ,maybe it's me running 7.8 that can set this with the web-UI and 7.8 players actually using the native playback

Oh... I should have mentioned WHAT to edit :)

It's never been there. The problem is that the ALAC native sections in convert.conf are commented out so you can't set it natively.
You will have to remove the "#" at the beginning of the ALAC configuration lines.

pippin
2013-02-03, 07:33
Vi (or vim, actually) is the standard text editor for Linux. Extremely efficient and powerful once you learn to use it properly. Only took me something like 5 years :)

vi is the biggest price of fail ever released but unfortunately it's the only thing that you can rely on being available on each ix device.

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 07:34
I have to use a linux editor? I'm on W7!

Mnyb
2013-02-03, 07:44
I have to use a linux editor? I'm on W7!

The editor is actually already installed on the NAS itself , so what you have to do is using putty or some other SSH client and connect with the NAS and you get a command prompt . You work from there .

The vi syntax is horrible ,just google up a site with instruction to keep as reference on the side while you are doing it

Julf
2013-02-03, 08:38
vi is the biggest price of fail ever released

Not true - you just haven't seen the other editors that existed at the time vi was released. Vi isn't too bad for a 37-year-old program, and is still very powerful, once you have gotten the commands down into the lower levels of your nervous system. :)

aubuti
2013-02-03, 09:02
I have to use a linux editor? I'm on W7!
Your NAS (and your LMS) is on Linux, not W7. And I second Mnyb's advice about having a vi "cheat sheet" available when editing.

pippin
2013-02-03, 10:13
Not true - you just haven't seen the other editors that existed at the time vi was released. Vi isn't too bad for a 37-year-old program, and is still very powerful, once you have gotten the commands down into the lower levels of your nervous system. :)

OK, admittedly, it might have been OK then. But there are other editors like nano that are much better suited for today's environments and could easily also be bundled with each distribution.
And I definitely do NOT want any vi commands get anywhere into my nervous system ;)

Julf
2013-02-03, 10:24
But there are other editors like nano that are much better suited for today's environments and could easily also be bundled with each distribution.

Better suited for casual use, definitely, but better suited for today's environments?

bpa
2013-02-03, 10:30
You could copy the file and edit it with Wordpad (not notepad) on w7 and thencopy back to NAS. I think Wordpad keeps the Unix line end chars.

reinholdk
2013-02-03, 11:04
Your NAS (and your LMS) is on Linux, not W7.

Maybe it's obvious to you all, but I couldn't find where he's saying that LMS is now running on the NAS. He said he moved the files...

pippin
2013-02-03, 11:48
Better suited for casual use, definitely, but better suited for today's environments?

Yes, because "today's environments" means you only use it for casual use when editing stuff on some embedded device. Like here.

Nobody writes source code using VI or even command line windows these days. It's the bare bones emergency editor and for that nano is much better suited than vi.

pippin
2013-02-03, 11:51
You could copy the file and edit it with Wordpad (not notepad) on w7 and thencopy back to NAS. I think Wordpad keeps the Unix line end chars.
Yea, but that's not really more simple, isn't it?
I mean... pretty much the only thing you really need to learn about vi is how to save a file and leave. OK, you will never ever find out on your own, but if you look it up, it's OK.
And then we are talking about removing two characters.


Maybe it's obvious to you all, but I couldn't find where he's saying that LMS is now running on the NAS. He said he moved the files...

Good point. I was assuming LMS runs on the Zyxel because that's what my customer did who had a similar problem. And actually because it fit so nicely with the problem description, most LMS versions running on NASs have this issue with ALAC.

bpa
2013-02-03, 12:00
Yea, but that's not really more simple, isn't it?
I mean... pretty much the only thing you really need to learn about vi is how to save a file and leave. OK, you will never ever find out on your own, but if you look it up, it's OK.
And then we are talking about removing two characters.
Nothing wrong with offfering another option. It has a measure of safety as the file is not copied back until user is happy. "vi" can be a bit of a culture shock for user who are used to GUIs.

Julf
2013-02-03, 12:35
Nobody writes source code using VI or even command line windows these days.

I beg to disagree. I am just so more productive with a proper shell, command-line git and vi than with those horrible IDEs...

aubuti
2013-02-03, 13:12
Maybe it's obvious to you all, but I couldn't find where he's saying that LMS is now running on the NAS. He said he moved the files...
You're right -- the OP has never said where he/she is running LMS.

So, is LMS running on the PC, the NAS, or the Touch?

pippin
2013-02-03, 14:03
Nothing wrong with offfering another option. It has a measure of safety as the file is not copied back until user is happy. "vi" can be a bit of a culture shock for user who are used to GUIs.

Yea. Ok, then maybe I was too lazy to also explain SCP

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 14:41
LMS is on the NAS (could it work if it was anywhere else?)

Thanks all, I may have a go at this, I may just re-rip to mp3 if it looks a 'mare!

I'm 44 & male so familiar with DOS from the distant past (not to say ZX81 machine code) so it won't be completely alien to me :D

aubuti
2013-02-03, 15:11
LMS is on the NAS (could it work if it was anywhere else?)

Thanks all, I may have a go at this, I may just re-rip to mp3 if it looks a 'mare!
Sure. You could run LMS on your pc and tell LMS that the music files are on your NAS. Also, that way it would the pc, not the NAS, that would be doing the decoding.

If you appreciate lossless, then don't re-rip to MP3. First, there is no need to re-rip at all, because your Apple Lossless files can be transcoded to another codec such as MP3 without digging out the CDs again. Second, if you can't get ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) to work, then there are other lossless formats that would work.

cynic-al
2013-02-03, 16:15
When I say re-rip to mp3 I mean from the ALACs so just leave the pc to it overnight or whatever. I'm doing this as a short term measure. If I can't get the ALACs playing I may re-rip but as I said above I tried another software and it took AGES to rip - itunes seems quick

I see what you mean re LMS on pc - but the whole point was to be able to switch pc off and so it's on the NAS.

garym
2013-02-04, 05:32
When I say re-rip to mp3 I mean from the ALACs so just leave the pc to it overnight or whatever. I'm doing this as a short term measure. If I can't get the ALACs playing I may re-rip but as I said above I tried another software and it took AGES to rip - itunes seems quick

I see what you mean re LMS on pc - but the whole point was to be able to switch pc off and so it's on the NAS.

itunes is quick because it is not doing SECURE ripping. Something like dbpoweramp or EAC or CUETOOLS is doing secure ripping. Although this can be pretty fast because of their use of ACCURATERIP. If you do decide to rerip you should review information on secure ripping tools (particularly the benefits of ACCURATERIP matching).

aubuti
2013-02-04, 06:56
When I say re-rip to mp3 I mean from the ALACs so just leave the pc to it overnight or whatever. I'm doing this as a short term measure. If I can't get the ALACs playing I may re-rip but as I said above I tried another software and it took AGES to rip - itunes seems quick

I see what you mean re LMS on pc - but the whole point was to be able to switch pc off and so it's on the NAS.
Well you can call it re-ripping, but it will only foster confusion about what it is you would really be doing, which is transcoding (converting from one codec to another).

If you want to get LMS running on the NAS so that you can switch off the pc then you have some choices to make.

First off, why is ALAC important to you? Do you need the files in ALAC for playing on some Apple-only hardware/software? If you don't really need ALAC, then you should consider transcoding (converting) the ALAC files to FLAC and be done with it. Also note that if you're only using ALAC to preserve compatibility with mobile devices like iPods, then you may be better off keeping a lossy copy of the library in MP3 or AAC for portable use, because you're unlikely to hear the benefits of lossless on that equipment and environment combination. There are reasonably easy-to-use tools for creating a parallel lossy library that you can use to sync with mobile devices. That's what I do: have one copy of my library in FLAC for home use and another in MP3 for portable use.

If you do need ALAC for some reason (eg, have iTunes feeding a good audio system), then you'll need to get LMS on the NAS configured to convert the files correctly to send to the Squeezeboxes. That may require learning new tools such as vi or scp or WinSCP, as well as learning exactly what edits you need. Doing the edits on a typical consumer NAS can be more of a headache because the manufacturer's "user-friendly" interface often makes it difficult to get at or manipulate important system files.

So for starters, why do you want the files in ALAC (keeping in mind that the sound quality of ALAC, FLAC, AIFF, and WAV should be identical)?

cynic-al
2013-02-04, 16:21
Thanks - I'm not too up on the lingo here.

I want to use ALAC so I don't have to re-rip or transcode, especially if it takes as long as it would appear to with dbpoweramp (I'll look into secure ripping), but I really don't care about the format as I have no apple devices, I just want lossless for home and mp3 for phone. I started off with ALAC as itunes is easy to use and it worked when I had my music on my pc not NAS.

aubuti
2013-02-04, 16:54
How big is your library? If it's any size then re-ripping (that is, reconverting all of the physical CDs to FLAC or another codec) will take a lot of time. If your CDs were in good condition, then the rips in iTunes are likely okay. If they had errors (scratches or other defects) then iTunes will have glossed over them, and you may not even notice where the audio is "wrong." A secure ripping program would have worked to get it right, reading and re-reading the disk as many times as needed, and that's what makes secure ripping a longer process.

On the other hand, even if your library is huge, transcoding from ALAC to FLAC will hardly take any of your time, even though it may take a lot of CPU time. With dBpoweramp you can set it up to transcode your whole library from ALAC to FLAC by clicking a few buttons, and then just go and live your life and check back in a few hours when it's done. Or a few days if it's a really big library. Then repeat the process to make MP3s from the ALACs or the FLACs. When you're done, delete the ALACs.

Try it out on a small portion of your library and I think you'll be convinced. Trying to use your current combination of ALAC plus this NAS plus Squeezeboxes when you have no compelling reason to be using ALAC is just beating your head against a brick wall.

cynic-al
2013-02-05, 00:26
cheers - yes that seems to be the way to go. Only 250cds or so but transcoding as you say goes on in the background. cds are in good nick.

Now to choose a program to do it!

aubuti
2013-02-05, 04:06
dBpweramp would be my first choice, followed by foobar2000. But there are many others that are also capable -- I think Media Monkey, J River, etc.

garym
2013-02-05, 05:04
dBpweramp would be my first choice, followed by foobar2000. But there are many others that are also capable -- I think Media Monkey, J River, etc.

+1. I use dbpa. Mostly if you are going to rerip, I'd rip to FLAC and I'd use a secure ripper that confirms match with ACCURATERIP.

petez69
2013-10-24, 04:56
+1. I use dbpa. Mostly if you are going to rerip, I'd rip to FLAC and I'd use a secure ripper that confirms match with ACCURATERIP.

test - sorry

maxwl
2013-11-15, 06:59
Hi all

I just got myself a new NAS320 and am running Squeezeserver from it.

I want to have a go at editing the 'convert.conf' file in order to play my .m4a files.

Being older I have lots of experience of DOS and did some work on Unix so I'm fine with using vi.

However my problem is trying to connect into the NAS. I have tried using putty by using the ip address of the NAS but I just get errors. It says 'connection refused.'.

I'm guessing this may be a password issue but I can't see anywhere to enter my password for the NAS on putty.

Any help appreciated or even some other simplier suggestions for connecting to the NAS to edit this file.

Thanks in advance
Max

aubuti
2013-11-15, 07:20
However my problem is trying to connect into the NAS. I have tried using putty by using the ip address of the NAS but I just get errors. It says 'connection refused.'.
Did you install LMS yourself, or did it come already installed? I'm guessing the latter. I'm not familiar with your particular NAS model, but most consumer-grade NASs do not allow user login to a terminal, and especially don't allow the root access you would need to edit files like convert.conf.

Perhaps a NAS320 user here can help, but if you haven't done so already, take a look at www.nas-central.org, including their forums, to see about getting login access.

Mnyb
2013-11-15, 07:26
yea besides editing the conversion settings , you have to figure out :

What kind of CPU and memory does it have :

is it even possible to run conversion on the NAS

Can you get the helper apps SoX and FLAC and FAAD2 (and some others ) running on that platform , they are usually in a binary folder inside the LMS install .

maxwl
2013-11-15, 07:49
Did you install LMS yourself, or did it come already installed? I'm guessing the latter. I'm not familiar with your particular NAS model, but most consumer-grade NASs do not allow user login to a terminal, and especially don't allow the root access you would need to edit files like convert.conf.

Yes Squeezeserver came preinstalled on the Zyxel. I just had to activate it. It works fine for MP3 files.

I'll have a look at nas-central.

Thanks for reply. Anyone else have any experience with the Zyxel?

Max

bpa
2013-11-15, 08:20
There should be no need to edit convert.conf file - it is already setup for m4a files.

You should not edit convert.conf files, if you want changes you should add custom-convert.conf and the changes will be retained between updates.

Mnyb
2013-11-15, 08:30
There should be no need to edit convert.conf file - it is already setup for m4a files.

You should not edit convert.conf files, if you want changes you should add custom-convert.conf and the changes will be retained between updates.

+1

Usually it is inactivated for a reason , so if it can do it usually just works .

If your lucky Zyxel just inactivated these option to have a package fitting all thier NAS boxes .

Have a look in file types setting in the web-UI ? maybe you just have to select some option .

But my hunch is that it can't do it

bpa
2013-11-15, 08:41
If the file-type setting show m4a/aac/apple lossless to be "disabled" then it means the transcoder faad2 and or flac are not installed. Changing the conf file won't fix this.