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gruntwolla
2012-12-19, 16:28
Hi all,
I've been doing a bit of research on the Olive One, and maybe I'm being naive, but this product looks like it could be everything the Squeezebox should have evovved into. Has anyone else here had a good look at their website, and if so what are the potential negatives, if any?

garym
2012-12-19, 16:41
Hi all,
I've been doing a bit of research on the Olive One, and maybe I'm being naive, but this product looks like it could be everything the Squeezebox should have evovved into. Has anyone else here had a good look at their website, and if so what are the potential negatives, if any?

only glanced, but how will this work in terms of allowing access to premium streaming services (siriusXM, mog, spotify, etc.). And maybe missing something, but I don't see a digital out from the player (no S/PDIF, Toslink or USB). So how would one drive a DAC? Also, seemed to be designed to output analog to speakers. What about something to output audio to your preamp (or better yet, > DAC > Preamp). Seems like a nice replacement for a BOOM that can drive attached speakers, but doesn't seem to be a replacement for a TOUCH. Again, just looked at basic tech specs but didn't dig deep.

gruntwolla
2012-12-19, 17:10
only glanced, but how will this work in terms of allowing access to premium streaming services (siriusXM, mog, spotify, etc.). And maybe missing something, but I don't see a digital out from the player (no S/PDIF, Toslink or USB). So how would one drive a DAC? Also, seemed to be designed to output analog to speakers. What about something to output audio to your preamp (or better yet, > DAC > Preamp). Seems like a nice replacement for a BOOM that can drive attached speakers, but doesn't seem to be a replacement for a TOUCH. Again, just looked at basic tech specs but didn't dig deep.

Hi Garym - that was a quick reply! On the Olive one website http://www.indiegogo.com/OliveONE?c=comments a few people have been raising similar issues, and I think this reply from the development team partly answers your question

Hey Benoit, pas de probl�me! ONE will have digital/analog outputs and we can look into the EThernet option (might not be so easy). Greetings to France from sunny San Francisco!

Seems to me that one of these with a decent pair of speakers would be a match for a pretty expensive hi fi. Another benefit for me at least is the integrated HD of up to 2.5G, which means the main unit would act as a server for another 2 ( or more ) units elsewhere in the house. I realise that your music collection is too large for that scenario, but it looks pretty cool for those of us with less than 6000 CD's worth of lossless tracks!.
Regards,
Trev

garym
2012-12-19, 17:16
Hi Garym - that was a quick reply! On the Olive one website http://www.indiegogo.com/OliveONE?c=comments a few people have been raising similar issues, and I think this reply from the development team partly answers your question

Hey Benoit, pas de probl�me! ONE will have digital/analog outputs and we can look into the EThernet option (might not be so easy). Greetings to France from sunny San Francisco!

Seems to me that one of these with a decent pair of speakers would be a match for a pretty expensive hi fi. Another benefit for me at least is the integrated HD of up to 2.5G, which means the main unit would act as a server for another 2 ( or more ) units elsewhere in the house. I realise that your music collection is too large for that scenario, but it looks pretty cool for those of us with less than 6000 CD's worth of lossless tracks!.
Regards,
Trev

gruntwolla, All in the eye of the beholder of course but I don't think I'd want to replace my preamp/amp with just one of these. Not that I'm not pleased to see work progressing on stuff like the OLIVE. But I'd definitely want something that was simply a network music player and could FEED my DAC/preamp/amp, etc.

And another question is that if these are going to be DLNA/upnp based, can they do gapless (as most DLNA can't) and can they do perfectly synched multiroom players?

p.s. only 1/2 my CDs are lossless...still on my journey to rerip my CDs to FLAC and I'm not close to being done yet. ;-)

gruntwolla
2012-12-19, 17:16
Hi Garym - that was a quick reply! On the Olive one website http://www.indiegogo.com/OliveONE?c=comments a few people have been raising similar issues, and I think this reply from the development team partly answers your question

Hey Benoit, pas de probl�me! ONE will have digital/analog outputs and we can look into the EThernet option (might not be so easy). Greetings to France from sunny San Francisco!

Seems to me that one of these with a decent pair of speakers would be a match for a pretty expensive hi fi. Another benefit for me at least is the integrated HD of up to 2.5G, which means the main unit would act as a server for another 2 ( or more ) units elsewhere in the house. I realise that your music collection is too large for that scenario, but it looks pretty cool for those of us with less than 6000 CD's worth of lossless tracks!.
Regards,
Trev

Edit HD of up to 2.5TB

garym
2012-12-19, 17:17
Edit HD of up to 2.5TB

that's quite good I think.

toby10
2012-12-20, 02:54
This was discussed a couple weeks ago in here, it's a more a Sonos design than SB.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97539-Is-Olive-One-the-answer&highlight=olive

Digital outs are a "maybe, we'll consider it down the road". Hopefully they'll add a player with no amp with digital outs. I don't need any more amps. ;)

erland
2012-12-20, 21:10
Hi all,
I've been doing a bit of research on the Olive One, and maybe I'm being naive, but this product looks like it could be everything the Squeezebox should have evovved into. Has anyone else here had a good look at their website, and if so what are the potential negatives, if any?

I haven't looked into Olive One in detail, but generally I think it's important to not just look at the hardware but also look at the software.

The Squeezebox hardware might be great but if it weren't combined with LMS and mysqueezebox.com it would just be another music streaming devices that didn't differ much from the other devices avaialble on the market, it's the software that makes the Squeezebox stand out together with the fact that it has hardware suitable for many different type of rooms.

If you are only looking for a device in the main listening room which is able to play an album/song with excellent audio quality after selecting on, it might be ok to focus primarily on the hardware, but if you have a large collection that requires better browsing abilities or you want smart playlists or you need to be able to play music also in other kind of rooms and maybe even synchronize audio between multiple devices, it's important to also take a look at the software part of the setup. My feeling from what I've seen on the market is that it's often the software part that's lacking compared to a Squeezebox setup.

gruntwolla
2012-12-20, 21:35
I haven't looked into Olive One in detail, but generally I think it's important to not just look at the hardware but also look at the software.

The Squeezebox hardware might be great but if it weren't combined with LMS and mysqueezebox.com it would just be another music streaming devices that didn't differ much from the other devices avaialble on the market, it's the software that makes the Squeezebox stand out together with the fact that it has hardware suitable for many different type of rooms.

If you are only looking for a device in the main listening room which is able to play an album/song with excellent audio quality after selecting on, it might be ok to focus primarily on the hardware, but if you have a large collection that requires better browsing abilities or you want smart playlists or you need to be able to play music also in other kind of rooms and maybe even synchronize audio between multiple devices, it's important to also take a look at the software part of the setup. My feeling from what I've seen on the market is that it's often the software part that's lacking compared to a Squeezebox setup.

Excellent reply thanks. Incidentally I thought the Olive One might be of interest to someone like yourself as the software is open source and they are looking for developers....

gruntwolla
2012-12-20, 21:44
I emailed Olive last night re gapless play back etc, and here's their reply ...

Hello tgoward2011,

yes we will support gapless playback. Regarding multi-room synchronized playback: we probably wont use UPnP for this, but more about this later .

Mnyb
2012-12-20, 21:47
I haven't looked into Olive One in detail, but generally I think it's important to not just look at the hardware but also look at the software.

The Squeezebox hardware might be great but if it weren't combined with LMS and mysqueezebox.com it would just be another music streaming devices that didn't differ much from the other devices avaialble on the market, it's the software that makes the Squeezebox stand out together with the fact that it has hardware suitable for many different type of rooms.

If you are only looking for a device in the main listening room which is able to play an album/song with excellent audio quality after selecting on, it might be ok to focus primarily on the hardware, but if you have a large collection that requires better browsing abilities or you want smart playlists or you need to be able to play music also in other kind of rooms and maybe even synchronize audio between multiple devices, it's important to also take a look at the software part of the setup. My feeling from what I've seen on the market is that it's often the software part that's lacking compared to a Squeezebox setup.

That's it .

many of the features we have are taken as a given by many squeezebox user ,not only the general browsing and playing experience but also some more mundane functions like gapless playback replay-gain sync and wide fileformat support .
I had some friends using thier game consol for music ,just a plain list on the TV ? or try browsing an usb stick with your blueray player ,that's the kind of software experience you could end up with

toby10
2012-12-21, 02:33
I emailed Olive last night ..... here's their reply .... "Regarding multi-room synchronized playback: we probably won’t use UPnP for this, but more about this later" ….

Much of the information about their (proposed) player is very vague and why I think many SB users cannot really say yet if Olive One is a possible SB replacement. Not knocking Olive, it's an unfinished project still in development, so Olive themselves don't even know yet what the final hardware might be.

garym
2012-12-21, 05:16
I emailed Olive last night re gapless play back etc, and here's their reply ...

Hello tgoward2011,

yes we will support gapless playback. Regarding multi-room synchronized playback: we probably wont use UPnP for this, but more about this later .

You might also suggest to them that the player support ReplayGain tags (album or track) and even better use something like SmartGain in the LMS (that is, if one is playing an entire album, it uses ALBUM RG tag and if one is playing songs from different albums (random or playlist) it uses TRACK RG tag, and all this is done automatically. And of course one can select to NOT use RG tags.

gruntwolla
2012-12-21, 13:22
You might also suggest to them that the player support ReplayGain tags (album or track) and even better use something like SmartGain in the LMS (that is, if one is playing an entire album, it uses ALBUM RG tag and if one is playing songs from different albums (random or playlist) it uses TRACK RG tag, and all this is done automatically. And of course one can select to NOT use RG tags.

I think I'm getting the point. Many of us later converts to Squeezebox just don't realise how much work has been done over the years to the software, and tend to take it for granted ( see examples in the quote above). Oh well, at least everything still works at present. I just worry that if any Squeezebox replacement is born from these forums, it is likely to be a geek driven exercise, which will make it even more of a niche product. No criticism of geeks implied or intended, by the way.

garym
2012-12-21, 13:27
I think I'm getting the point. Many of us later converts to Squeezebox just don't realise how much work has been done over the years to the software, and tend to take it for granted ( see examples in the quote above). Oh well, at least everything still works at present. I just worry that if any Squeezebox replacement is born from these forums, it is likely to be a geek driven exercise, which will make it even more of a niche product. No criticism of geeks implied or intended, by the way.

I'm just thinking out loud, but it probably needs to be a niche product for me. I'd pay triple the price for a squeezebox-like quality product that had the software to back it up (i.e., not some sort of hacked DLNA/upnp).

Those that just want simple will end up with appleSomething that can stream to their home system via their ithing and/or an appleTV or something. And more power to them. It works (mostly), it is simple, and you don't need to understand much of anything to use it. Even the music lovers I know get a very glazed look when I try to explain how my system works. And don't even bother trying to talk about gapless, ReplayGain, perfect sync across different players, automatic downconverting of > 16/44.1 files so that players all work, etc.

erland
2012-12-21, 17:05
I just worry that if any Squeezebox replacement is born from these forums, it is likely to be a geek driven exercise, which will make it even more of a niche product. No criticism of geeks implied or intended, by the way.

I think it depends on the driving force behind it:
- If it's a free community developed product, I think you are right, it's likely going to be technical, very customizable and flexable and not necessarily easy to use.
- If it's a commercial product which some people in the community has been involved in developing, it does not have to become a geek product, in this case it's economics that drives it and important music listening features are included while geek only features will be dropped. Hopefully the experience from Squeezebox usage can still result in a good prioritization so features that are important for music listening are still included even if it would probably be a lot less customizable than the Squeezebox is today.

I personally don't think a free community developed product is the best long term solution for most of us. I think it would be preferred if it's somewhat business driven, both for long term survival and to make it possible to do the prioritization right.

erland
2012-12-21, 17:33
I'm just thinking out loud, but it probably needs to be a niche product for me. I'd pay triple the price for a squeezebox-like quality product that had the software to back it up (i.e., not some sort of hacked DLNA/upnp).

Those that just want simple will end up with appleSomething that can stream to their home system via their ithing and/or an appleTV or something. And more power to them. It works (mostly), it is simple, and you don't need to understand much of anything to use it. Even the music lovers I know get a very glazed look when I try to explain how my system works. And don't even bother trying to talk about gapless, ReplayGain, perfect sync across different players, automatic downconverting of > 16/44.1 files so that players all work, etc.

The question is just if it needs to be niche or if it's enough that the people behind it really understands music listening so they can do the right prioritization. Personally I suspect there is something in-between niche and mass market, if it's more software oriented than hardware oriented it's also easier to find a common ground, for many companies in the market today it's often the hardware that result in that they have to choose to either be niche or be mass market.

DLNA/UPnP is an example of a software driven approach, where you can get mass market hardware and high quality hardware and make it work in the same system depending on your needs, the problem with DLNA/UPnP is just that parts of that standard is too generic and more optimized for video usage than advanced music listening and whole house audio. So while the media server part of the DLNA/UPnP standard works for music, the rendering and control point parts have problems related to music listening which are hard to solve and make compatible between different hardware manufacturers.

In hardware oriented solutions, like Apple, Sonos or solutions by Hifi manufacturers, you are typically restricted to a certain market segment by the hardware which makes them prioritize software features to be included based on the hardware market segment they have chosen to place themselves in. Due to this, these systems is rarely good both for audiophiles, whole house audio, advanced music listening and ease of use, typically the hardware forces them to select one or another. It's also hard for hardware oriented solutions to try to market a single brand both to audiophiles and mass market users, usually you need to select one type of users because audiophiles will generally not respect the brand if it's also sold to mass market users. Audiophiles is also a complex segment because the marketing is controlled by magazines and HiFi stores, so even if you would be able to attract the actual audiophile users, it might be hard to market the product unless you also attract correct magazines and HiFi store owners. I believe Slim Devices had some issues related to this when they tried to get respect for the Transporter among audiophiles.

I think Olive One feels more hardware oriented than software oriented, so I suspect they are going to get themselves into similar issues as Apple, Sonos and other HiFi manufacturers have, but it's a bit early to tell this for sure at the current stage. I would also be a bit worried that their community funded/designed approach, which is more software oriented, is going to make it hard for them to do the right prioritization. It can easily turn them into a geek product that won't get them the necessary volumes to survive on longer terms.

Logitech tried to do both high-end niche products like Transporter and Squeezebox Touch and low end mass market products like Squeezebox Radio, which covered a very large spectrum of users, their problem was just that their management never really fully understood music listening and whole house audio and this is clearly illustrated with the priorities they made when they released the UE Smart Radio concept. They did understand part of the problem and removed some complexity related to server switching, but the way they prioritized features to simplify the device clearly shows that they didn't understand music listening and releasing it with a single device showed that they didn't understand whole house audio. All this resulted in a simple internet radio kind of product and still trying to sell this to a price placed in the niche segment is not going to work, if the UE Smart Radio would cost $50 (or possibly up to $99) it would be a difference scenario, but at $179 people will expect it to do a lot more than it currently does.

Still, it's going to be interesting to see how the market evolves during the next 6-12 months, if we are lucky we might get a lot of new creative products who tries to take a part of the market segment which Logitech no longer fills. I think it's probably going to take a year or two before we see the result, because companies trying to take a part of the market probably started to adjust their strategies after the Logitech shutdown decision and it's going to take some time for them to develop the products before they are ready to announce them. New actors will likely have a bigger chance to create something fresh because they are going to be more open minded and won't get stuck in old principles used by existing products, the challenge for them is just going to be to convince us that they will still be here five years in the future.

GeeJay
2012-12-21, 22:10
Well, I for one will be watching Olive One closely over the next year. I like the approach: open source, community input, multi-room capability, decent price point. Let's face it, the odds that another product comes along that does everything Squeeze does, and more, is highly unlikely. I'll be satisfied if someone gets all the really important things right, then takes it in a different direction that makes the thing viable in the market.

gruntwolla
2012-12-22, 18:59
Well, I for one will be watching Olive One closely over the next year. I like the approach: open source, community input, multi-room capability, decent price point. Let's face it, the odds that another product comes along that does everything Squeeze does, and more, is highly unlikely. I'll be satisfied if someone gets all the really important things right, then takes it in a different direction that makes the thing viable in the market.

+1

ps Are you going to preorder one, or are you just going to watch like me and pay more next July!!

Jokke
2012-12-23, 01:06
If there is no analog output to a regular hifi, it is a no-go for me. What is the benefit of a built in amp, for an audiophile network player ? The 32w amp can never drive my b&w speakers.

Mnyb
2012-12-23, 02:41
If there is no analog output to a regular hifi, it is a no-go for me. What is the benefit of a built in amp, for an audiophile network player ? The 32w amp can never drive my b&w speakers.

+1 you can also bet that the 32w switch-mode power is some creative specmanship probably less than 15 wpc ,wonder how much it really is , realistically it's like buying computer speakers 100w power for with a 15VA wallwart for two speakers 15/2/2 = 3,25w .

Amp are actually better not included or could be a plugin module , there are less demanding zones . or if they are smart diversify the product one model with amp no analog or digital out one without amp and analog and digital out . the one without amp could have smaller power supply too

GeeJay
2012-12-23, 06:31
+1

ps Are you going to preorder one, or are you just going to watch like me and pay more next July!!

I'll wait and see how it develops. If the software isn't any good, it doesn't matter how sexy the hardware is.

I'm still confused about the specs. The discussion here is that there doesn't appear to be a way to connect it to your hi-fi, but much of the marketing material leads one to a different conclusion. They're billing it both as a simple streaming device, or something that can be connected to an integrated speaker. I need to email the company and ask how they anticipate (or it they anticipate) users being able to use this with their stereos when they start shipping the devices next year.

GeeJay
2012-12-23, 14:14
Scratch that last post. A more thorough reading of the entire site reveals enough details that I understand the concerns raised here. You would think they would recognize the market for a unit that can be integrated into an existing stereo system, but apparently not.

garym
2012-12-23, 14:29
Scratch that last post. A more thorough reading of the entire site reveals enough details that I understand the concerns raised here. You would think they would recognize the market for a unit that can be integrated into an existing stereo system, but apparently not.

Agree. Seems like an obvious thing. But perhaps just a symptom of the dummying down of the market to only want something to link to their smartphone. None of the young people I know even own a preamp/amp or receiver. In my 20s, my stereo system cost more than my car (although neither was that great).

dyohn
2012-12-25, 13:20
IMO it needs digital outputs and analog line level outs. Until it does, it's just a Sonos knock-off, not a high-end music player solution.

http://www.myoliveone.com/Ones/tech_specs

garym
2012-12-25, 13:33
IMO it needs digital outputs and analog line level outs. Until it does, it's just a Sonos knock-off, not a high-end music player solution.

Agree. And even Sonos has digital outs and line level analog outs on some units.

dyohn
2012-12-28, 10:46
Yes, the Sonos Connect (Zoneplayer90) has digital outputs. But wouldn't I also need one of their Bridge devices since they seem to use a proprietary version of the 801.11.g/n networking protocol? A Zoneplayer will not just connect to an existing wireless network, will it? The Vortexbox includes the Sonos server software as well as the LMS...

aubuti
2012-12-28, 10:55
Afaiu, you don't necessarily need the Sonos Bridge device to establish their proprietary mesh network. Connecting any of their devices to your router via ethernet will establish the mesh wifi network. You only need the Bridge if your router location isn't convenient for a wired connection to a Sonos player. Or, I suppose, if you're one of those people who doesn't like to run ethernet even when the player is a few feet from the router.

garym
2012-12-28, 10:59
Yes, the Sonos Connect (Zoneplayer90) has digital outputs. But wouldn't I also need one of their Bridge devices since they seem to use a proprietary version of the 801.11.g/n networking protocol? A Zoneplayer will not just connect to an existing wireless network, will it? The Vortexbox includes the Sonos server software as well as the LMS...

Not sure about bridge. From reading i thought one only needed one player so long as it could be wired to your router. If not, then youd need the bridge next to router to feed the special wireless network connected to sonosplayer in location next to stereo in some other location. The vortexbox will feed a Sonos, but very different system. Sonos doesn't actually have a "server". The software runs on each player and just accesses files on a PC or nas.

dyohn
2012-12-28, 11:39
Thanks for the feedback. Yea, my music server is in a completely different area of the house than the SB3 that just died. Wireless to that room is the only option unless I want to engage in major wall de-construction to run cabling - which I do not. :) It's too bad AppleTV will not connect to LMS and requires iTunes running somewhere.

Maybe the rumors that the Olive device might become available in a version with digital outs (or direct analog since they do make great sounding DACs) will come true. Someday. But I need a solution now... damn you Logitech, you would have just sold another Squeeze device if you hadn't made the brainless decision to discontinue them.

aubuti
2012-12-28, 13:38
Thanks for the feedback. Yea, my music server is in a completely different area of the house than the SB3 that just died.
You may have misunderstood. The Sonos player needs to be wired to the router, not to your server/music source. Of course, it's also a good idea to have your server wired to your router. And if you can't wire a Sonos player to your router either, a Sonos Bridge costs all of $49 -- small peanuts in the grand scheme of things.


But I need a solution now... damn you Logitech, you would have just sold another Squeeze device if you hadn't made the brainless decision to discontinue them.
Or you could still buy a SB Touch or other SB. They are still available from various sources.

gruntwolla
2012-12-28, 20:41
Just to get back to the original question, I've been keeping an eye on the various requests/reccommendations etc that are being sent to the Olive One team regarding which features the Olive One should incorporate, and whilst it may well be too soon for this ( at present ) happy Squeezebox user to commit, it sure does seem like they're listening. Interestingly, a couple of Squeezebox users have committed cash to the project already. Suck it and see I guess.

olive_media
2013-01-02, 17:00
If there is no analog output to a regular hifi, it is a no-go for me. What is the benefit of a built in amp, for an audiophile network player ? The 32w amp can never drive my b&w speakers.

Hey there,

The ONE has a Class D amplifier with 2x32W into 8Ohm. As a general note: Class D amp output wattage cannot be compared to regular analog amps, as they are much more powerful and power efficient. We are driving some B&W Cm9 and 804Ds here in our office and they sound amazing.

Olive Team

olive_media
2013-01-02, 17:04
IMO it needs digital outputs and analog line level outs. Until it does, it's just a Sonos knock-off, not a high-end music player solution.

http://www.myoliveone.com/Ones/tech_specs

The ONE's going to be packing an internal Burr-Brown DACnot Sonos-like at all :-).

Mnyb
2013-01-02, 22:14
Hey there,

The ONE has a Class D amplifier with 2x32W into 8Ohm. As a general note: Class D amp output wattage cannot be compared to regular analog amps, as they are much more powerful and power efficient. We are driving some B&W Cm9 and 804Ds here in our office and they sound amazing.

Olive Team

No one watt is one watt ;) clas D amps are usually overspeced and performs worse than normal amps don't know about the olive case .

You got that they are more efficient but if two amps outputs 32 watt that's the same , the class d may use less juice from the power company to do this try the 804D with a large Bryson amp at > 250wpc and report back .

You can use low power amp into hard to drive speakers if the room is relatively small and if you don't play that loud that is not rocket science either .

garym
2013-01-03, 05:15
The ONE's going to be packing an internal Burr-Brown DAC–not Sonos-like at all :-).

I assume olive_media represents olive in some way. That's good...I'm happy to see you here. As you'll find, there are lots of people here that are serious about use of network music streamers in good (or great!) audio systems. I have often said I would pay 10 times what I paid for a SB TOUCH if it had the same or better functions/quality.

The Olive ONE looks like an interesting product. Sort of a SB Boom that you add your own speakers to. I'm sure there is a market for that. And I'd even want that as a *part* of a whole house system. However, I hope OLIVE is considering additional products, as the OLIVE ONE would not meet my key criteria. To summarize my criteria:

1. At least one type Player without amp/speakers that I can connect to my DAC via either S/PDIF coax, optical, or USB. Preferably all 3 options for digital out. Would also have built in DAC so that users can simply connect to preamp/amp with analog. That is, something like the Squeezebox TOUCH. (nice addition, ability to plug in cable for automatically turning on/off another component)
2. At least one type player that can serve as a table or bedside radio (with built in physical controls and display). That is, something like the Squeezebox Radio or Boom.
3. [ Nice, but not required] A very high quality networked player with built in high quality DAC, high quality build and components, all digital outs, analog outs, plus BALANCED analog outs. That is, something like the TRANSPORTER (nice addition, wired plug in cable for ability to turn on/off another component)
4. Possibility of perfect synching across different players in same network.
5. Support of many codecs (FLAC, mp3, m4a, AAC, ALAC, WAV, etc.).
6. Support of at least 24/96, 24/192 better.
7. Good implementation of digital volume control
8. Support of Gapless playback
9. Reasonable database management (must handle large libraries > 200,000 tracks)
10. Reasonable artwork management
11. Playlist functions (preferably some sort of smart playlist ability)
12. Ability to use smart phones or tablets to control everything
13. Ability to provide scrobbling data to last.fm.
14. Mechanism for connecting to free (pandora, etc.) and paid services (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.). This would be something like mysqueezebox.com.

Yes, with some minor things missing, this describes the Squeezebox line at its heyday. Don't take this as nostalgia. I'm not wedded to SB items, but I am wedded to the functionality provided. I look forward to some quality products from Olive. I *almost* bought an OLIVE digital music player many years ago and have always thought of Olive as a good company.

[I also sent this info in an email to: info@olivehd.com]

Ikabob
2013-01-03, 05:57
I assume olive_media represents olive in some way. That's good...I'm happy to see you here. As you'll find, there are lots of people here that are serious about use of network music streamers in good (or great!) audio systems. I have often said I would pay 10 times what I paid for a SB TOUCH if it had the same or better functions/quality.

The Olive ONE looks like an interesting product. Sort of a SB Boom that you add your own speakers to. I'm sure there is a market for that. And I'd even want that as a *part* of a whole house system. However, I hope OLIVE is considering additional products, as the OLIVE ONE would not meet my key criteria. To summarize my criteria:

1. At least one type Player without amp/speakers that I can connect to my DAC via either S/PDIF coax, optical, or USB. Preferably all 3 options for digital out. Would also have built in DAC so that users can simply connect to preamp/amp with analog. That is, something like the Squeezebox TOUCH. (nice addition, ability to plug in cable for automatically turning on/off another component)
2. At least one type player that can serve as a table or bedside radio (with built in physical controls and display). That is, something like the Squeezebox Radio or Boom.
3. [ Nice, but not required] A very high quality networked player with built in high quality DAC, high quality build and components, all digital outs, analog outs, plus BALANCED analog outs. That is, something like the TRANSPORTER (nice addition, wired plug in cable for ability to turn on/off another component)
4. Possibility of perfect synching across different players in same network.
5. Support of many codecs (FLAC, mp3, m4a, AAC, ALAC, WAV, etc.).
6. Support of at least 24/96, 24/192 better.
7. Good implementation of digital volume control
8. Support of Gapless playback
9. Reasonable database management (must handle large libraries > 200,000 tracks)
10. Reasonable artwork management
11. Playlist functions (preferably some sort of smart playlist ability)
12. Ability to use smart phones or tablets to control everything
13. Ability to provide scrobbling data to last.fm.
14. Mechanism for connecting to free (pandora, etc.) and paid services (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.). This would be something like mysqueezebox.com.

Yes, with some minor things missing, this describes the Squeezebox line at its heyday. Don't take this as nostalgia. I'm not wedded to SB items, but I am wedded to the functionality provided. I look forward to some quality products from Olive. I *almost* bought an OLIVE digital music player many years ago and have always thought of Olive as a good company.

[I also sent this info in an email to: info@olivehd.com]


I totally agree with all the criteria. Well said. I would just add (and maybe you included these)....
A "line in" and "line out" feature.

It's really too bad that LOGITECH has dropped the line of products that satisfies all these features. But I also do not think that LOGITECH is the kind of prestigious respected company that would leave its loyal consumers high and dry. I just don't think they would want that kind of reputation with future customers.

erland
2013-01-03, 06:21
It's really too bad that LOGITECH has dropped the line of products that satisfies all these features. But I also do not think that LOGITECH is the kind of prestigious respected company that would leave its loyal consumers high and dry. I just don't think they would want that kind of reputation with future customers.

Logitech is likely going to continue supporting Squeezeboxes and keep mysqueezebox.com running for the foreseeable future, except for this I think you can stop hoping for Logitech unless you are a user who love the limited simplified functionality in UE Smart Radio.

For mass market users who possibly love the UE Smart Radio product, there is a possibility Logitech might have more products with similar functionality in the pipeline, this criteria probably also matches most Squeezebox users who only have a single Squeezebox Radio today and mainly use it to listen to internet radios. It's important to realize that most people on this forum is not similar to the typical Squeezebox user, which also explains why Logitech decided to dumb down the UE Smart Radio product, they are doing this for the typical Squeezebox user who have a single Squeezebox and mainly uses it for internet radio.

garym
2013-01-03, 06:21
I totally agree with all the criteria. Well said. I would just add (and maybe you includede these)....
A "line in" and "line out" feature.

It's really too bad that LOGITECH has dropped the line of products that satisfies all these features. But I also do not think that LOGITECH is the kind of prestigious respected company that would leave its loyal consumers high and dry. I just don't think they would want that kind of reputation with future customers.

squeezebox (or UE radio) products are a tiny, tiny, tiny part of logitech. I'm sad to say that Logitech (and most large companies in my experience) could care less about their customers. They only think in short term (next quarter's earnings release).

edit: to be fair, squeezebox players were never a good match for logitech (high volume cheap hardware items that are replaced every few years, e.g., mouse, keyboard, pointer, etc.). Given the small volume, the headaches (mysb.com support, LMS support/udpates, help line support, etc.), if I were an executive at Logitech, I'd have likely made the same decision to change directions and kill the squeezebox line. As much as I love my stuff, it is a niche product that doesn't fit Logitech's portfolio of products.

socistep
2013-01-03, 08:24
I assume olive_media represents olive in some way. That's good...I'm happy to see you here. As you'll find, there are lots of people here that are serious about use of network music streamers in good (or great!) audio systems. I have often said I would pay 10 times what I paid for a SB TOUCH if it had the same or better functions/quality.

The Olive ONE looks like an interesting product. Sort of a SB Boom that you add your own speakers to. I'm sure there is a market for that. And I'd even want that as a *part* of a whole house system. However, I hope OLIVE is considering additional products, as the OLIVE ONE would not meet my key criteria. To summarize my criteria:

1. At least one type Player without amp/speakers that I can connect to my DAC via either S/PDIF coax, optical, or USB. Preferably all 3 options for digital out. Would also have built in DAC so that users can simply connect to preamp/amp with analog. That is, something like the Squeezebox TOUCH. (nice addition, ability to plug in cable for automatically turning on/off another component)
2. At least one type player that can serve as a table or bedside radio (with built in physical controls and display). That is, something like the Squeezebox Radio or Boom.
3. [ Nice, but not required] A very high quality networked player with built in high quality DAC, high quality build and components, all digital outs, analog outs, plus BALANCED analog outs. That is, something like the TRANSPORTER (nice addition, wired plug in cable for ability to turn on/off another component)
4. Possibility of perfect synching across different players in same network.
5. Support of many codecs (FLAC, mp3, m4a, AAC, ALAC, WAV, etc.).
6. Support of at least 24/96, 24/192 better.
7. Good implementation of digital volume control
8. Support of Gapless playback
9. Reasonable database management (must handle large libraries > 200,000 tracks)
10. Reasonable artwork management
11. Playlist functions (preferably some sort of smart playlist ability)
12. Ability to use smart phones or tablets to control everything
13. Ability to provide scrobbling data to last.fm.
14. Mechanism for connecting to free (pandora, etc.) and paid services (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.). This would be something like mysqueezebox.com.

Yes, with some minor things missing, this describes the Squeezebox line at its heyday. Don't take this as nostalgia. I'm not wedded to SB items, but I am wedded to the functionality provided. I look forward to some quality products from Olive. I *almost* bought an OLIVE digital music player many years ago and have always thought of Olive as a good company.

[I also sent this info in an email to: info@olivehd.com]

Pretty much agree with all that also, I also am wedded to the functionality, if another company offered that and additional features/new players that I hoped Logitech would do then I would be tempted to start migrating from my current SB setup.

Definately interested in seeing how the olive one concept develops, its easy to be cynical so trying to keep an open mind on it!

Ikabob
2013-01-03, 09:06
Logitech is likely going to continue supporting Squeezeboxes and keep mysqueezebox.com running for the foreseeable future, except for this I think you can stop hoping for Logitech unless you are a user who love the limited simplified functionality in UE Smart Radio.

For mass market users who possibly love the UE Smart Radio product, there is a possibility Logitech might have more products with similar functionality in the pipeline, this criteria probably also matches most Squeezebox users who only have a single Squeezebox Radio today and mainly use it to listen to internet radios. It's important to realize that most people on this forum is not similar to the typical Squeezebox user, which also explains why Logitech decided to dumb down the UE Smart Radio product, they are doing this for the typical Squeezebox user who have a single Squeezebox and mainly uses it for internet radio.

Yes Erland, I, with the help of this community, have learned the awesome functionality of the Squeezebox and I definitely appreciate all that can be done to customize the system. I would NOT TRADE that for the simplified dumbed down "smart" UE. That being said, I completely understand the need for them to simplify for mass marketing. Yes, it's disappointing but understandable.

My point was that for the large numbers of consumers who bought into and learned (as I) the system, Logitech is going to stand behind that product line and support those of us who have invested big bucks into their products. I don't think they want a battle with a large group of unhappy consumers, ethically and even legally. That is NOT what brought LOGITECH to prominence and made LOGITECH reputable. They are not dumb.

I have many devices and I have bought friends devices and recommended Squeezeboxes to so many. I do feel bad that I no longer have a LOGITECH Squeezebox product that I can recommend.

Mnyb
2013-01-03, 09:34
I assume olive_media represents olive in some way. That's good...I'm happy to see you here. As you'll find, there are lots of people here that are serious about use of network music streamers in good (or great!) audio systems. I have often said I would pay 10 times what I paid for a SB TOUCH if it had the same or better functions/quality.

The Olive ONE looks like an interesting product. Sort of a SB Boom that you add your own speakers to. I'm sure there is a market for that. And I'd even want that as a *part* of a whole house system. However, I hope OLIVE is considering additional products, as the OLIVE ONE would not meet my key criteria. To summarize my criteria:

1. At least one type Player without amp/speakers that I can connect to my DAC via either S/PDIF coax, optical, or USB. Preferably all 3 options for digital out. Would also have built in DAC so that users can simply connect to preamp/amp with analog. That is, something like the Squeezebox TOUCH. (nice addition, ability to plug in cable for automatically turning on/off another component)
2. At least one type player that can serve as a table or bedside radio (with built in physical controls and display). That is, something like the Squeezebox Radio or Boom.
3. [ Nice, but not required] A very high quality networked player with built in high quality DAC, high quality build and components, all digital outs, analog outs, plus BALANCED analog outs. That is, something like the TRANSPORTER (nice addition, wired plug in cable for ability to turn on/off another component)
4. Possibility of perfect synching across different players in same network.
5. Support of many codecs (FLAC, mp3, m4a, AAC, ALAC, WAV, etc.).
6. Support of at least 24/96, 24/192 better.
7. Good implementation of digital volume control
8. Support of Gapless playback
9. Reasonable database management (must handle large libraries > 200,000 tracks)
10. Reasonable artwork management
11. Playlist functions (preferably some sort of smart playlist ability)
12. Ability to use smart phones or tablets to control everything
13. Ability to provide scrobbling data to last.fm.
14. Mechanism for connecting to free (pandora, etc.) and paid services (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.). This would be something like mysqueezebox.com.

Yes, with some minor things missing, this describes the Squeezebox line at its heyday. Don't take this as nostalgia. I'm not wedded to SB items, but I am wedded to the functionality provided. I look forward to some quality products from Olive. I *almost* bought an OLIVE digital music player many years ago and have always thought of Olive as a good company.

[I also sent this info in an email to: info@olivehd.com]

+1

That would be nice agreed .

Further ideas ,digital only streamer whose AV equipment is not best served by a digital signal anyway .
hdmi out and capability of >= 5.1 FLAC of arbitrary resolution .

A pad app who can edit file tag data (this can for various reasons not easily be safely implemented in our current system)

Re 11. good playlist functions the biggest hole in the current line up , not only smart list but the ability to edit one normal playlist .

garym
2013-01-03, 10:14
Another important item I left out:

ability to use ReplayGain tags. Squeezeboxes can use none, track gain, album gain, or SMART gain (I use the latter). Smart gain is nice because if playing an entire album it automatically uses ALBUM gain, but if playing a mixture of tracks from different albums, it automatically uses TRACK gain. So I can set to SMART gain and just leave it there.

garym
2013-01-03, 17:20
I assume olive_media represents olive in some way. That's good...I'm happy to see you here. As you'll find, there are lots of people here that are serious about use of network music streamers in good (or great!) audio systems. I have often said I would pay 10 times what I paid for a SB TOUCH if it had the same or better functions/quality.

The Olive ONE looks like an interesting product. Sort of a SB Boom that you add your own speakers to. I'm sure there is a market for that. And I'd even want that as a *part* of a whole house system. However, I hope OLIVE is considering additional products, as the OLIVE ONE would not meet my key criteria. To summarize my criteria:

1. At least one type Player without amp/speakers that I can connect to my DAC via either S/PDIF coax, optical, or USB. Preferably all 3 options for digital out. Would also have built in DAC so that users can simply connect to preamp/amp with analog. That is, something like the Squeezebox TOUCH. (nice addition, ability to plug in cable for automatically turning on/off another component)
2. At least one type player that can serve as a table or bedside radio (with built in physical controls and display). That is, something like the Squeezebox Radio or Boom.
3. [ Nice, but not required] A very high quality networked player with built in high quality DAC, high quality build and components, all digital outs, analog outs, plus BALANCED analog outs. That is, something like the TRANSPORTER (nice addition, wired plug in cable for ability to turn on/off another component)
4. Possibility of perfect synching across different players in same network.
5. Support of many codecs (FLAC, mp3, m4a, AAC, ALAC, WAV, etc.).
6. Support of at least 24/96, 24/192 better.
7. Good implementation of digital volume control
8. Support of Gapless playback
9. Reasonable database management (must handle large libraries > 200,000 tracks)
10. Reasonable artwork management
11. Playlist functions (preferably some sort of smart playlist ability)
12. Ability to use smart phones or tablets to control everything
13. Ability to provide scrobbling data to last.fm.
14. Mechanism for connecting to free (pandora, etc.) and paid services (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.). This would be something like mysqueezebox.com.

Yes, with some minor things missing, this describes the Squeezebox line at its heyday. Don't take this as nostalgia. I'm not wedded to SB items, but I am wedded to the functionality provided. I look forward to some quality products from Olive. I *almost* bought an OLIVE digital music player many years ago and have always thought of Olive as a good company.

[I also sent this info in an email to: info@olivehd.com]

By the way, I received a return email from Olive re: the above. They took the time to answer my questions, raised a few questions about my comments asking for more info (e.g., what is scrobbling), etc. Good customer service I'd say based on their response.

Main news was that their player (even though has amp), does have a S/PDIF Coax output. Other things; gapless, yes, artwork, yes, many codecs, yes, 24/96 maybe 192, yes. digital volume control, yes. Large libraries, yes. Library management: they simply talked about a tablet/ipad approach. Not sure exactly what that means. artwork, yes. Pandora they have, other services they mention a smart phone/bluetooth approach (which doesn't sound good). But they reiterated the ability to do 3rd party plugins.

garym
2013-01-03, 19:49
I had a followup email from Olive after I answered some of their questions and raised issues about their earlier answers. They seem very open to dialog and seem to understand many of the things that they need to add to future versions of the product. No idea how the ONE and future products will turn out, but they seem at least open to many of the things folks around here view as important....A good sign. Anyhow, I'm always impressed with a company that can communicate with customers. I wasn't around in the original slimdevices days, but the communications I've had thus far remind me of some of the older threads on this board when the original owners were answering questions and taking suggestions about making the product better.

Time will tell of course, but I wanted to give credit where credit is due since I'm usually very pessimistic about how most companies treat their customers.

erland
2013-01-03, 22:32
Library management: they simply talked about a tablet/ipad approach. Not sure exactly what that means.

What do you mean with "library management" ?

In my view, LMS has very little library management while apps like iTunes and WMP have a lot more. Library management for me means that I can restructure my library and add/remove/change artist/albums/track data from a user interface, none of this exists in LMS today. We have the third party Multi Library/Custom Scan/Custom Browse plugins which is kind of library management related since they make it possible to restructure the browse menus to get a different structure of your library but they still relies on tags or directory paths which can't be modified through LMS currently.

erland
2013-01-03, 22:48
11. Playlist functions (preferably some sort of smart playlist ability)

If you want smart playlists you also need to add handling of statistic data such as play counts, last played time and ratings to the list, smart playlists without this is more or less useless IMHO. Often you want to filter or limit the smart playlist to things like:
- Only include music you don't listen to very often
- Only include music you haven't listen to for a long time
- Only include music which you love (top rated tracks)
- Exclude music you hate (low rated tracks)
- Only include music you listen to often.

Neither Sonos nor Logitech seems to understand this need, which is why I decided to provide support for all of it through third party plugins instead.

It could be that smart playlists is something that would only used by a small subset of the users and that this is the main thing that makes it less interesting for them to include support for it, but then it's strange that both Apple (iTunes/iPod) and Microsoft (WMP) has decided to include it in their products because especially Apple is usually pretty restrictive regarding including features which is only used by a few users. Possibly it might be that both Apple and Microsoft is focused at local music while Logitech is more focused at streaming from online services.

socistep
2013-01-04, 05:07
If you want smart playlists you also need to add handling of statistic data such as play counts, last played time and ratings to the list, smart playlists without this is more or less useless IMHO. Often you want to filter or limit the smart playlist to things like:
- Only include music you don't listen to very often
- Only include music you haven't listen to for a long time
- Only include music which you love (top rated tracks)
- Exclude music you hate (low rated tracks)
- Only include music you listen to often.

Neither Sonos nor Logitech seems to understand this need, which is why I decided to provide support for all of it through third party plugins instead.

It could be that smart playlists is something that would only used by a small subset of the users and that this is the main thing that makes it less interesting for them to include support for it, but then it's strange that both Apple (iTunes/iPod) and Microsoft (WMP) has decided to include it in their products because especially Apple is usually pretty restrictive regarding including features which is only used by a few users. Possibly it might be that both Apple and Microsoft is focused at local music while Logitech is more focused at streaming from online services.

That feature and your plugins are a 'Must' for me of any system, I have 'smart' playlists set on rating, genre, decades, years which are heavily used - I then use the 'top rated' tracks to convert to mp3 for usage on apple/android devices

Basically Erland you are a legend :-)

In terms of moving away from SB I would need that functionality there or the ability for clever people to develop plugins

garym
2013-01-04, 05:07
What do you mean with "library management" ?

In my view, LMS has very little library management while apps like iTunes and WMP have a lot more. Library management for me means that I can restructure my library and add/remove/change artist/albums/track data from a user interface, none of this exists in LMS today. We have the third party Multi Library/Custom Scan/Custom Browse plugins which is kind of library management related since they make it possible to restructure the browse menus to get a different structure of your library but they still relies on tags or directory paths which can't be modified through LMS currently.

I agree with your points. I mostly just mean that there is a functioning database that can use tags, etc. and is not simply a directory/subdirectory of files used by a DLNA/UpnP approach.

garym
2013-01-04, 05:08
If you want smart playlists you also need to add handling of statistic data such as play counts, last played time and ratings to the list, smart playlists without this is more or less useless IMHO. Often you want to filter or limit the smart playlist to things like:
- Only include music you don't listen to very often
- Only include music you haven't listen to for a long time
- Only include music which you love (top rated tracks)
- Exclude music you hate (low rated tracks)
- Only include music you listen to often.

Neither Sonos nor Logitech seems to understand this need, which is why I decided to provide support for all of it through third party plugins instead.

It could be that smart playlists is something that would only used by a small subset of the users and that this is the main thing that makes it less interesting for them to include support for it, but then it's strange that both Apple (iTunes/iPod) and Microsoft (WMP) has decided to include it in their products because especially Apple is usually pretty restrictive regarding including features which is only used by a few users. Possibly it might be that both Apple and Microsoft is focused at local music while Logitech is more focused at streaming from online services.

agree!

erland
2013-01-04, 05:34
I agree with your points. I mostly just mean that there is a functioning database that can use tags, etc. and is not simply a directory/subdirectory of files used by a DLNA/UpnP approach.

DLNA/UPnP doesn't necessary mean that it displays a directory/subdirectory structure, just look at the DLNA/UPnP server exposed from LMS which exposes similar structure as in the normal LMS browse menus, but I get what you mean, you basically want tag based browsing with good performance.

DaveWr
2013-01-04, 07:16
DLNA/UPnP doesn't necessary mean that it displays a directory/subdirectory structure, just look at the DLNA/UPnP server exposed from LMS which exposes similar structure as in the normal LMS browse menus, but I get what you mean, you basically want tag based browsing with good performance.

If you are in a DLNA/UPnP environment, the control point structure seen for browsing music is set by the tree structures defined in the server software. For example, MinimServer, presents on every selection a full set of tag based further selection options until you get to the music item you want. A very clever concept. Especially in free multi platform software.

HalleysComet
2013-01-12, 11:16
If you want smart playlists you also need to add handling of statistic data such as play counts, last played time and ratings to the list, smart playlists without this is more or less useless IMHO. Often you want to filter or limit the smart playlist to things like:
- Only include music you don't listen to very often
- Only include music you haven't listen to for a long time
- Only include music which you love (top rated tracks)
- Exclude music you hate (low rated tracks)
- Only include music you listen to often.

Neither Sonos nor Logitech seems to understand this need, which is why I decided to provide support for all of it through third party plugins instead.

It could be that smart playlists is something that would only used by a small subset of the users and that this is the main thing that makes it less interesting for them to include support for it, but then it's strange that both Apple (iTunes/iPod) and Microsoft (WMP) has decided to include it in their products because especially Apple is usually pretty restrictive regarding including features which is only used by a few users. Possibly it might be that both Apple and Microsoft is focused at local music while Logitech is more focused at streaming from online services.


Speaking of niche markets, the Erland plugins make the LMS solution the ONLY viable approach for large digital collections of classical music. And when you couple classical music with audiophile demands (e.g. Transporter-type solutions) for high bandwidth, low jitter 24/192 or whatever bit-rates, there simply is not a better solution extant. Being able to select by conductor, soloist, recording engineer, choral ensemble, in addition to basic composer/work/orchestra is a godsend for serious listening. I don't see Olive or Apple or even Linn or Meridian stepping into this gap. For those with more than $20,000 invested in their music playback systems, there is an open opportunity for music management/playback solutions. Vortexbox-based computer audio equipment gets partway there, but the LMS software with Erland plug-ins is the missing link.

About as far away from the mass market as possible! But still a viable market opportunity for someone...

EliteAV
2013-01-14, 15:00
If you want smart playlists you also need to add handling of statistic data such as play counts, last played time and ratings to the list, smart playlists without this is more or less useless IMHO. Often you want to filter or limit the smart playlist to things like:
- Only include music you don't listen to very often
- Only include music you haven't listen to for a long time
- Only include music which you love (top rated tracks)
- Exclude music you hate (low rated tracks)
- Only include music you listen to often.
...


It looks like the Olive One will be providing similar functionality by storing play statistics as per this:

"Our patent-pending SESSION technology learns from your listening habits. Simply activate SESSION and ONE automatically tracks your music preferences across many criteria: genres, artists, ratings, play count, volume, even the time of the day and season. It learns if you get the Blues on Monday or like to dance on Friday night. After awhile ONE can start playing awesome, relevant music you'll love with one simple touch."

Source: http://myoliveone.com/Ones/music_os

I have been a fairly long time user of Squeezebox devices and currently have 3 x SB Touch and 1 x SBR, but am very interested in what Olive are planning with the ONE.

I was initially disappointed that Olive were not originally planning on providing a digital out (as I have one of my SB Touch devices feeding an Audiolab M-DAC & wanted to do the same with the ONE), but they have confirmed that this will now be provided.

They are also considering whether additional connections can be provided (without significant PCB redesign work) for analogue out & ethernet with the plan being that all connections would be available from a "connection hub" (my words), with just a single cable running back to the ONE (containing discrete cables inside).

paqi
2013-01-15, 05:14
Agree. Seems like an obvious thing. But perhaps just a symptom of the dummying down of the market to only want something to link to their smartphone. None of the young people I know even own a preamp/amp or receiver. In my 20s, my stereo system cost more than my car (although neither was that great).

I was attending a presentation of Bang&Olufsons new Airplay products last week. When somebody asked about stereo the reply was; In todays world not many people have the time to sit down and listen to music which is why our products are all in mono - good quality mono. There is no requests for stereo in a daily household.

I guess the same goes for Libratone products. I am 44 and I dont even have a preamp/amp. I do have good speakers but they are not hooked up...

So I strongly believe that if you want to win you would need something like Airplay but with multiroom features on a platform that is available on almost any product as a remote thing. otherwise it will die.

Ipeng is a result that clearly shows that the logitech remote is bad - and everybody has an iphone or ipad. My 5 year old daughter has a Tangent ipod dock with an Ipod touch using Ipeng.

And as a result of functionality of the in app feature of Ipeng I only use docks with speakers attached instead of my Duet. I have less problems with connections and it takes up less space.

I hope that the future will bring more products pointing in that direction but with the ability to support the hifi people out there as well.

Jeppe

erland
2013-01-15, 06:05
So I strongly believe that if you want to win you would need something like Airplay but with multiroom features on a platform that is available on almost any product as a remote thing. otherwise it will die.

Depends on what you mean with multiroom. I think people want to be able to play their music in multiple rooms without duplicating their music files for each room. However, I don't think the masses consider synchronized playback to be critical if they don't even consider stereo to be important in the main listening room.

AirPlay and bluetooth solutions generally assumes you have the music files on your personal tablet/smartphone or only listens to online streaming services. This fulfills the above mention needs but it doesn't consider the fact that you don't want your smartphone to run out of battery (if it's in your hand/pocket) and if you put it in the docking station to solve this it's lacking the remote control ability and makes it hard to answer phone calls and use SMS while listening to music.

erland
2013-01-15, 06:10
It looks like the Olive One will be providing similar functionality by storing play statistics as per this:

"Our patent-pending SESSION™ technology learns from your listening habits. Simply activate SESSION™ and ONE automatically tracks your music preferences across many criteria: genres, artists, ratings, play count, volume, even the time of the day and season. It learns if you get the Blues on Monday or like to dance on Friday night. After awhile ONE can start playing awesome, relevant music you'll love with one simple touch."

Source: http://myoliveone.com/Ones/music_os

Except for the fact that they talk about patents this sounds really promising.

bossanova808
2013-01-16, 00:16
You can have your library on one One (internal hd) and the others all pick it up across the wireles - indeed, it will also back up one One to another One if they both have HDs....

garym
2013-01-16, 05:25
You can have your library on one One (internal hd) and the others all pick it up across the wireles - indeed, it will also back up one One to another One if they both have HDs....

I don't recall. Can one use ethernet to connect all these players if one chooses?

EliteAV
2013-01-16, 14:08
I don't recall. Can one use ethernet to connect all these players if one chooses?

The prototype / initial design only supports wireless; I think Olive were trying to keep the number of cables to an absolute minimum (i.e. just a power cable /speaker cables) as well as providing users with more flexibility on where the ONE is located.

However Olive have had quite a few requests from backers to include Ethernet who have cited the desire to be able to use the ONE in locations where wireless may not be viable (particularly for higher bandwidth lossless music).

So Olive are currently looking at the PCB changes that would be required to incorporate this (along with an analogue out in tandem with the already announced coaxial SPDIF out).

On the subject of wireless, Olive also advised that a subsequent version of the ONE may support wireless speakers.

It is interesting seeing how the product as originally envisaged by Olive as a simple plug & play solution (with integrated DAC & amps) that you just connect speakers to, is morphing into something potentially a lot more flexible (I suspect there are quite a few SB users who are pushing for this:-)

ninthsrw
2013-01-29, 12:28
...analogue out in tandem with the already announced coaxial SPDIF out).

I was optimistic, but these guys are starting to sleaze me out. Their plan to provide the analog out appears to involves a separate “connector box,” for which they will be charging extra, and which will require some sort of proprietary "umbilical" connection to the portion housing the DAC and "HD" amplifier. It seems they have had this plan since day one – though nothing on their main Indogogo page says anything about it, and it appears that they have been deleting indigogo comments where they addressed the “connector box” early on, notably including a post in which they suggested that they would not be charging indigogo pledgers extra for the “connector box.” Proprietary connectors, apparently misleading PR, trying to suggests that somehow 1 watt from their product is more than 1 watt from something else – these guys do not seem like they are shaping up to be the answer to our woes, but at least they are trying to develop a product, as opposed to killing off what they've got...

dyohn
2013-01-29, 13:45
I was optimistic, but these guys are starting to sleaze me out. Their plan to provide the analog out appears to involves a separate “connector box,” for which they will be charging extra, and which will require some sort of proprietary "umbilical" connection to the portion housing the DAC and "HD" amplifier. It seems they have had this plan since day one – though nothing on their main Indogogo page says anything about it, and it appears that they have been deleting indigogo comments where they addressed the “connector box” early on, notably including a post in which they suggested that they would not be charging indigogo pledgers extra for the “connector box.” Proprietary connectors, apparently misleading PR, trying to suggests that somehow 1 watt from their product is more than 1 watt from something else – these guys do not seem like they are shaping up to be the answer to our woes, but at least they are trying to develop a product, as opposed to killing off what they've got...

That's what I've been afraid of since the first time I heard of this project. As a former Olive Opus 4 owner, I can tell you they LOVE their proprietary formats and they want to create an Apple-like closed infrastructure. Plus as least with my Opus, the hardware was a LONG way from reliable...

gruntwolla
2013-01-29, 18:49
I was optimistic, but these guys are starting to sleaze me out. Their plan to provide the analog out appears to involves a separate connector box, for which they will be charging extra, and which will require some sort of proprietary "umbilical" connection to the portion housing the DAC and "HD" amplifier. It seems they have had this plan since day one though nothing on their main Indogogo page says anything about it, and it appears that they have been deleting indigogo comments where they addressed the connector box early on, notably including a post in which they suggested that they would not be charging indigogo pledgers extra for the connector box. Proprietary connectors, apparently misleading PR, trying to suggests that somehow 1 watt from their product is more than 1 watt from something else these guys do not seem like they are shaping up to be the answer to our woes, but at least they are trying to develop a product, as opposed to killing off what they've got...

Not necessarily disagreeing with everything you say but here's the link to the latest Olive One developments on Indiegogo - http://d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/639085/files/20130129170523-Olive_update_012913.pdf?1359507931


Like I stated earlier, although as an early adopter I'm obviously biased, they sure do seem to be listening
.
Trev

ninthsrw
2013-01-29, 19:53
they sure do seem to be listening


That's because they have been deleting comments (their own and backers) on their indigogo page that are contrary to their current position - including posts wherein they said the "connector box" would not cost current backers anything extra, and posts pointing out that a "digital output" has been an advertised feature of the Olive One without connector box since the first day of their campaign.

Nothing wrong with chasing a profit, but I'm eager to replace my substantial SB ecosystem and was really hoping for more from these guys.

mlsstl
2013-01-29, 21:24
Nothing wrong with chasing a profit, but I'm eager to replace my substantial SB ecosystem and was really hoping for more from these guys.

Curious, why the strong urge to replace your Squeezeboxes?

gruntwolla
2013-01-29, 21:54
That's because they have been deleting comments (their own and backers) on their indigogo page that are contrary to their current position - including posts wherein they said the "connector box" would not cost current backers anything extra, and posts pointing out that a "digital output" has been an advertised feature of the Olive One without connector box since the first day of their campaign.

Nothing wrong with chasing a profit, but I'm eager to replace my substantial SB ecosystem and was really hoping for more from these guys.

I think the timing of Logitech's abandonment of Squeezebox, and the varied requests/suggestions from current Squeezebox users has forced Olive to rethink what the "One" should do. I'm not defending the deletion of disagreeable posts to suit themselves, but this connector box idea they've come up with does seem to be the best way forward to offer what the majority have voted for.
As I said, this device was obviously originally not envisaged as a competitor to the Squeezebox line, but fair play to them for at least coming up with an idea that will satisfy many people's needs, albeit at an extra cost

ninthsrw
2013-01-30, 10:09
... does seem to be the best way forward to offer what the majority have voted for.
...was obviously originally not envisaged as a competitor to the Squeezebox line, but fair play to them for at least coming up with an idea that will satisfy many people's needs, albeit at an extra cost

1) What exactly did the majority vote for?: The vote was limited to only selecting what connectivity methods might be desirable, not selecting how those connectivity methods would be implemented (other than with respect to overall delay and overall increased cost with respect to the product as a whole) - there was insufficient resolution in the voting to conclude that the majority voted for a connector box. Moreover, disclosure by Olive regarding the the ways they might have chosen to implement a connector box was so inadequate - because of deleted posts - that it cannot even be said the majority were impliedly voting for a connector box.

2) Per the comments on indigogo they deleted, the connector box has been on the table since a day or two after the indigogo campaign, before any pressure from the Sqeezebox crowd manifest.

3) I am eager to replace because I've begun to play with 24/192, don't presently own any Touches, and have recently moved into a larger home - so need more endpoint distribution, and would like a system wherein at least some components can facilitate 24/192.

mlsstl
2013-01-30, 18:22
1) ... I am eager to replace because I've begun to play with 24/192, don't presently own any Touches, and have recently moved into a larger home - so need more endpoint distribution, and would like a system wherein at least some components can facilitate 24/192.

Thanks for the explanation as to why the immediate need for a different system. Good luck with your quest.

As for the 24/192 experiments, I'm in the seriously doubtful camp as to the necessity (and even wisdom) of chasing that format. I have some 24/96 material and the difference for me is extremely subtle (based on my making the 16/44 and 24/96 material myself to avoid the influence of different masters.) It seems the 192 factor just unnecessarily introduces ultrasonics and more noise susceptibility into the equation.

If you haven't been following it, check out the thread in the Audiophile section started by Archimago in testing the Squeezebox at CD and rates up to 24/192 with the EDO plug-in. Interesting stuff.

I know there are some who always pursue the latest trends, but I'm getting off-subject.

EliteAV
2013-01-31, 09:28
1) What exactly did the majority vote for?: The vote was limited to only selecting what connectivity methods might be desirable, not selecting how those connectivity methods would be implemented (other than with respect to overall delay and overall increased cost with respect to the product as a whole) - there was insufficient resolution in the voting to conclude that the majority voted for a connector box. Moreover, disclosure by Olive regarding the the ways they might have chosen to implement a connector box was so inadequate - because of deleted posts - that it cannot even be said the majority were impliedly voting for a connector box.

2) Per the comments on indigogo they deleted, the connector box has been on the table since a day or two after the indigogo campaign, before any pressure from the Sqeezebox crowd manifest.


I have been reading all of the comments on the indigogo site since the Olive ONE campaign started (& have posted a few myself). If I recall correctly, the early discussions about a connector box / hub may have been referring to what Olive are now calling a PAC which is the box that provides a power connector & speaker connections (with a single cable running back from the PAC to the ONE containing the separate wires for power/analogue audio), however I may be wrong about this.

The initial product envisaged by the Olive engineers wasnt going to provide any audio connections other than the speaker connections in the PAC, however, almost immediately people starting asking if a digital out could be added to allow owners to use their own DAC (or feed an AV amp). Olive advised that this could be achieved without a great deal of work (as am guessing that the PCB already had a connection for a digital out).

Since then, people (I was one of them) started asking for additional connections: analogue out, wired Ethernet & USB. Hence the reason that Olive sent a survey to every backer asking for them to select which additional connectors (& other features) were of most importance & to confirm that they still wanted these to be included even if it meant pushing out the launch date (from July to Sep).

I believe that Olive didnt include a question in the survey about a new connection box as this came after the survey results had been collated showing that a large majority wanted additional connections so Olive then had to find the most elegant solution for this.

Were Olive engineers able to come up with a fully thought through solution within a couple of days of the survey closing? No, I am sure that they would have started looking at this a number of weeks ago as a result of the feedback in the comments section.

There is more background info here: http://www.indiegogo.com/OliveONE?c=activity

..and you can see the connector box here: http://myoliveone.com/Ones/tech_specs

I think this is a great solution: for people like me who want to be able to integrate the ONE into 4 different SB based systems that I have in my house (one that uses the SB coax digital out to an external DAC, 2 that use the analogue outs to active speakers and another that uses optical out to an AV amp), I will buy the connector box; for people who have more modest demands & just want to hook up the ONE to a pair of speakers, they dont need to buy the connector box.

Re the communications from Olive (and some comments being deleted), whilst some people may see this as subterfuge, I just see this as a company trying to provide a coherent message.

Personally, I find the idea of being able to shape the design of a new product very exciting and think that the dialogue that Olive has opened up with potential customers is a great idea. Some of the ideas that people are suggesting are a bit niche (i.e. DAB+ radio, being able to stream audio from TVs, audio inputs etc), but this is bound to happen.

Until the ONE is launched, I will continue to make great use of my current squeezeboxes.

cparker
2013-01-31, 11:33
But they reiterated the ability to do 3rd party plugins.

Any ideas on what language(s) they are supporting with their SDK? I can't imagine its Perl unless they are planning on borrowing lots of LMS code ;)
I'm presuming this will basically be some *nix box, will it support a SQLite backend??

Cheers

ninthsrw
2013-01-31, 11:35
[1] If I recall correctly, the early discussions about a connector box / hub may have been referring to what Olive are now calling a PAC which is the box that provides a power connector & speaker connections (with a single cable running back from the PAC to the ONE containing the separate wires for power/analogue audio), however I may be wrong about this.

[2] The initial product envisaged by the Olive engineers wasnt going to provide any audio connections other than the speaker connections in the PAC, however, almost immediately people starting asking if a digital out could be added ...

Since then, people (I was one of them) started asking for additional connections: analogue out, wired Ethernet & USB. Hence the reason that Olive sent a survey to every backer asking for them to select which additional connectors (& other features) were of most importance & to confirm that they still wanted these to be included even if it meant pushing out the launch date (from July to Sep).

[3] I believe that Olive didnt include a question in the survey about a new connection box as this came after the survey results had been collated...

[4] Re the communications from Olive (and some comments being deleted), whilst some people may see this as subterfuge, I just see this as a company trying to provide a coherent message.

[5] Personally, I find the idea of being able to shape the design of a new product very exciting a

[6] Until the ONE is launched, I will continue to make great use of my current squeezeboxes.

1) You are incorrect. The "connector box" discussion originated in the the comments a scant few days after the indigogo campaign went live - now deleted - and was not directed to the PAC. It was directed to the possibility of implementing analog outputs. I know because most of the original posts inquiring about whether or not a "proprietary connector" might be used to provide "analog out" were mine - I am also a backer - and o how I wish I had screen shots to share now.

2) The indigogo campaign homepage from the very first day provided that there would be a digital output from the One as originally designed - though of course they have since edited that. It appears that whomever was running their comments was not initially aware that this feature was included on the campaign homepage. The comments in the first week even clarified that this would be a coaxial output.

3) Analog outputs via a "dock" with "proprietary connector" were described by the Olive representative in the comments more than 20 days before the vote - but those comments are now deleted.

4) In the earliest comments concerning the implementation of any dock for analog out, the Olive representative provided that such a dock would be provided for free to backers - so its not subterfuge per se, just seems to me that they are chasing a profit motive with manipulative inducement. For the record, I do not mind the additional cost personally, and point this out so as to indicate a definitive motive beyond inexplicable "subterfuge" or an interest in providing a "coherent message"

5) As noted previously, the notion that we (backers) are somehow "shaping the deign" seems disingenuous, given that it appears that they began the campaign with a "coherent message" in mind- and then tried to lead a horse to water - i.e. the dock and analog output were part of their road map ab initio, and it seems their "reveal" was intended to maximize potential-market-awareness during the course of the campaign. I'm not sure that's a bad thing per se - these devices are not simple to engineer, such that it was arguably prudent of them to have a sense of where they could take the design.

6) I was one of the earlier SB3 users way back when, and I'll be one of the last to go. But that doesn't mean I'm going to wait to find a replacement, given other needs and interest.

Mnyb
2013-01-31, 13:28
Hmm , I think i did post something acerbic re their claim to drive b&w speakers with a cheap switch mode amp , but that is gone ? Was it a glitch on my iPad or did they told this forums admins to remove that ?

However at modest volume in a smal room anything works on a hard to drive speaker too , they seems to unaware of logarithmic property of sound :) it would the be uncontrolled and muddy when turning up the wick a little bit .

A weak amp does not sound that much less loud it just sound bad when something is demanded of it , you get 3dB every time you doubles the power in best case ( all speakers power compress ) 10 times the power gives at best 10dB more .
You can play but the sound would collapse in complex passages and if going a bit loud .

I would not power an 800 b&w or a large Dynaudio with less than 200wpc of quality power .

ninthsrw
2013-01-31, 14:16
Hmm , I think i did post something acerbic re their claim to drive b&w speakers with a cheap switch mode amp , but that is gone ? r .

Sorry for the confusion, all references to "comments" in my immediately preceding post are referring to the comments made in the "Comments" section of Olive's indigogo campaign site, not this form.

But your point is apt and I appreciate that you made it - my primary setup is entirely B&W 800 series based (except sub).

gruntwolla
2013-01-31, 15:11
Hmm , I think i did post something acerbic re their claim to drive b&w speakers with a cheap switch mode amp , but that is gone ? Was it a glitch on my iPad or did they told this forums admins to remove that ?

However at modest volume in a smal room anything works on a hard to drive speaker too , they seems to unaware of logarithmic property of sound :) it would the be uncontrolled and muddy when turning up the wick a little bit .

A weak amp does not sound that much less loud it just sound bad when something is demanded of it , you get 3dB every time you doubles the power in best case ( all speakers power compress ) 10 times the power gives at best 10dB more .
You can play but the sound would collapse in complex passages and if going a bit loud .

I would not power an 800 b&w or a large Dynaudio with less than 200wpc of quality power .

Yeah I remember the post - something along the lines of 1 watt is 1 watt! I find your opinion much more worrying than a few extra dollars for a connector box. They ( Olive ) have frequently alluded to the fact that the Olive One paired with a pair of B&W CM9's sounds amazing, and still use the audiophile word to describe various components.

Mnyb
2013-01-31, 22:46
Yeah I remember the post - something along the lines of 1 watt is 1 watt! I find your opinion much more worrying than a few extra dollars for a connector box. They ( Olive ) have frequently alluded to the fact that the Olive One paired with a pair of B&W CM9's sounds amazing, and still use the audiophile word to describe various components.

Umbecilical connector box brrr :)

The logical thing to do is two versions one with amp and one without amp but with a shed load of connectors to everything else.

If thy insist on one box the amp should also have inputs so that it could be used a s a zone amp from someones ht reciever .

code46
2013-02-01, 01:43
Yeah I remember the post - something along the lines of 1 watt is 1 watt! I find your opinion much more worrying than a few extra dollars for a connector box. They ( Olive ) have frequently alluded to the fact that the Olive One paired with a pair of B&W CM9's sounds amazing, and still use the audiophile word to describe various components.

I remember the post regarding the Olive One paired with B&W and let out a smirk. I was going to reply but gave it the old *sigh* and let it go. The audiophile market has always been driven by marketing in general. This type of claim will go over well with those who don't seem to care that in many cases, quality is often sacrificed for convenience and aesthetics.

No analog outs is a definite deal breaker. I can't believe anyone would connect the digital amp to a serious set of speakers, but Olive folks know they will if they just repeat certain claims enough times that it gets picked up and repeated on its own.

Plank
2013-02-01, 05:55
Can't you accomplish roughly the same thing as an Olive with an iPad mini and an Airport express? I've been happy using iTunes match and about 10 internet radio apps.

gruntwolla
2013-02-01, 09:32
I remember the post regarding the Olive One paired with B&W and let out a smirk. I was going to reply but gave it the old *sigh* and let it go. The audiophile market has always been driven by marketing in general. This type of claim will go over well with those who don't seem to care that in many cases, quality is often sacrificed for convenience and aesthetics.

No analog outs is a definite deal breaker. I can't believe anyone would connect the digital amp to a serious set of speakers, but Olive folks know they will if they just repeat certain claims enough times that it gets picked up and repeated on its own.

Analogue outs are included now. My present amp isn't exactly high end, so at least I'll be able to do a direct comparison

gruntwolla
2013-02-01, 09:33
Can't you accomplish roughly the same thing as an Olive with an iPad mini and an Airport express? I've been happy using iTunes match and about 10 internet radio apps.

Not if you hate itunes!!

DaveWr
2013-02-01, 09:40
Not if you hate itunes!!

No iTunes required, iPeng's fine.

ninthsrw
2013-02-01, 11:35
Maybe the answer here is a really simple hardware transcoder (not a DAC)– thunderbolt or USB in, coaxial or optical digital out – use iPeng (or some other app) on a tablet to control all playback.

Why don't high-end (as in feature rich) A/V receivers already have this functionality baked in? (i.e. not recognize the tablet as as mass storage device, but merely use the USB interface to receive LPCM, akin to a regular coaxial digital input - there is a USB profile for this right? The same as whatever USB DACs use?)

Olive has said in the comments on indigogo that they have no present plans to make any product without an amp, though many have suggested it.

amey01
2013-02-01, 23:26
No iTunes required, iPeng's fine.

Please explain?

Oh, and what if your library is in FLAC?

jimbobvfr400
2013-02-02, 05:17
Please explain?

Oh, and what if your library is in FLAC?

iPeng plus an optional in app purchase for local playback basically turns your device into a squeezebox using your existing server. You can do the same on Android using any available control app and an additional app called squeezeplay.

In my garage I have an old set of Yamaha 2.1 pc speakers that I simply plug either my phone or tablet into, bingo an extra squeezebox zone.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

GeeJay
2013-02-02, 12:22
Can't you accomplish roughly the same thing as an Olive with an iPad mini and an Airport express? I've been happy using iTunes match and about 10 internet radio apps.

Does sync work? My understanding is that is one of the main issues with this kind of setup. I have several players within earshot of one another, and if sync is slightly off it is unlistenable.

amey01
2013-02-02, 21:01
iPeng plus an optional in app purchase for local playback basically turns your device into a squeezebox using your existing server. You can do the same on Android using any available control app and an additional app called squeezeplay.

In my garage I have an old set of Yamaha 2.1 pc speakers that I simply plug either my phone or tablet into, bingo an extra squeezebox zone.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Thanks for your reply, but no - this is not how I understood the original thread of comments.

You're talking about turning your phone/tablet into a Squeezebox - yes, I understand that.

But the original post was


Can't you accomplish roughly the same thing as an Olive with an iPad mini and an Airport express? I've been happy using iTunes match and about 10 internet radio apps.

and then


No iTunes required, iPeng's fine.

Now, by these, I am reading that you can accomplish the same thing as an Olive (or Squeezebox) with an iPad and an Airport Express. No iTunes required. iPeng only.

So as I understand it, Squeezebox Server --> Airport express (possibly playing FLAC), controlled by iPeng.

Maybe I am reading that wrong?

froth
2013-02-05, 08:20
I have been following the olive story and it does look promising and it looks like the crowd funding is paying off as they well moved passed their initial target and could end up with over 1M once it is completed.

Given my squeezeboxes are still all functioning well, I am in no hurry to replace them today. In reviewing the olive one I see it would do everything I want and remove the need for a server. That I would like plus a nice large interface on the device which would be great for the wife and the support for internal amps. So I can see some upside over my multi room squeeze box deployment today. The problem I see is with costs. I had done up a cost schedule to see what it would be like if I had to replace my squeeze box setup with a sonos solution. It was to say the least not a pleasent experiance. From what I see with the oliveone it will not be that great as well. I have receivers, booms and classics. At approx 400.00+ per it would be thousands to replace my current setup.

I can see why people are snapping up spare Squeezeboxes.

DaveWr
2013-02-05, 08:31
Thanks for your reply, but no - this is not how I understood the original thread of comments.

You're talking about turning your phone/tablet into a Squeezebox - yes, I understand that.

But the original post was



and then



Now, by these, I am reading that you can accomplish the same thing as an Olive (or Squeezebox) with an iPad and an Airport Express. No iTunes required. iPeng only.

So as I understand it, Squeezebox Server --> Airport express (possibly playing FLAC), controlled by iPeng.

Maybe I am reading that wrong?

Squeezebox Server -> iPeng on iPad (with player mode) -> Airport Express ( via Airplay )

No iTunes.

gruntwolla
2013-02-05, 14:33
I have been following the olive story and it does look promising and it looks like the crowd funding is paying off as they well moved passed their initial target and could end up with over 1M once it is completed.

Given my squeezeboxes are still all functioning well, I am in no hurry to replace them today. In reviewing the olive one I see it would do everything I want and remove the need for a server. That I would like plus a nice large interface on the device which would be great for the wife and the support for internal amps. So I can see some upside over my multi room squeeze box deployment today. The problem I see is with costs. I had done up a cost schedule to see what it would be like if I had to replace my squeeze box setup with a sonos solution. It was to say the least not a pleasent experiance. From what I see with the oliveone it will not be that great as well. I have receivers, booms and classics. At approx 400.00+ per it would be thousands to replace my current setup.

I can see why people are snapping up spare Squeezeboxes.

Looks like you're in a very similar position to me. I decided to take a leap of faith and order 2. One with a 1TB hard drive which will act as the server, another without. If they are as good as I hope, then I will sell my Squeezeboxes whilst there is still a healthy demand for them, and get a couple more Olives for upstairs. I'm hoping for a total outlay of between $500-600 for 4 " zones". As i said - a leap of faith.

jabba
2013-02-11, 16:36
Looks like you're in a very similar position to me. I decided to take a leap of faith and order 2. One with a 1TB hard drive which will act as the server, another without. If they are as good as I hope, then I will sell my Squeezeboxes whilst there is still a healthy demand for them, and get a couple more Olives for upstairs. I'm hoping for a total outlay of between $500-600 for 4 " zones". As i said - a leap of faith.

Same here, I was after the extra zone and seeing the future of Squeezebox line is not very bright, started to look elsewhere. Sonos was one of the options, but then came Olive One. I have a feeling that it will fit the void, and if it gains traction, a full line of cool products is about to be born. I like their ideas, like customisable players, cool speakers (still in prototype phase) and the connector box that might solve all problems found in the original design. I support their idea to leave that out of the main box and have only one cable connecting to it. I ordered a model with 1TB drive so I can move between places with most of my music on it. I can't wait to put my Tannoy bookshelves back in action.

amey01
2013-02-16, 17:33
Squeezebox Server -> iPeng on iPad (with player mode) -> Airport Express ( via Airplay )

No iTunes.

So it can be done? Does it play bitperfect high-res FLAC? How does the music get to the AE? Via the iPad, or direct from the server with transcoding?

Squeezemenicely
2013-02-17, 04:51
Might be the same thing happens that happened to Pebble (a smartwatch) they wanted 100 thousand dollars and ended up with more than 10 million.
Meaning they had to also find a way to massproduce.

I funded them in april 2012, shipment was expected in september and I am still waiting for my watch... So by the time I will have it on my wrist, it will have taken nearly a year.


So, it could well be that the Olives appear much later than expected.

DaveWr
2013-02-17, 06:20
So it can be done? Does it play bitperfect high-res FLAC? How does the music get to the AE? Via the iPad, or direct from the server with transcoding?

Read my response. That gives routing.

Airplay is the limiting factor - 44.14 16bit only.

If you don't like that then it's USB DAC to camera connector on iPad.

Or Squeezelite on the server.

jabba
2013-02-17, 13:26
Might be the same thing happens that happened to Pebble (a smartwatch) they wanted 100 thousand dollars and ended up with more than 10 million.
Meaning they had to also find a way to massproduce.

I funded them in april 2012, shipment was expected in september and I am still waiting for my watch... So by the time I will have it on my wrist, it will have taken nearly a year.


So, it could well be that the Olives appear much later than expected.

Olive is the well established company with similar products already on the offer. They already announced that the release date will probably slip due to the changed requirements and the addition of the connector box. Sounds reasonable to me. They also have a second box deal now with $100 off. So tempting...

jhonsberger@msn.com
2013-05-11, 09:32
If there is no analog output to a regular hifi, it is a no-go for me. What is the benefit of a built in amp, for an audiophile network player ? The 32w amp can never drive my b&w speakers.

Yeah I don't get the built in amp part .

ninthsrw
2013-06-22, 18:40
They have deleted the miracast / wifi direct functionality - and heavily censoring their indiegogo forum as a result - deleting most comments - even the very polite and thoughtful ones - protesting it or changes to their pricing structure (announced with the miracast / wifi defeat). Kind of tragically hilarious to watch in real time, since the announcement came out friday evening. Feel bad for them.

jhonsberger@msn.com
2013-06-23, 09:33
I don't feel bad for Olive . I emailed them several times a month ago or so with some technical questions on the Olive One and did not get a single reply .
I think it's good policy to avoid these types of companies . There is no phone number either to call . Good luck finding
a working Olive phone number .

gruntwolla
2013-06-28, 04:14
They have deleted the miracast / wifi direct functionality - and heavily censoring their indiegogo forum as a result - deleting most comments - even the very polite and thoughtful ones - protesting it or changes to their pricing structure (announced with the miracast / wifi defeat). Kind of tragically hilarious to watch in real time, since the announcement came out friday evening. Feel bad for them.

Not sure who you're feeling bad for. Regarding posts being deleted, can you give any examples? The comments count on the indiegogo forum keeps on climbing, and all posts that I remember regarding wifi/miracast are still there. Also,apparently only 3% of backers were even interested in the miracast feature, which will in any case be available at a later date with a software update/web interface. Re the other updates, most of the comments seem to be generally in favour, although having to pay extra for the bigger had is a bit annoying. If you're a backer who is pissed off at the way things are progressing,then your various negative comments are fair enough,albeit in the wrong forum. If not, then not really sure what your beef is.

GeeJay
2014-01-10, 21:31
I wonder if this product is ever going to come to market. It's now been over six months since it's scheduled release date, andnada.

mikesiegel1
2014-01-12, 12:41
Hi all,
I've been doing a bit of research on the Olive One, and maybe I'm being naive, but this product looks like it could be everything the Squeezebox should have evovved into. Has anyone else here had a good look at their website, and if so what are the potential negatives, if any?


I have FIRST AND experience with Olive products and Olive as a company. DO you know they refuse to have a working phone number to the public. I spent
over $1,000 on the 03HD media server and they would only help me via slow email. That's not the bad part...their service SUCKS !!!

I signed up for the Olive One in June 2013. First it was a $50 coupon, then $100, then $150 now $25.00 They are 8 MONTHS behind. They supposedly are making
terrific changes to the Olive One. I would live to have one. But how could they call the One a audiophile product when they want you to hook $200 speaker DIRECTLY to its' tiny built0in amp. That is a stupid idea. What it is now is a toy. I love toys, but with the current configuration, its' no better than an advanced
BoomBox. I cannot say it enough times, I am FURIOUS at Olive for the way I have been treated, over the last 18 months.The server I paid $1100 for , THEY ARE SELLING DIRECTLY ON Audiogon for $399.00 ( for the last 4 months).

Their communications with people like me ,who gave them credit cards 7 months ago is criminal. I get an occasional e mail every 3 months, to tell me they have changed the GUI yet again , and it will be 3 more months. But....you can get a $25.00 coupon discount.
What about the other 3 coupons for $150 ???

Someone with real business sense and customer relations experience should take them over.

Mike

garym
2014-01-12, 13:34
Sad to say, but I expected this outcome as soon as I had some back and forth emails from the olive folks regarding questions i had just after this project was announced. It seemed pretty clear to me then that they were out of their depth.

jhonsberger@msn.com
2014-01-14, 09:26
I have FIRST AND experience with Olive products and Olive as a company. DO you know they refuse to have a working phone number to the public. I spent
over $1,000 on the 03HD media server and they would only help me via slow email. That's not the bad part...their service SUCKS !!!

I signed up for the Olive One in June 2013. First it was a $50 coupon, then $100, then $150 now $25.00 They are 8 MONTHS behind. They supposedly are making
terrific changes to the Olive One. I would live to have one. But how could they call the One a audiophile product when they want you to hook $200 speaker DIRECTLY to its' tiny built0in amp. That is a stupid idea. What it is now is a toy. I love toys, but with the current configuration, its' no better than an advanced
BoomBox. I cannot say it enough times, I am FURIOUS at Olive for the way I have been treated, over the last 18 months.The server I paid $1100 for , THEY ARE SELLING DIRECTLY ON Audiogon for $399.00 ( for the last 4 months).

Their communications with people like me ,who gave them credit cards 7 months ago is criminal. I get an occasional e mail every 3 months, to tell me they have changed the GUI yet again , and it will be 3 more months. But....you can get a $25.00 coupon discount.
What about the other 3 coupons for $150 ???

Someone with real business sense and customer relations experience should take them over.

Mike


I sent them at least 3 emails with questions regarding the Olive One and did not receive a single response.

Thus, i will not be buying any of their products. I just don't trust them.

jimzak
2014-01-14, 17:46
I saw on their Facebook page that they are shipping preorders in the months of February and March.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

GeeJay
2014-01-14, 19:32
Usually, when a company is missing deadlines AND unresponsive, that's a sign of trouble. Even if they ship a few units, my instincts are to wait for awhile before jumping on boardassuming the product even meets my needs.

Many thanks to the last few posters for confirming what I already thought.

GeeJay
2014-03-04, 20:18
Looks like this thing may get off the ground yet:

https://olivemediainc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201101764--Update-Mar-4-2014-Manufacturing-of-the-ONE-is-revving-up

GeeJay
2014-05-31, 11:03
Still monitoring....

Communication has been awful. They haven't updated their Facebook page (where they encourage folks to go for news) since March. If you check out the Olive One user forum, you'll see a lot of people asking for updates on delivery. Many of these folks contributed to the original Kickstarter campaign back in 2011. It leads one to believe that Olive has been having problems on the manufacturing end. That surprises me given that Olive is an established company. But then, they did raise money through Kickstarter....

The good news, however, is that some units appear to be getting delivered. A few user reviews have been posted, although not enough detail to get a good feel for the product's capabilities. Assuming these are legitimate users, at least they aren't encountering setup issues.

Checking out the feature requests, Olive is still working on device sync. I think the software is pretty rudimentary, too (compared to LMS and it's suite of plug-ins). This is based on several questions I posted on the Facebook page about features I consider "must haves" for any device I adopt. The company at least is asking for input on future development, so if they ever get this thing off the ground, maybe they'll do a better job on that front than I've seen with Sonos.

I'd be curious if anyone has observed anything different than what I've seen to date?

bibendum
2014-06-15, 18:39
I thought I'd confirm that Olive are slowly starting to send out units to Indiegogo backers and that I received mine in Australia last week.
Olive are being tight lipped about how many units have been shipped but they are asking those who have got a unit to post their experiences on Zendesk.

At some stage they moved manufacture to Taiwan (they originally claimed it would made in the US) and ran into major problems with the casting of the aluminium case.
My feeling is they became swamped with manufacturing off shore which has lead to lengthy delays and they didn't want to admit this to increasingly frustrated backers who had provided over half a million dollars for development. Instead they made more and more (inevitably broken) promises about imminent shipment.

The player itself is a pretty good unit, much more premium feeling than a Squeezebox (I had two original slim devices and a later Logitech duo) but it isn't a patch on the flexibility, usability and user friendliness of the Squeezebox so far.
Olive have promised to release an open SDK 'some time in the future' which might improve things if they can get enough momentum going. They have also been regularly updating the SW and slowly it is becoming more useful. They have also asked owners for feature requests - time will tell if they all get implemented but a few have so far.

If Olive can survive this experiment in crowd funding, they might just end up with a really good product but they'll need the support of their customers and they have pissed off a lot of them already.

GeeJay
2014-06-16, 20:32
Thanks for the update, bibendum. I've been following the comments on their website and noticed the same things you've observed. The manufacturing issues you've mentioned make sense...once you switch to overseas factories it is really tough to stay on top of build quality, particularly if you don't have experience in the country of manufacture.

I'm hoping Olive gets past this and finally start building some momentum. They really need to prioritize such basic functionality as device sync (I guess they have to get to the point where they can ship more than one unit per customer first) before they can move on to some of the more advanced capabilities we enjoy with our SBs.

I'm now following several user forums for devices that *might* be suitable replacements for my SBs, should I need to go that route. It is simply amazing how not one of them contain the entire package at a similar price point...primarily deficiencies on the software side. Maybe, just maybe, some commercial outfit will negotiate a licensing deal with Logitech and use LMS as the basis for another product.

Then I won't have to follow all these other companies that can't seem to quite get there!