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chenrikson
2012-12-12, 08:06
TechCrunch and others are today reporting on the upcoming Olive One music player, which appears to perform many of the functions the Touch does in a very high quality way. Interesting design, and they claim top-notch DAC's and a wide range of playback formats. $400 in July (or so). Check it out.

saeyedoc
2012-12-12, 08:19
The article I found stated that for now it doesn't come with analog or digital outputs, just speaker outputs from a 32 w/ch stereo amp. If they do come out with digital outputs, it could be a SB replacement.

Julf
2012-12-12, 08:29
The article I found stated that for now it doesn't come with analog or digital outputs, just speaker outputs from a 32 w/ch stereo amp. If they do come out with digital outputs, it could be a SB replacement.

And it seems to have it's own, very limited, internal storage, instead of playing from the network. Does it do multi-zone and synchronisation? I don't see it providing the functionality of LMS + a bunch of SBs.

azinck3
2012-12-12, 08:40
Took me a while to find the tech specs: http://www.myoliveone.com/Ones/tech_specs

It does not have a traditional digital out. You could do Miracast streaming to a box with a form of digital out but a quick glance at the Miracast standard seems to indicate that most devices will probably only support 16-bit 48khz audio which means you're not going to get bit-perfect output. And I don't know what other transformations might happen in the Miracast pipeline.


And it seems to have it's own, very limited, internal storage, instead of playing from the network. Does it do multi-zone and synchronisation? I don't see it providing the functionality of LMS + a bunch of SBs.

It does play from the network. Read the tech specs above. Looks like it supports UPnP.

It does claim to have some form of multi-zone support. It's not clear to me if they're just saying that you can get several of these for your house and play them separately or if they're talking about actual synchronization.

All that said, it looks like a pretty interesting device that might be making good trade-offs for the market it's trying to attract. The whole ecosystem has the advantage of being a clean-sheet design to integrate with the latest crop of protocols, standards and devices.

chenrikson
2012-12-12, 08:57
Thanks for the tie to the specs. I note that the One seems to provide Bluetooth and WiFi output as well as the Miracast and Speaker outs, unless I misread something there. Certainly a nice solid (6 lbs.) and attractive unit.

Nick_G
2012-12-12, 12:23
It does look interesting. A pity with all the blather about sound quality that there isn't a coaxial digital output.

Out of interest, do any of the other Olive streamers such as the 4HD have access to internet radio services in the same way the SBT does? I suppose I'm asking, are they roughly equivalent to a Transporter?

smiggs
2012-12-12, 15:35
It should be noted that this isn't a finished product at all. It's doing the the kickstarter model to get off the ground http://www.indiegogo.com//OliveONE The comments page reads like they are still designing:


Hey Colin and Chris, the ONE currently only has speaker outputs. However the board has been designed in a way that we can add analog and digital outputs, we would however need to provide a special adapter. We will think about it and put it up for vote later in the campaign.

If you read down the indiegogo page there was appear to be syncronisation:


If you have more than one room and we hope you do you can simply add ONE to each room and play the same or different songs. It takes one simple button-click to connect ONE to your network (via WPS).

Casual like almost as if it doesn't matter!

The spec sheet for "MusicOS" sounds like it could be extended to be a full on Squeezebox player:


Our Software Development Kit will allow developers to build the custom apps around your music experience at home. Our built-in community platform will allow you to vote on the apps you find valuable. The possibilities are endless: Live concert apps.Karaoke. DJ apps... and much more.

For my money it's pretty much spot on and they're presenting it like we have a chance to get on at the ground floor and influence how it all works, Squeezebox fans could jump on this and show Logitech what their missing.

froth
2012-12-12, 15:46
smiggs, you beat me to all the tech answers. From what I am reading it is almost as if this new Olive is focused to be the best of Sonos and Squeeze and at an affordable price. Now the devil is in the details but if they deliver on what they are saying it could be a pretty good solution. One issue I have is with the footprint of this thing. I have a few booms. One is in my kitchen on a counter. The one would be just too large to be put in the same place. Also right now they have no plans to ship with the ability to connect to your home stereo although they say the pieces are there to do it at a later date.

ajkidle
2012-12-12, 18:41
Reviewing their website just makes me sad that Logitech never knew what they were doing with Squeezebox. This Olive thing could be vaporware, but already it's got better marketing and design aesthetics than SB ever did.

I hope they're successful - the day will come when we'll all need to update our SB ecosystems. Hopefully a solution like this will be semi-mature before that day comes.

Nick_G
2012-12-13, 00:19
It would be great if Olive could use a VLC-based audio/media player as this app is free, open-source and can play just about anything. The latest version plays the brand-new Opus audio codec. I'm sure this approach would virtually eliminate questions like "why isn't x stream playing?" Is this possible in a hardware-based audio streaming device?

Tunein as the internet radio search portal would be great too.

Regards,
Nick

garym
2012-12-13, 05:02
It would be great if Olive could use a VLC-based audio/media player as this app is free, open-source and can play just about anything. The latest version plays the brand-new Opus audio codec. I'm sure this approach would virtually eliminate questions like "why isn't x stream playing?" Is this possible in a hardware-based audio streaming device?

Tunein as the internet radio search portal would be great too.

Regards,
Nick

foobar2000 is also a software player that can play basically anything (I think including the new Opus codec)

pippin
2012-12-13, 05:13
Finding a software player or codec usually is not the problem for a hardware manufacturer. Licensing and patents are.

This is less of an issue for open-source software players because you download and use them yourself as a user but a hardware vendor can't just ship these players, he would still have to get the licenses.

Also, VLC is under GPL which means you can't integrate it with proprietary software.

andynormancx
2012-12-13, 05:16
Though I see the VLC library is moving to LGPL

http://www.videolan.org/press/lgpl.html

toby10
2012-12-13, 05:19
Certainly glad to see another serious and experienced competitor uping the ante a bit, in both form and function. Sexy looking player too.

That said, Olive One is definitely following more closely to the Sonos model. I looked into Olive and the (then) very similar Yamaha MisicCast system years ago prior to coming to SqueezeBox. Back then both were way over priced and very limited in features and customization. Looks like the Olive One is a nice step in the right direction. But she ain't no SqueezeBox. ;)

My personal reservations:
- don't need a player with built in amps (i.e. SB3 or Touch)
- don't need another hard drive for my music collection (music must reside on the Olive HDD as additional hardware purchase, unless you want limited DLNA playback)
- don't need a cloud service in place of my existing PC HDD, but nice to offer it indeed, being third party Google cloud to boot
- price, I'd bet by release date the prices might be much higher (based on previous Olive pricing comparisons)
- need clarification on "playing same music on multiple players", likely is true Sync, but I'd like that confirmed
- need clarification on the Miracast (whatever that is)? i.e. TV must support Miracast to utilize DLNA functions (pics, videos, music)?

I think a smart move for Olive is to add an additional "Touch" like player where they take their existing player, remove the amps, and add the digital outs.

pippin
2012-12-13, 05:29
Though I see the VLC library is moving to LGPL

http://www.videolan.org/press/lgpl.html

Do you know more about the status of this? So far, the code is still under GPL, not LGPL and this "decision" was more than a year ago.
I think _all_ developers who have ever contributed have to agree to this and this was already the problem why they had to pull it from the App Store. VideoLAN had approved the App but some developers did not.

Nick_G
2012-12-13, 12:39
The more I read about the Olive One on their website the more appealing it is looking. I can see myself getting one next year.

The blurb says that that all you need to do to log on to your home wi-fi network is press a single button with no WEP/password activation required. That could be a game changer if true as I'm sure a lot of people are put off buying this sort of product because the idea of fiddling around with setting up a network scares them. It's also made of aluminium & glass which is better than plastic!

Olive specialise in network music players so hopefully this will be a great product.

Regards,
Nick

smiggs
2012-12-13, 16:01
The more I read about the Olive One on their website the more appealing it is looking. I can see myself getting one next year.

The blurb says that that all you need to do to log on to your home wi-fi network is press a single button with no WEP/password activation required. That could be a game changer if true as I'm sure a lot of people are put off buying this sort of product because the idea of fiddling around with setting up a network scares them. It's also made of aluminium & glass which is better than plastic!


That probably just means it has WPS compatibility which is great but it's hardly a killer feature as I've always found it more fiddly than passwords (WPA, WEP etc). I guess if it is useful to some that's great, these types of devices should be as get on a network as a desktop printer.

GeeJay
2012-12-13, 20:23
Looks like they are trying to raise capital, too. $200k, which doesn't seem like much to me.

Cool concept and design. I'm interested.

Mnyb
2012-12-13, 22:42
That probably just means it has WPS compatibility which is great but it's hardly a killer feature as I've always found it more fiddly than passwords (WPA, WEP etc). I guess if it is useful to some that's great, these types of devices should be as get on a network as a desktop printer.

And the router must have it to .

andynormancx
2012-12-14, 00:49
Do you know more about the status of this? So far, the code is still under GPL, not LGPL and this "decision" was more than a year ago.
I think _all_ developers who have ever contributed have to agree to this and this was already the problem why they had to pull it from the App Store. VideoLAN had approved the App but some developers did not.

I'm afraid not. I just remembered the seeing announcement somewhere and so Googled for it when I read this thread.

toby10
2012-12-14, 02:28
WPS is not very secure either. Easy & simple setup = insecure & vulnerable network. Best to disable WPS.
https://windowssecrets.com/top-story/routers-using-wps-are-intrinsically-unsafe/

Mnyb
2012-12-14, 02:36
The sync and gapless issue is interesting .

it's fabled to be possible with upnp/dlna but not many practical applications devices exists .

I think linnhas solved gapless for upnp .

next Q would that work with another upnp player that also has gapless support and sync them ?

amcluesent
2012-12-16, 06:12
Certainly has potential.

I'd design it with analogue and S/PDIF outputs in every unit, then have a 1Tb disk or T-Amp as snap-in modules for folks who want in-build storage or amp. Of course Logitech could have done this 2 years ago, and with a proven s/w stack but they chose to flush Squeezebox.

PHiX
2013-01-05, 07:34
Coax out is in, analogue out is being investigated.

NFLnut
2013-01-06, 17:06
My personal reservations:
- don't need a player with built in amps (i.e. SB3 or Touch)
- don't need another hard drive for my music collection (music must reside on the Olive HDD as additional hardware purchase, unless you want limited DLNA playback)
- don't need a cloud service in place of my existing PC HDD, but nice to offer it indeed, being third party Google cloud to boot
- price, I'd bet by release date the prices might be much higher (based on previous Olive pricing comparisons)
- need clarification on "playing same music on multiple players", likely is true Sync, but I'd like that confirmed
- need clarification on the Miracast (whatever that is)? i.e. TV must support Miracast to utilize DLNA functions (pics, videos, music)?

I think a smart move for Olive is to add an additional "Touch" like player where they take their existing player, remove the amps, and add the digital outs.


I could not agree with this post any more. The "One" looks like a beautiful player, and the software looks nice. But I don't want speakers. I have about $8,000 worth of speakers that I think might sound 'slightly' better. I don't want my music "locked down." Just give me a "One" with digital outs, and leave out the Facebook, Twitter, social nonsense. I just want a replacement for the Squeezebox to play my music that isn't obsolete.

olive_media
2013-01-07, 10:26
The article I found stated that for now it doesn't come with analog or digital outputs, just speaker outputs from a 32 w/ch stereo amp. If they do come out with digital outputs, it could be a SB replacement.

Hey there,

We've recently added digital coaxial output to the Olive ONE's specs. Check out the official announcement on our Indiegogo page: http://www.indiegogo.com/OliveONE/x/1849709?c=activity

olive_media
2013-01-07, 10:28
I could not agree with this post any more. The "One" looks like a beautiful player, and the software looks nice. But I don't want speakers. I have about $8,000 worth of speakers that I think might sound 'slightly' better. I don't want my music "locked down." Just give me a "One" with digital outs, and leave out the Facebook, Twitter, social nonsense. I just want a replacement for the Squeezebox to play my music that isn't obsolete.

The Olive ONE is actually compatible with almost all passive speakers (not just Olive speakers). Here at our San Francisco office we have ONE directly connected to B&W 804Ds and B&W CM9s and they sound amazing.

garym
2013-01-07, 11:22
The Olive ONE is actually compatible with almost all passive speakers (not just Olive speakers). Here at our San Francisco office we have ONE directly connected to B&W 804Ds and B&W CM9s and they sound amazing.

I don't think anyone disputes that this can sound very good. But you have to keep in mind that folks that have invested tens of thousands of dollars into Dac/preamp/amp/Speaker home systems are not likely to be happy about bypassing their beloved Dac/preamp/amp for the internal DAC and amp of this networked music player. The fact that you've now added S/PDIF coax out (so that once *can* feed their own DAC/preamp/amp) basically solves this issue. Although many would argue that it would be nice to have a cheaper unit that does NOT contain the built in amp for those that don't need the amp.

gruntwolla
2013-01-07, 14:08
I don't think anyone disputes that this can sound very good. But you have to keep in mind that folks that have invested tens of thousands of dollars into Dac/preamp/amp/Speaker home systems are not likely to be happy about bypassing their beloved Dac/preamp/amp for the internal DAC and amp of this networked music player. The fact that you've now added S/PDIF coax out (so that once *can* feed their own DAC/preamp/amp) basically solves this issue. Although many would argue that it would be nice to have a cheaper unit that does NOT contain the built in amp for those that don't need the amp.


Unlike many on these forums, my "hifi" , although reasonable, could never be classed as high end, and I have in fact been saving for quite a while now to upgrade it. Logitech's abandonment of the Squeezebox line has concentrated my mind further on what road I wish to take.
I have decided to invest in a pair of Bowers & Wilkins speakers - either the CM9's or PM1's, and yesterday put my name down for a pair of Olive Ones. The combination of beautiful hardware, clean lines, audiophile components, open source software, and finally the fact they will do virtually all that I currently do with my Squeezeboxes has convinced me. Add in the wife approval factor and the fact there is still ( at present ) a healthy market for second hand Squeezeboxes, I personally think it's a no brainer.
Roll on July

bigbossman
2013-01-07, 21:03
Hey there,

We've recently added digital coaxial output to the Olive ONE's specs. Check out the official announcement on our Indiegogo page: http://www.indiegogo.com/OliveONE/x/1849709?c=activity

This is starting to sound awesome from Olive, a real Squeezebox replacement contender. I had the 04 & 06HD for review a while back - these guys know what they're doing.
And they listen to their public :- a very good sign :-)

NFLnut
2013-01-11, 19:18
The Olive ONE is actually compatible with almost all passive speakers (not just Olive speakers). Here at our San Francisco office we have ONE directly connected to B&W 804Ds and B&W CM9s and they sound amazing.


Like Gary said .. My speakers are powered by some very expensive preamps and amps. I spent a lot of time and research into matching them all for the sound that I desired and I am not interested in anything other than those powering my speakers. Just give us a digital out (preferably optical/SPDIF since I have that run in my walls everywhere), and I may very likely put my name on the list.

audiomuze
2013-01-12, 00:55
IMHO Touch/SB3 type hardware incorporating a DAC needn't need to be part of the next solution. Any external DAC of your choosing should be the receiving end of the audio stream, and the streaming can be handled by a modified/community build LMS that outputs PCM WAV across a network. All that's needed in-between is a network enabled hardware device that accepts an LPCM audio stream and passes it on via a low jitter digital/ optical output. LMS as it stands already offers a great UI (yes, of course it could be a lot better), ability to interact and stream LPCM WAV using a network layer, ability to decode mp3, aiff, flac etc. I truly don't see any need to even have to have access to the firmware with or without the licensed codec's removed.

garym
2013-01-12, 06:06
Like Gary said .. My speakers are powered by some very expensive preamps and amps. I spent a lot of time and research into matching them all for the sound that I desired and I am not interested in anything other than those powering my speakers. Just give us a digital out (preferably optical/SPDIF since I have that run in my walls everywhere), and I may very likely put my name on the list.

they reported somewhere recently (and in a private email to me) that the upcoming version does include a S/PDIF coax digital out. That's a good thing! Another thing I was asking about was a headphone jack. I use my booms as bedside radios and often listen via headphones late night or early mornings. They suggested using bluetooth headphones, but that sounds a bit clunky to me (and I use a little padded "pillow speaker" that I'm not sure is available as bluetooth without some added equipment to connect it to.

edited (accidentally said does NOT include S/PDIF, but meant to say DOES INCLUDE)

Nick_G
2013-01-12, 10:31
they reported somewhere recently (and in a private email to me) that the upcoming version does not include a S/PDIF coax digital out. That's a good thing! Another thing I was asking about was a headphone jack. I use my booms as bedside radios and often listen via headphones late night or early mornings. They suggested using bluetooth headphones, but that sounds a bit clunky to me (and I use a little padded "pillow speaker" that I'm not sure is available as bluetooth without some added equipment to connect it to.

I thought that they were now including a coax/digital out? If not then I wouldn't really be interested in getting one. I have my SBT routed via the DAC in my CD recorder as it seems to improve the sound quality on high-quality streams. This is how I'd be using any SB replacement.

garym
2013-01-12, 10:32
I thought that they were now including a coax/digital out? If not then I wouldn't really be interested in getting one. I have my SBT routed via the DAC in my CD recorder as it seems to improve the sound quality on high-quality streams. This is how I'd be using any SB replacement.

sorry, typo. I meant that they now DO INCLUDE a s/pdif coax digital out. Sorry

Mnyb
2013-01-12, 14:02
Can it be had without crappy pwm amp ;) I do want a source only version , but let's sit it out and see how they do all other stuff like handling a music libray lossles et all , do they intend to develop thier own dlna server or use one the aviable ones ?

Just leave it to customer to provide an dlna server is not good enough as they usually need special tweaks to sync properly etc ,is not linn doing their own ad on to ,or version off some software to make things work for real ?

Nick_G
2013-01-12, 14:37
sorry, typo. I meant that they now DO INCLUDE a s/pdif coax digital out. Sorry

Phew! You had me worried there...

NFLnut
2013-01-14, 12:29
Actually, in my previous post I meant to say "TOSLINK," not coax connection. I have TOSLINK cables run throughout my walls.

garym
2013-01-14, 13:42
Actually, in my previous post I meant to say "TOSLINK," not coax connection. I have TOSLINK cables run throughout my walls.

in my private email communication with Olive they specifically said they were adding S/PDIF coax but would have to think more about TOSLINK or USB digital output.

NFLnut
2013-01-16, 00:07
I would like to hang it on a wall, like a picture, and have control of it there. I don't want it sitting flat on a surface. Hopefully, they will accommodate those of us who wish to do this. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere if this is possible.

bossanova808
2013-01-16, 00:14
See bottom of this page - http://www.myoliveone.com/Ones/roadmap

...although it's sloped so won't be quite like that unless they provide maybe some sort of mounting plate that flattens it?

garym
2013-01-16, 05:26
See bottom of this page - http://www.myoliveone.com/Ones/roadmap

...although it's sloped so won't be quite like that unless they provide maybe some sort of mounting plate that flattens it?

I would also want to have it tilted in some manner (not flat) for use as a bedside player.

NFLnut
2013-01-22, 12:03
I just took the plunge on the ONE, instead of looking at spending > $500 on a used Touch. For the last couple of years, I had thought about buying a Touch, just mostly for the color screen. Not for the "Touch" control. I just don't go over to the Squeezebox to play music. I am usually controlling from the web UI or the Controller. But since the Squeezebox is (apparently) a dead platform (thanks a lot Logitech!), I am moving on. I will still use my Squeezebox and Controller in a bedroom, but if the ONE is everything they claim it will be (even subtracting about 15% that won't happen), I see it as the Squeezebox replacement and it will replace my 6 year old Squeezebox as my living room/housewide music controller. Plus, it's just cool looking. The Sonos never interested me .. plus until recently it was just too darn expensive when there were equal/better alternatives like the Squeezebox family.

I have loved the Squeezebox since the SlimDevices days. But Squeezebox Server has been a love/hate deal for me. It WAS the best thing out there in its day. But there were a fair number of shortcomings, and the UI and server would lock up on me so many times when I just wanted to change a song. If Logitech has plans to come out with a Squeezebox replacement (and not talking about the new, crippled SB radio) they had better do it quick. They will lose out their core followers (US) to new competition like the ONE.