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View Full Version : I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE! It doesn't look good ...



castalla
2012-11-01, 18:35
Today's SB outage gives us a taste of the future without MySB.com. Switching to local LMS, the only radio app which I could use was BBC iPlayer. Tunein is crippled and can't get playable streams.

I didn't test other apps & plugins .... but it was a frustrating experience enough.

I wonder how many Radio users (without local LMS access) are tearing their hair out ....

Jeff52
2012-11-01, 19:04
I wonder how many Radio users (without local LMS access) are tearing their hair out ....

It is what it is. Without MySB.com you will just have to access the streams by the url via LMS. So quit tearing your hair out. It is not a good thing to do if you value your personal appearance.

castalla
2012-11-01, 19:10
You are too sanguine! How many ordinary Radio users:

1. Have LMS installed on a local server?

2. Have any idea what stream url they need to enter in the appropriate section of LMS?

At the very least, Tunein should be independent of mysb.com. As far as I know, Tunein on other systems is not dependent on a 3rd party connection?

erland
2012-11-01, 23:36
Today's SB outage gives us a taste of the future without MySB.com.

Squeezebox maintained by Logitech isn't the long term future, we just need it to live long enough until someone else (or Logitech) comes up with something better, hopefully Logitech will keep MySB.com alive until this happens. For what it's worth, UE Smart Radio users would be in a much worse situation, they wouldn't even be able to play local music if the central uesmartradio.com service goes down.

That being said, it's not impossible that you might be able to use your Squeezebox hardware in a future solution, the Touch and Radio can be used with custom firmware after all, but I'm pretty sure the future primarily will be based on other hardware, it can't be based primarily on Squeezebox hardware since new Squeezebox hardware isn't sold anymore.

ModelCitizen
2012-11-01, 23:43
I think you'll find that most here think that Logitech's decision to make the functionality of their players so heavily dependent on MSB was an atrocious one.

At the time they made it (during development of the duet, radio?) All the beta testers advised against it. I don't think that anyone save some stupid Logitech manager thought it was a good idea.

However it is the sort of short-sighted, short-term, immediate-revenue-led decision we have come to expect from this mediocre company.

erland
2012-11-01, 23:43
At the very least, Tunein should be independent of mysb.com. As far as I know, Tunein on other systems is not dependent on a 3rd party connection?

It's not a problem to have third party streaming services depending on a central cloud server, if the software isn't maintained it doesn't matter if it's installed on your local device/computer or in a central cloud server, if it isn't maintained it will stop working either way. A local Tunein plugin which isn't working wouldn't be any better than a non working Tunein module on a central server.

The general issue with many streaming services is that you aren't allowed to publish any details of their API, in many cases you have to sign a NDA to get access to the API, Tunein is one example of this. So if it's installed locally it would likely have to be a closed source module which is still maintained by Logitech and if that stops working due to a Tunein API change and Logitech doesn't want to fix it we wouldn't be in any better situation.

tin
2012-11-02, 02:22
I think you'll find that most here think that Logitech's decision to make the functionality of their players so heavily dependent on MSB was an atrocious one.

At the time they made it (during development of the duet, radio?) All the beta testers advised against it. I don't think that anyone save some stupid Logitech manager thought it was a good idea.

However it is the sort of short-sighted, short-term, immediate-revenue-led decision we have come to expect from this mediocre company.

+1

IMHO the abandonment of squeezebox is a decision based on how the product line is doing generally, but how the product line is doing generally is a function of poor management and decisions taken with the line since Logitech took it over. Particularly the quality of the software. I dunno even how my boxes are supposed to work anymore, I just press buttons and hope it does what I think it should.

If this happened to UE, I am sure there'll be a lot going back to the shop. Maybe the UE central software whatever-it-is is a lot more reliable but seeing as logitech failed to make MSB reliable/userfriendly (and their solution was to abandon!?) I am sure UE will be a similar mess.

AndrewFG
2012-11-02, 02:45
... Logitech's decision to make the functionality of their players so heavily dependent on MSB was an atrocious one.
... I don't think that anyone save some stupid Logitech manager thought it was a good idea.
... it is the sort of short-sighted, short-term, immediate-revenue-led decision we have come to expect from this mediocre company.

The trend is called "Cloud Computing" ...
... and all the marketing lemmings want to (nay have to) plaster this acronym on their products ...

The good news (for lemming-kind) is that not all lemmings plunge to an icy death; a few always make it to start the next generation...

ButC
2012-11-02, 03:14
Is it possible to connect a smartphone, as an input source, to the Squeezebox Touch? I was thinking that, post-mysb.com, if one could connect an old smartphone which can play TuneIn Radio or Spotify or any other service, then one could remotely control that phone with ones other smartphone. Is it possible to connect a smartphone to the Touch?... But then again it would be easier to just attach the old smartphone directly to the receiver, wouldn't it?

bpa
2012-11-02, 04:00
Today's SB outage gives us a taste of the future without MySB.com. Switching to local LMS, the only radio app which I could use was BBC iPlayer. Tunein is crippled and can't get playable streams.

I didn't test other apps & plugins .... but it was a frustrating experience enough.

LMS & Tunein without mysb.com works OK for me - at the moment this problem seems to isolated to Tune-in playing BBC station by UK users unless other users have more info.

toby10
2012-11-02, 05:06
Is it possible to connect a smartphone, as an input source, to the Squeezebox Touch?

no


........ be easier to just attach the old smartphone directly to the receiver, wouldn't it?

yes

garym
2012-11-02, 06:32
You are too sanguine! How many ordinary Radio users:

1. Have LMS installed on a local server?

2. Have any idea what stream url they need to enter in the appropriate section of LMS?

At the very least, Tunein should be independent of mysb.com. As far as I know, Tunein on other systems is not dependent on a 3rd party connection?

I'm not an ordinary user, but from the beginning I have always found and saved URLs of my favorite internet radio streams as FAVORITES in my local LMS so that I would always be independent of any app. Another reason is that I use these URLs also in Foobar2000 (my windows audio player on my laptop). This said, I'd be very disappointed if I couldn't access MOG or something similar and my wife would hate losing SiriusXM.

bonze
2012-11-02, 08:40
LMS & Tunein without mysb.com works OK for me - at the moment this problem seems to isolated to Tune-in playing BBC station by UK users unless other users have more info.
Just tried various stations - I'm in the UK.
Can't connect to mysb, but any stations I tried worked including some BBC.

I tried via saved favourites and via the menu, Radio > Local > London > All Stations.

BBC2, BBC4, BBC6 all worked OK - reported as File format: AAC

Mnyb
2012-11-02, 09:52
It's not a problem to have third party streaming services depending on a central cloud server, if the software isn't maintained it doesn't matter if it's installed on your local device/computer or in a central cloud server, if it isn't maintained it will stop working either way. A local Tunein plugin which isn't working wouldn't be any better than a non working Tunein module on a central server.

The general issue with many streaming services is that you aren't allowed to publish any details of their API, in many cases you have to sign a NDA to get access to the API, Tunein is one example of this. So if it's installed locally it would likely have to be a closed source module which is still maintained by Logitech and if that stops working due to a Tunein API change and Logitech doesn't want to fix it we wouldn't be in any better situation.

Yes it will , if the central server goes down it's dead for everyone if it runs locally on everyone's server a failure only affects one machine , the slow death of lack maintainnance is another issue .
In an ideal world a local plugin would be open source'sh and not depend on single company to live on .

Tune in may have been a bad example if they as you say don't allow access to thier API without NDA and other draconian measures.

But is thier any constants in internet radio it's still a very immature bussiness , for example they are allowed to change URL constantly if a teristial station changed it's frequency haphazardly they would be forced to shut down :)
An there seems be no standards and services comes and goes weekly , there is always some new semi legal " free " streaming service starting up etc it's a zoo .

erland
2012-11-02, 11:24
Yes it will , if the central server goes down it's dead for everyone if it runs locally on everyone's server a failure only affects one machine , the slow death of lack maintainnance is another issue .

Correct, but it would really just make it work a bit longer, if it's not maintained it's going to break eventually, it's just a matter of time.
The advantage of being able to play music without a computer powered on is big for most people, because most people are getting tablets and wireless connected laptops these days and neither is really optimized for usage as a local server.



Tune in may have been a bad example if they as you say don't allow access to thier API without NDA and other draconian measures.

Most streaming services I've looked at requires a NDA if Logitech would do it, the reason is that some allows non commercial usage without a NDA, but if Logitech or some other company earning money on music streaming equipment does it it's going to be considered commercial and would need a NDA. An free plugin by an individual third party developer would probably not be considered to be commercial and would be possible without a NDA if the streaming service have a public API available. TuneIn only expose its official API to commercial partners, but as mentioned by others previously in the thread some TuneIn streams might work without mysqueezebox.com as I've understood it.

oddball
2012-11-02, 11:27
I'm new to the forum as I had only recently bought a SB Radio & Touch after many years of thinking of getting an SB device. Can't believe how it's turned out!

I mainly listen to Spotify but also a couple of Internet stations including 6 Music - Can anyone shed any light on the following:

1) I get that the Radio stations could still be accessed directly by url but what solutions are there for Spotify support if MySB.com goes down or is pulled completely?

2) Is someone working to mod to the operating system to make it work independently of MySB.com or via an alternative url?

If it could be made to be independent on Logitech there seems to be a really solid community to keep these great devices stable and usable, would be keen to contribute if helps.


cheers,

Simon

Mnyb
2012-11-02, 11:35
Spotify use triodes spotify plugin for the LMS server ,but configure it to show up in the radios menu instead of apps .
This should work even today, drat ! That I did not took the opportunity to try when mysb.com was down.

erland
2012-11-02, 11:44
1) I get that the Radio stations could still be accessed directly by url but what solutions are there for Spotify support if MySB.com goes down or is pulled completely?

There is a third party Spotify which you can install in LMS running on a computer on your local network, this will work without mysqueezebox.com.



2) Is someone working to mod to the operating system to make it work independently of MySB.com or via an alternative url?

I can't go into any details regarding this at this time, but I generally believe in the market forces and if there are users available that are willing to pay for something, someone is eventually going to provide a satisfying solution to the problem.



If it could be made to be independent on Logitech there seems to be a really solid community to keep these great devices stable and usable, would be keen to contribute if helps.

I don't think you should expect someone to provide a long term solution for free, maintaining and supporting a similar solution either as locally installed software or as a third party cloud server is likely going to require too much work for someone to provide it for free without any way to earn money on it. So there need to be some business perspective behind it to make it a good long term solution.

oddball
2012-11-02, 11:49
Spotify use triodes spotify plugin for the LMS server ,but configure it to show up in the radios menu instead of apps .
This should work even today, drat ! That I did not took the opportunity to try when mysb.com was down.

At the moment when I test my Network connection on the either device it says that "the connection to mysqueezebox.com is not ok" (understatement!) - Is the connection working for others?

If I can't connect am I able to install the Triode Spotify Plugin?

erland
2012-11-02, 11:55
If I can't connect am I able to install the Triode Spotify Plugin?

You might have to configure his repository URL directly since the default repository url's are hosted on mysqueezebox.com at the moment.
His direct repository url is:


http://triodeplugins.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/repo.xml

Mnyb
2012-11-02, 11:55
At the moment when I test my Network connection on the either device it says that "the connection to mysqueezebox.com is not ok" (understatement!) - Is the connection working for others?

If I can't connect am I able to install the Triode Spotify Plugin?

Ok I already have it installed on my LMS server .
Do you run a local LMS server ,if you don't you can't use this plugin
It may be a setback to be required to run a local software on a NAS or computer for some people .

Maybe today is not the best day to install, wonder if you still could add plugin repos without mysb.com I don't know which one in this case

oddball
2012-11-02, 11:56
There is a third party Spotify which you can install in LMS running on a computer on your local network, this will work without mysqueezebox.com.

Would ideally like a solution that would not require running a local server



I can't go into any details regarding this at this time, but I generally believe in the market forces and if there are users available that are willing to pay for something, someone is eventually going to provide a satisfying solution to the problem.

I don't think you should expect someone to provide a long term solution for free, maintaining and supporting a similar solution either as locally installed software or as a third party cloud server is likely going to require too much work for someone to provide it for free without any way to earn money on it. So there need to be some business perspective behind it to make it a good long term solution.

Agree, would still be willing to help in producing a solution.

bpa
2012-11-02, 12:32
Just tried various stations - I'm in the UK.
Can't connect to mysb, but any stations I tried worked including some BBC.

I tried via saved favourites and via the menu, Radio > Local > London > All Stations.

BBC2, BBC4, BBC6 all worked OK - reported as File format: AAC

Castalla's problems seem to be with the BBC WMA streams not the AAC ones. Did you do anything special to get AAC rather than WMA ? such as disable WMA native.

bonze
2012-11-02, 15:29
Castalla's problems seem to be with the BBC WMA streams not the AAC ones. Did you do anything special to get AAC rather than WMA ? such as disable WMA native.
Not that I'm aware of, in fact I can't see any formats disabled in Advanced > File Types.
Isn't AAC higher up the food chain??

My BBC6 favourite:

http://opml.radiotime.com/Tune.ashx?id=s44491&formats=aac,ogg,mp3,wmpro,wma,wmvoice,real&partnerId=16&serial=.......................

(I blanked the &serial part as I'm not sure if it is tied to me somehow)

bobkoure
2012-11-03, 18:22
... drat ! That I did not took the opportunity to try when mysb.com was down.
You can just change the IP address mysb resolves to, either in the hosts file of the server or, if you have a firewall that can intercept DNS requests, there.

Mnyb
2012-11-03, 19:56
You can just change the IP address mysb resolves to, either in the hosts file of the server or, if you have a firewall that can intercept DNS requests, there.

It solved itself, i got the oportunity to try , triode spotify works just fine without mysb.com